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Now who do you think were the greatest empires ever in the history of the world. And I must admit that there have been some pretty good ones over time.
I say first off
1. Viking Empire; it was big, and it the Vikings were the dominant people for many hundreds of years. They were the ones that destroyed the Romans weren't they?
2. British Empire
3. Roman Empire
4. Ottoman Empire
5. American Empire
@tt!tud3 old chap, might I suggest that you invest in a history book or three and read them carefully ;)
no such animal. The Vikings were not imperialists, they went in for a bit of plundering and so on, but that was de riguer for the times. They were actually traders, colonists and farmers by nature. They never had an "Emperor" and their kings were not fully in control. The concept of absolute monarchy was alien to them.Quote:
Viking Empire
................should I move this to tech humour? The entire political structure of the US precludes them from imperialism. Incidentally, sticking your nose in where it is not wanted is NOT imperialism.Quote:
American Empire
And there are a few other contenders:
1. Spain
2. Portugal
3. France
4. Mongols
5. China
6. Egypt
7. Persia
8. Moguls
And the Vikings never even met the Romans, by several hundred years
:D
Yah, what nihil says....start here...To Rule The Earth
#1 British
#2 Soviet
#3 Mongol
Mostly because of land area and the period.
The Roman Empire ended because they were pooped and were open to outside invasions from the Germanic peoples (former serfs/slaves, people who didn't like the Romans) and they saw an opportunity to plunder the bloated and has been Roman Empire....
Another read:Roman Empire
I had to laugh at the idea that Vikings had any sort of an empire, I suppose some huts on the eastcoast of Scotland or Ireland might qualify for foreign land ownership???? The Vikings were mainly interested in taking what wasn't theirs, and pillaging/raping (this is where these terms originated, long before Pirates).... :p
LOL @ Nihil... your always saying that Im old chap... :D
The Viking people are believed to have started in Scandanavia connected to Germanic people
Could the Visigoths be the Vikings later on, because the Vikings are just a romantic name.
Thanks, dalek that list included all the other ones that I mentioned................"history is forever" is it not? :D
I would correct you on the Vikings though. I was born and raised in the city of York. It was a Roman fortress/garrison town and was called Eboracum. Subsequently it became a Viking settlement called Yorvik ("Alas! poor Yorvik, I knew him well, Horatio" William Shakespeare: Hamlet) and the name got corrupted to "York"
Now, my wife is from the west coast of Ireland, and was born in the city of Limerick. That was also a Viking settlement. Her capital city (Dublin), and my Grandmother's birthplace, is on the east coast, and was also a large Viking settlement. Please remember that they were a maritime nation, when those were very rare..........they had the Bawlz to cross the "poison sea" (the North Sea) in "big rowing boats" :D
Their style was to create small, stable farming and agricultural "trading stations" once this had been done they would just trade with the hinterland. This was mutually beneficial.
Much later, the European imperialists did much the same thing......a small enclave for shipping and trade. Goa, on the west coats of India is a good example of a Portuguese "trading outlet" of this type.
OK...........much later on, and China, we had free ports?
:)
Hey nihil, I was speaking rather loosley about the vikings, I do know quite a bit about how they used to roam up and down both coasts of England and Ireland,(and go after those pesky monks) and eventually to Iceland, then Greenland and then whoops Newfoundland......or would that be Vinland ... :pQuote:
I would correct you on the Vikings though. I was born and raised in the city of York. It was a Roman fortress/garrison town and was called Eboracum. Subsequently it became a Viking settlement called Yorvik ("Alas! poor Yorvik, I knew him well, Horatio" William Shakespeare: Hamlet) and the name got corrupted to "York"
We still have the argument of who discovered North America first, was it in fact Eric the red or John Cabot.....the plot thickens.....I would go with Eric, as they have found the remains of Viking settlements in Newfoundland, so if they made it that far, it is quite conceivable they made it as far as Nova Scotia and maybe beyond?????....:-)
What are you saying? I played Civilization, I know how things are. Don't try to fool me. :DQuote:
Originally posted here by nihil
And the Vikings never even met the Romans, by several hundred years
:D
Depending upon the definition of an Empire...there is quite a few that can be added to these lists...I agree the Vikings were never an Empire...however...there are two ways to define an Empire...
1. A colonial power...eg. an expansionist Nation
and...
2. A cultural power...eg. an overwhelming or far-reaching culture
Under the second definition Greece and America ( as two examples ) would be considered Empires as their cultures were/are far reaching and in some cases over-whelming...the Sioux, the Aztec, and the Incas might also fit this bill.
The Vikings would not fit in either category...they were not expansionist, and their culture was not adopted by or consumed by other Nations.
Eg ;)
@tt!tud3 If you are really interested in History, and don't want to get books, then go to this site Timelines and bookmark it.....there is a wealth of information out there regarding anything to do with History, it's a huuuuuge subject.... ;)Quote:
Originally posted here by @tt!tud3
LOL @ Nihil... your always saying that Im old chap... :D
The Viking people are believed to have started in Scandanavia connected to Germanic people
Could the Visigoths be the Vikings later on, because the Vikings are just a romantic name.
Greatest empires (In order IMHO):
Alexander's, which is the reason they call him 'The Great'.
Constantine's, Caesar's, Brittania, The Ottomans, and finally Napoleon's.
The rest weren't empires.
Hey dalek my friend,
Are we talking about that part of North America responsible for the "Northern War of Economic Agression?"...............Quote:
We still have the argument of who discovered North America first, was it in fact Eric the red or John Cabot
I am sure that the Vikings discovered it at an early stage.............but being a civilised people they kept it quiet :D
On a serious note, the Vikings did colonise in the sense of trading posts and local colonies. They mostly used timber (lumber) in their structures, so there are fewer remains than the Romans left.
Hah! my 122,000 ton thermonuclear powered attack carriers are coming to have a word with you :pQuote:
What are you saying? I played Civilization, I know how things are. Don't try to fool me.
Actually, they were colonialist rather than expansionist, and they did export cultural traits, albeit not deliberately. Old farmers over here still count sheep and cattle in the Norse language.Quote:
The Vikings would not fit in either category...they were not expansionist, and their culture was not adopted by or consumed by other Nations.
I also must apologise............I left the Dutch out of the imperial nations list.
:)
Lol, this explains why Columbus when he ran into one of those caribbean islands thought he had discovered the far East??? :pQuote:
but being a civilised people they kept it quiet
Hrm, this thread seems alittle premature. How about you wait for two more decades and get back to this topic once I'm finished, ok? Mua ha ha ha ha ha ha!
You guys are all worng it was st Brendan who dicovered america. But like Eric he had the sense to keep it quiet.
brendan voyage
Quote:
Historians relate that Brendan was born about 484 A.D. near Tralee in County Kerry. He was ordained by Bishop Erc and sailed about northwest Europe spreading the Christian faith and founding monasteries, the largest at Clonfert, County Galway, where he was buried in 577 A.D. at the age of 93.
The account of Brendan’s voyage contained a detailed description of the construction of his boat which was not unlike the currachs still made in County Kerry today. Skeptics could not accept that such a fragile vessel could possibly sail in the open sea. Several passages in the legend also seemed incredible—they were “raised up on the back of sea monsters”, they “passed by crystals that rose up to the sky”, and were “pelted with flaming, foul smelling rocks by the inhabitants of a large island on their route”. They finally arrived at the beautiful land they called “Promised Land of the Saints.” They explored until they came to a great river that divided the land. The journey of Brendan and his fellow monks took seven years. The return trip was probably the longest part of the odyssey.
In 1976, Tim Severin, a British navigation scholar embarked from Brandon Creek on the Dingle peninsula in a carrach that he constructed using the details described by Brendan. His goal was to determine if the voyage of Brendan and his fellow monks was possible. They tanned ox-hides with oak bark, stretched them across the wood frame, sewed them with leather thread and smeared the hides with animal fat which would impart water resistance. Examination of nautical charts led Severin to believe that Brendan’s route would be governed by the prevailing winds that would take him across the northernmost part of the Atlantic. This would take him close to Iceland and Greenland with a probable landfall at Newfoundland (St. Brendan’s Isle). This would be the route that Leif Erickson would have taken in the tenth century. Many of Brendan’s stops on his journey were islands where Irish monks had set up primitive monasteries. Norsemen that traveled on these waters visited these islands and recorded their meeting with “Papers” (fathers).
I think the chinese have a hat to throw into the who found america race as well. Let us also not ignore the tabaco leafes found in egyptian graves. But lets face it siberian hunter gathererers had them all beat by thousands of years. and depending on whos evidence you beleive the polynisisans may have had them beat.
Irish discovering America?
Come on now! We all know it was the Mormans. :D
Nihil, York is on my list of cities. Never made it. It's a shame they took such a great historical city and to made it into something like "New York" :p
Muracu... me and the soon to be misus have decided if we win the American Powerball lottery of $360,000,000 US - as it currently stands... we are going to move to Ireland and buy a pub. AO members will drink for free.
Cool
I always wanted to visit Ireland..
Now I have a good reason...
Hope you win :D
MLF
Sheesh with that much you can buy Ireland, jk Muracu..... :pQuote:
Muracu... me and the soon to be misus have decided if we win the American Powerball lottery of $360,000,000 US - as it currently stands... we are going to move to Ireland and buy a pub. AO members will drink for free.
...yep, sure sounds like they met the Newfies in their travels......prolly thought they were their arch enemy the "Capers"..... :DQuote:
they were “raised up on the back of sea monsters”, they “passed by crystals that rose up to the sky”, and were “pelted with flaming, foul smelling rocks by the inhabitants of a large island on their route”.
OK you can stay for free too.Quote:
Sheesh with that much you can buy Ireland
Whooohoo, when's the draw, good luck, and lets plan for St Paddy's day :drink:Quote:
Oh I never aswered the question. The greatest empire?
Well it's a toss up.
On one hand the Romulan Empire. They have the entire Federation of Planet and the Klingon Empire scared shitless.
Then there is the galactive Empire of the Sith lords who took over the Galactic Senate and ****ed up all those stupid Jedi who in mass with all their Force insight could not detect that one of their own was a Dark Lord. And that he was going to kick their asses solo.
:p
Road if you do win and you are looking for a barman, I might be willing to hang up my admin suit for the right price :D.
Quote:
And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...DIV1&byte=1477Quote:
And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Apparently, this was in Iraq. The greatest empires were the earliest ones. You will
never see Babylon again.
:cool:
Yes Babylon was in Iraq. A great empire, and it was conquered by Alexander in what 340 ish BC?
Well I didn't win the lottery. No Irish Pub... yet.
:D
Alexander the Gay?Quote:
and it was conquered by Alexander
:cool:
If the great man wanted a boy toy, who's to argue?
:D
I always thought the greek, more specifically Sparta, were pretty bad ass. Although the spartans were intellectually and economically stagnant, those guys were some true warriors. The Battle of Thermopylae, they knew they we all dead, but were going to delay the persians long enough for the other greek cities to prepare. It was what ? 300 vs 1000 I believe
Well, the Greek city states don't qualify as an "empire," but according to EG's cultural empire description, they had a significant impact on us today.
As for the Vikings, I trace more than one of the family lines (geneology) back through to Viking heritage. One goes to about 200 AD to the "unknown Scandinavian ancestor." Those maniac Vikings moved around a great deal, farmed, hunted, warred--and had lots of sex, evidently.
There was a lot more contact between various civilizations and cultural groups than folks give credit. For example, the Vikings are recorded to have made raids in the Med during the Roman Empire. Don't ask me where I got that. Rome was also in contact with the Egyptians and another civilization or two to the south.
As for empires and civilizations, we forget to include the Ethiopian empire, of which we have very little exposure in US and European education. I seem to recall that there were others in Africa. Nubian?
Then there are the empires or civilizations in the Americas: Maya, Aztec, Inca, Mississippian (possibly the largest ancient empire).
In any case, I subscribe to the American Genesis theory, so y'all came from the unknown Native American ancestor anyway.
;)
The Vikings did meet the Romans, and the Romans didn't like them. The Vikings at this time were extremely strong. The Romans were actually scared of the Vikings so the Romans offered them things like money and trade opportunities so that the Vikings wouldn't terrorize them. So, like you said:Quote:
And the Vikings never even met the Romans, by several hundred years
the vikings naturally excepted :).Quote:
They were actually traders, colonists and farmers by nature.
Otherwise, it was very possible for the Vikings to take over the Roman Empire, not easily of course, but possible.
...just found this...
And to settle things once and for all -
Largest empires (ancient and modern)
British Empire - 36 million km²
Mongol Empire - 35 million km²
Soviet Empire - 22 million km² [1]
Spanish Empire - 19 million km²
Islamic Caliphate - 13 million km²
French Empire - 12 million km²
Manchu Empire - 11 million km²
Portuguese Empire - 10 million km²
Japanese Empire - 7.4 million km²
Persian Empire - 6.2 million km²
Seljuq Empire - 6 million km²
Ming Empire - around 6 million km²
Roman Empire - 5.6 million km²
Ottoman Empire - 5.6 million km²
Macedonian Empire - 5.4 million km²
Almoravid Empire - 3.9 million km²
Mughal Empire - 3.7 million km²
German Empire - 3.6 million km²
Mauryan Empire - 3.6 million km²
Seleucid Empire - 3.4 million km²
Ghaznavid Empire - 2.6 million km²
Khazar Empire - 2.1 million km²
Largest populated empires
British Empire - 570 million
Manchu Empire - 380 million
Mughal Empire - 200 million
Ming Empire - 160 million
Soviet Empire - 160 million
Mongol Empire - 130 million
Japanese Empire - 130 million
Largest modern empires
British Empire - 36 million km²
Soviet Empire - 22 million km²
Spanish Empire - 19 million km²
French Empire - 12 million km²
Manchu Empire - 11 million km²
Portuguese Empire - 10 million km²
Japanese Empire - 7.4 million km²
Ottoman Empire - 5.6 million km²
Mughal Empire - 3.7 million km²
German Empire - 3.6 million km²
wikipedia.org
Rule Britannia,
Britannia rules the waves......
:D :D :D
Errrrrr...I think Wiki missed something...
The Great Canadian Empire...:D :p 9,976,140 km squared
Now you're just trying to be funny Egal....
All this Roman crap. Funny how the Germans handed them their asses. ;) The first time they went into where Germany is, the tribes went to higher mountains to let them look around. Then a while later kicked the hell out of them.
The British Empire was, at one time, the foremost global power and the greatest empire in history. It was a product of the European Age of Discovery that began with the global maritime explorations of Portugal and Spain in the late 15th century. By 1921 (the Empire was at its largest between the two World Wars, not before) the British Empire held sway over a population of about 470–570 million people; roughly a quarter of the world's population; and covered about 14.3 million square miles (more than 37 million km²), about a QUARTER of the world's total land area. Though it has since almost completely evolved into the Commonwealth of Nations, there remains a strong influence across the world, such as in economic practice, legal and government systems, the spread of many traditionally British sports (such as cricket and football) and also the spread of the English language. The British Empire was at one time refered to as "the empire on which the sun never sets", as due to its vastness, the sun was always shining on one of it's colonies.
At what is usually considered its height in 1921, the British Empire consisted of the following territories:
Africa
Basutoland (now Lesotho)
Bechuanaland (now Botswana) (divided, one part colony and another part a British protectorate)
British Togoland (now part of Ghana)
Gambia
Gold Coast (now Ghana)
Egypt (as a state under British protectorate)
Kenya (most parts colony, the coast area protectorate)
Mauritius
Nigeria
Northern Cameroons (now part of Nigeria)
Northern Rhodesia (now Zambia)
Nyasaland (now Malawi)
Sierra Leone
Somaliland
South Africa
Southern Cameroons (now part of Cameroon, being 9% of the territory of Cameroon)
Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe)
South West Africa (now Namibia)
Swaziland (as a state under British protectorate)
Sudan
Tanganyika and Zanzibar (now Tanzania) (Zanzibar as a state under British protectorate)
Uganda
The Americas and Atlantic
Ascension Island
British Guiana (now Guyana)
British Honduras (now Belize)
Canada
Falkland Islands
Newfoundland (now a province of Canada)
West Indies
Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Barbados
Bermuda
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Dominica
Grenada
Jamaica
Montserrat
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
St Helena
Tristan da Cunha
South Georgia (also claimed by Argentina)
Antarctica
British Antarctic Territory (under Antarctic Treaty overlaps Argentine and Chilean claim)
Asia
Aden Colony (now part of Yemen)
Aden Protectorate (states under British protection; now part of Yemen)
Bahrain
Bhutan
British India (now India, Pakistan and Bangladesh)
British Mandate of Palestine (now Israel (excluding the Golan Heights), the Gaza Strip and the West Bank)
Brunei (British protectorate)
Burma (now Myanmar)
Ceylon (now Sri Lanka)
Hong Kong (now a Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China after ceded by China in 1898)
Iraq
Kuwait
Malaya (now Peninsular Malaysia, part of Malaysia)
Maldives
North Borneo (now Sabah, part of Malaysia)
Muscat and Oman (now Oman)
Qatar
Sarawak (now part of Malaysia)
Sikkim (now part of India)
Straits Settlements (Singapore, Malacca, Penang, and Labuan in Southeast Asia and Cocos Islands and Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean; now divided among Singapore, Malaysia, and Australia)
Transjordan (now Jordan)
Trucial States (states under British protection; now the United Arab Emirates)
Wei-Hai-Wei (威海衞) (Now the city of Weihai in Shandong, China)
- There were also several extraterritorial territories in China called treaty ports, the most famous being the British concession in Shanghai
Europe
Channel Islands (crown dependencies)
Guernsey
Jersey
Cyprus
Gibraltar
Malta
Isle of Man (crown dependency)
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
Pacific
Australia
British New Guinea (southern part of what is now Papua New Guinea)
Ellice Islands (now Tuvalu)
Fiji
Gilbert Islands (now part of Kiribati)
Nauru
New Hebrides (condominium shared with the French Empire) (now Vanuatu)
New Zealand
Pitcairn
Solomon Islands
Tonga (as a state under British protectorate)
I wouldn't exactly agree with that, after all, it was the Romans who coined the name Germania..Quote:
Originally posted here by gore
All this Roman crap. Funny how the Germans handed them their asses. ;) The first time they went into where Germany is, the tribes went to higher mountains to let them look around. Then a while later kicked the hell out of them.
Quote:
Role in the Fall of Rome
Some of the Germanic tribes are frequently blamed in popular depictions of the fall of the Roman Empire in the late 5th century (pobably by German writers;) ). Professional historians and archaeologists have since the 1950s shifted their interpretations in such a way that the Germanic peoples are no longer seen as invading a decaying empire but as being co-opted into helping defend territory the central government could no longer adequately administer. Individuals and small groups from Germanic tribes had long been recruited from the territories beyond the limes (i.e., the regions just outside the Roman Empire), and some of them had risen high in the command structure of the army. Then the Empire recruited entire tribal groups under their native leaders as officers. Assisting with defense eventually shifted into administration and then outright rule, as Roman of government passed into the hands of Germanic leaders. Odoacer, who deposed Romulus Augustulus, is the ultimate example.
The presence of successor states controlled by a nobility from one of the Germanic tribes is evident in the 6th century - even in Italy, the former heart of the Empire, where Odoacer was followed by Theodoric the Great, king of the Ostrogoths, who was regarded by Roman citizens and Gothic settlers alike as legitimate successor to the rule of Rome and Italy.
But I agree with Eg :D
Calling it the British Empire is actually a misnomer in itself......Quote:
The British Empire was, at one time, the foremost global power and the greatest empire in history. It was a product of the European Age of Discovery that began with the global maritime explorations of Portugal and Spain in the late 15th century. By 1921 (the Empire was at its largest between the two World Wars, not before) the British Empire held sway over a population of about 470–570 million people; roughly a quarter of the world's population; and covered about 14.3 million square miles (more than 37 million km²), about a QUARTER of the world's total land area. Though it has since almost completely evolved into the Commonwealth of Nations, there remains a strong influence across the world, such as in economic practice, legal and government systems, the spread of many traditionally British sports (such as cricket and football) and also the spread of the English language. The British Empire was at one time refered to as "the empire on which the sun never sets", as due to its vastness, the sun was always shining on one of it's colonies.
I know....semantics,chemantics......Quote:
The "British Empire" was not a de jure(legitimate... ;) ) entity (like the German Empire, Austrian Empire, Russian Empire, or Japanese Empire), since Britain itself was a kingdom (the "United Kingdom" of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). One British possession, however, was an empire, namely India. Queen Victoria became "Empress of India" in 1876. Subsequently, the term "imperial" worked its way into various official terminology about British possessions, e.g. the "Imperial General Staff" and the "Imperial War Museum." When India and Pakistan became independent in 1947, the Indian Empire ceased to exist and both countries became, for a time, Dominions -- the category for previous British self-governing territories, starting with Canada (1867) and later coming to include the Commonwealth of Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, and, for a time (1926-1934), little Newfoundland (which did not join Canada until 1949). As the "Empire" faded, the British Commonwealth took over, though that organization seemed to offer less and less as time went on in terms of real economic, military, or political advantages.
:rolleyes:
The insect empire ;)