Roberto Calderoli: Bravest Man Alive!

Roberto Calderoli for Bravest Man alive!

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Deep embitterment" was expressed this morning by Hamza Piccardo, the secretary of the Union of Islamic Communities and Organisations in Italy (UCOII), over the gesture made by Minister Roberto Calderoli in deciding to be seen in public wearing a T-shirt with the cartoon sketches that have caused such uproar around the Islamic world, printed on it. "It is sad to have people like this in the Italian government. Carderoli does not appreciate the difference between political provocation and the this sort of absolutely shameful act in a difficult climate like the current one" said Piccardo on Radio Popolare. He added; "the minister does not realise that beyond that which is the sensibility of Moslems is the sensibility of the faithful. He does not appreciate that he is putting the image of Italy, which has already been compromised by the actions of this government, at risk. Her doesn't understand that our exports to Arab countries is being seriously effected and that many of his voters are businessmen that export to those countries." He concluded: "I must say, that we did not expect sensitivity from this minister but we at least hope that he is able to appreciate where the country's bests interests lie." (AGI) -

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I don't even friggin know how to reply to this one...

Ugh, considering that this is Italy, the bastion of Roman Catholicism...more tact could definately have been due. He should have been wearing a matching hat with "Extremist Ammunition" written across it. Maybe this will give them another reason to call for elections? They seem to like doing that.

I think it's ridiculous to even be upset over the cartoons...and he was probably trying to make that point...buddha is sold in shops as tokens or greet you when you enter an asian restaurant...jesus has been replaced by a santa claus...everywhere you go you see bumper stickers or listen to comedians tearing up religions...there are books out their that suggest they don't exist, that jesus was a homosexual, etc...

moslems should be exempt from being made fun of...exempt from being mocked or ridiculed?

I think they need to get a sense of humor and lighten up...or at the very least loosen the turban because it might be cutting off circulation to their brains.

Eg ;)

I think someone is going to try and end his stay on the great ball we call earth next time he wears that shirt lol. But I agree people are making to much of these CARTOONS!

It just gets sadder and sadder, we just had a young local kid who is currently going to a grammar school (of all places) here in Halifax, and after he canvassed other students, including Muslims, he reprinted the cartoon with the depiction of Muhammed (supposedly as no one has really seen this person) wearing a turban with the old keystone kops bomb in it, for the school student paper.

Well the school administration has since pulled the paper, mollifying those that were supposedly insulted, and are forcing the young guy to write an apology on Monday, well this has hit the papers, and he rightly has come forward accusing the school of censorship, he is unsure of his status and has allready said he will write the apology.

I believe he has nothing to apologise for, I think the community will support him, if anything the school administration by censoring this has opened a can of worms, they should have left well enough alone, as the students were supportive of this kids motives and intentions, which was all about the news, not to insult or be insensitive.He just wanted to open up a dialogue between the Christian and Muslim students.

There is far too much muzzling going on......and that Italian is very brave, too bad there weren't more like him..



Full Story of Student

I was under the impression that Europeans (rightly or wrongly) tended to be pro-Arab (I know that all Arabs aren't Moslems). Does anyone think that the cartoon incident and the Iran situation will lead to long term animosity?

I think freedom of speech is a good thing and I think religion (well, Christianity ;) is a good thing. While I can see where the Moselems would be offended, I don't think violence is the answer. I don't like it when people make fun of Jesus, but one of the things he taught was that Christians are to love even their enemies.

I don't think it matters whether it was meant as an insult or to be offensive...funny or just plain controversal...

people really need to lighten-up...you can't even open your mouth these days without offending someone...like walking on glass, 'ooohhhhhhh, better not say that, the person/group/society will take it the wrong way'

people really need to get over this...we went from the ' me ' generation in the 80's...to now 'the sensitive people generation of political correctness' in the 90's and 00's...

geeeeeez are we really that thin-skinned...what ever happened to ' sticks and stones ' ?...

I'm waiting for the ' I really don't give a rats a@@ ' generation to come along.

Eg ;)

Update

Calderoli resigned under pressure from his government...
Libian protesters set the Italian embassy in Benghazi on fire, and 11 of them were killed and 35 wounded when army troops opened fire...

Has anyone else noticed this... The blacks started the civil rights movement, the Jews turned to education and business, etc.

The Muslims... When they were discriminated against, they started setting Europe on fire and killing people who had nothing to do with it.

What the **** could possibly convince somebody that violent protests are a good was to change an image of violence?


I support anyone who wears those shirts, and anyone who publishes the cartoons.


Freedom of speech and freedom of the press.


And free beer for all.

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Calderoli resigned under pressure from his government...
Libian protesters set the Italian embassy in Benghazi on fire, and 11 of them were killed and 35 wounded when army troops opened fire...

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Now this isn't a condemnation of Islam or Moslems ( they don't have the market cornered on extremists or fanatical behaviour )...but...this only continues to prove the age old saying that anyone who wants to be in power is unfit to rule.

Eg ;)

Frankly, those who are protesting, be it peacefully or violently, are showing themselves for exactly what they are.... Intolerant... People who are intolerant of things only put up with them for so long... Then they remove the object from their lives... Good luck... The "I don't give a rats ass" generation was born in 1958... and I'm still here... Will remain here and it will take more than a few backwards tribesmen with oil money to get rid of me.... I've played soldiers with them a few times.... As soldiers go... I'd be more scared of your grannies... :D

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The "I don't give a rats ass" generation was born in 1958

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Can I hear an AMEN! :D By the way I beat you by one year :p

Man...I do not envy kids today...having to grow up now with all the problems and sensitivities...we may not have had as many toys, or gadgets, but I think we had a lot more fun.

Eg ;)

Greeting's

here are some update which are related to particular country INDIA :

Now i know not many people here give much about the "cartoon", nor do I the way I look at it that it was A CARTOON.

anyway here are the links :

1.http://www.ndtv.com/template/templat...ate=cartoonrow
2.http://www.ndtv.com/template/templat...ate=cartoonrow
3.http://www.ndtv.com/template/templat...84977&callid=1

Now I was looking for a particular story but i cant seem to find it, anyway a Muslim leader here said he would give a reward of either 5 million or 50 million INR, to anyone who would kill the guy who drew this cartoon, he is just a member of the parliament he's salary is 20,000 INR but he's declared a reward much much higher then his total salary (he's been a member for only 4 years) in a state where parent sell their children for less then 500 INR (ALMOST 11 $). I'm not sure what I'm trying to say (forgive me for that) but in a country where government fails to feed its own population, where 40 percent of people live below poverty line. Some nut head declares a huge award. when he was interviewed on TV he didn't even have an idea what the cartoon looked and his answer were more off course then this world is today.

anyway Egaladeist did sum it up well

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Man...I do not envy kids today...having to grow up now with all the problems and sensitivities...we may not have had as many toys, or gadgets, but I think we had a lot more fun.

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Have a nice day.


P.S : I'm by now means trying to this thread to INDIA or problems faced by INDIAN's, I'm just trying to show whats happening because of some CARTOON. its like the world or *some* people just want a reason to start a fire (like we havent got enough on our heads till now).

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Originally posted here by Egaladeist
Can I hear an AMEN! By the way I beat you by one year

Eg ;)

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Hey, can I hear another AMEN, beat you Eg by one year, and TS by 2, and that is the generation that kicks a**..

Instant gratification today is what's ruining the kids.Too much is handed to them, and as parents today, we are all to blame, actually I would say it all started when they took the "Strap" out of the classroom, they removed the "healthy fear" of authority we had as kids.

So much so that now we are reaping what has been sowed....

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Update

Calderoli resigned under pressure from his government...
Libian protesters set the Italian embassy in Benghazi on fire, and 11 of them were killed and 35 wounded when army troops opened fire...

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Sorry Neg, but I couldn't resist....Libyan is the correct spelling for a native of Libya, I know you being the perfectionist will appreciate me bringing this to light...(I am thoroughly checking this post for errors) :p

So where do you order these T-shirts?

I'll take a dozen.

Although I'll probably wear my kevlar vest under them. :D


I don't know I can see both sides of this story. To a point where it appears the Islamic world is protesting and burning down Embassies and restraints for what westerners see as a basic freedom of speech issue, wearing a T-shirt with the cartoon on it is our passive aggressive way of showing our displeasure with the violence of the Islamic world, where the Islamic world is just aggressive. Though wearing the shirts totally doesn't help the situation.

The thing is, what if the shoe was on the other foot.....what if every time a Muslim insulted a Christian and we turned out onto the streets, and violently rioted, and burned their embassies or mosques.

Their is no rational amongst the so called elders of this religion, if Catholics were to start rioting, all it would take would be one word from the Pope (stop) and the rioting would stop, why because Christianity does believe it or not, listen to their Church leaders, most times.

The Muslims like to go on about how there is aprrox 1.3 Billion of them, well if you put together all of the Christians the number is 2.1 Billion, so bring it on sucka...

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

A factor I think here, is culture. Democracy has not had much of a foothold in the Middle East (except for Israel, and Iraq has the beginnings of it). Democracy is more of a Western ideal. Most of these Middle Eastern countries do not have true democratic government, and they have not had a tradition of freedom. Islam feeds this. Especially when countries are governed by Islamic law. I don't see how democracy and freedom can coexist with Islamic law. Although I am a Christian, I believe that government and religion are best separated. That is, I don't believe in state churches. I do not want the government supporting the church with taxes. I do not want the government enforcing Church laws. God does not need the government to protect Him. Besides, a true relationship with God cannot be legislated. It is a matter of the heart. If people do not love Him and respect Him, you cannot make them do it.

Hmmmm, as I see it, the main problem is that these people who are demonstrating don't even know the tenets of their own religion.

How many of them could cite the six pillars of Islam?

Are they aware that ALL images effigies and icons of ANY prophet, saint, angel, or of God are prohibited? Mohammed is only one prophet recognised by Islam. If you read the holy Koran you will see that Mohammed is mentioned only once, in his introduction. Jesus, on the other hand, is mentioned some 40 times ;) I would bet that they don't know that either!

Then we get to the reasoning behind the prohibition. In the time of Mohammed, Godlessness and idolatry was apparently rampant. The prohibition was largely to counteract idolatery. Mohammed and his followers were very self-effacing; once again deliberately so as not to detract in any way from the importance of God and his teaching. This was another reason for avoiding icons and images. To pay undue attention to the messenger may obfuscate the message?

However, the Moslems have accepted that imagery is a fundamental part of the Christian tradition without any problem. So, to react against images of Mohammed implies that he is more important than any of the other prophets (that was NOT his message) and is inconsistent.

They are completely wrong to react in the way that they are, this is just "rent a mob" which is probably why the Libyans shot so many of them. After all, if an infidel blasphemes who cares, that is to be expected, and they will go to hell. Similarly, if you believe that the name of Allah and his prophets need human protection, that is in itself blasphemy, and you will be joining the infidels :cool: Allah can look after himself and his own.



:)

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Originally posted here by dalek
It just gets sadder and sadder, we just had a young local kid who is currently going to a grammar school (of all places) here in Halifax, and after he canvassed other students, including Muslims, he reprinted the cartoon with the depiction of Muhammed (supposedly as no one has really seen this person) wearing a turban with the old keystone kops bomb in it, for the school student paper.

Well the school administration has since pulled the paper, mollifying those that were supposedly insulted, and are forcing the young guy to write an apology on Monday, well this has hit the papers, and he rightly has come forward accusing the school of censorship, he is unsure of his status and has allready said he will write the apology.

I believe he has nothing to apologise for, I think the community will support him, if anything the school administration by censoring this has opened a can of worms, they should have left well enough alone, as the students were supportive of this kids motives and intentions, which was all about the news, not to insult or be insensitive.He just wanted to open up a dialogue between the Christian and Muslim students.

There is far too much muzzling going on......and that Italian is very brave, too bad there weren't more like him..



Full Story of Student

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I don't know about that one. Recently graduated myself, I can get a pretty good idea of what this kid was probably like. It's a school newspaper, not even the students read it. The message has been out already for quite awhile, and some kid printing more of the same in an unheard-of publication will accomplish nothing.

Free speech doesn't really exist in public schools, with proper reason. This was probably just your garden-variety wannabe-activist who regurgitates everything CNN tells him as if it were his own opinion. If the kid wants to get a message out, he can do it on his own time. Making a potentially disruptive message to get attention has no place in school.

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To me, these riots are just the destitute Islamic world trying to lash out and prove it still matters. If it weren't for the oil under their feet, they would have been forgotten a century ago. Instead of burning down embassys to get noticed, why don't they make an advance in sience, technology, music, literature, government, etc etc.

I'm not sure where the phrase originated, but a massive glass parking lot keeps looking more and more attractive. I only imagine that desire to become more proliferate once alternate fuel sources are maintained.

What is most astonishing to me is that there are still people in western
Europe and America who still beleive that this is all our fault,
and that we need to further compromise our laws and traditions
to restore "peace" When are we going to burn their embassies?
:cool:

Two points:

The Danes, as a free society beseiged by twelfth century religious fanatics, deserve our support. Let's print the cartoons, wear them, declare we will not put up with this crap. If the Islamist lunatics wish to take offense at our freedom, let them take offense at the entire free world.

*censored*'em.

Defiance counts, as does solidarity.

And the Danes have shown. In world War II, Denmark was occupied by the German Army in 1940. the Danish king chose to stay in Denmark, and rode through the capital, alone and unescorted, every morning to show the flag.

Jews in Denmark never wore the Star of David. The story is that the King swore if one Dane had to wear it, all Danes would wear it.

In August of 1943 a state of energency was announced in Denmark, and the government discovered that the Germans were going to round up Denmark's 7,500 Jews. Collection day was to be October 1. The Danes informed the Rabbi, who advised his flock to go into hiding on Sept. 29. They were hidden in hospitals, private homes, and eventually most were smuggled to Sweden by Danish fishermen.

Out of 7,500 Jews, the Germans managed to arrest and transport just 481.

Defiance counts.

Thanks for that story, @tt!tud3! I still have relatives in Denmark (on my father's side). Gave me a little proud feeling there.

So, where do we get the t-shirts? I'm in for one ... or three. XXL.

BTW, TS and all, I got ya'll beat. I think nihil is the only codger in this thread older than me. And, not by much.

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BTW, TS and all, I got ya'll beat. I think nihil is the only codger in this thread older than me. And, not by much.

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Well... Er... My weiner is bigger than yours.... Hah... that's it.... _and_ I can pee further up the wall than you... HAH!!!!!

Can we just go take the oil and leave them to play in the sand?

I've adapted my illegal immigrant idea to deal with these protestors.

Anyone protesting in a violent fashion is clubbed to the ground and dragged to a holding cell before being shipped to the coast. Each of these protestors is then given a free ticket to leave the country via a large catapult or trebuchet. Anyone protesting as a bomber is attached to a cheap MK-84 bomb and flicked towards Mecca before being martyred by remote control. The rest of them can swim for it after they get dropped in the North Sea.

Or we could load them into a B52 and drop them over Mecca but that would be expensive.

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Originally posted here by Evil Moo
[B]I don't know about that one. Recently graduated myself, I can get a pretty good idea of what this kid was probably like. It's a school newspaper, not even the students read it. The message has been out already for quite awhile, and some kid printing more of the same in an unheard-of publication will accomplish nothing.

Free speech doesn't really exist in public schools, with proper reason. This was probably just your garden-variety wannabe-activist who regurgitates everything CNN tells him as if it were his own opinion. If the kid wants to get a message out, he can do it on his own time. Making a potentially disruptive message to get attention has no place in school.

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Do you actually read the links provided, or do you just skim and try to get your point over that of the other person....1. It's a Private school, 2. The paper is not unheard of around here,maybe in your sphere it is unheard of. 3. Schools are exactly where this stuff should be brought out and debated..


If you stifle free speech, or censor it in the schools, then you are just as ignorant as those who would abuse it...

The majority of the problems these Islamists have is exactly the fact that they do not teach anything else but their religion in most of their schools...if they opened their education up to accept a wider view of the world, then maybe they would understand the demographics of other countries, and be more open to other religions...?
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and be more open to other religions

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But the majpr flaw in your premise is that they even believe that there are other religions in their eyes.... I do believe that they don't see any religion other than their own as valid.

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Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
But the majpr flaw in your premise is that they even believe that there are other religions in their eyes.... I do believe that they don't see any religion other than their own as valid.

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[facetous]Which is why, all Muslims under the age of 5 be taken from their parents and placed in environments that teach everything but religion, until they are at an age where they can make informed decisions on their own?[/facetous]

Seriously though, this is the major stumbling block for the majority of Islamists, they have been fed crap for so long it would take years to debrief or what's the word they use when they rescue kids from those cults, sort of unbrainwash them.

From the horses mouth. :D

So, over two weeks we witnessed a half-dozen cases of self-censorship, pitting freedom of speech against the fear of confronting issues about Islam. This was a legitimate news story to cover, and Jyllands-Posten decided to do it by adopting the well-known journalistic principle: Show, don't tell. I wrote to members of the association of Danish cartoonists asking them "to draw Muhammad as you see him." We certainly did not ask them to make fun of the prophet. Twelve out of 25 active members responded.

Has Jyllands-Posten insulted and disrespected Islam? It certainly didn't intend to. But what does respect mean? When I visit a mosque, I show my respect by taking off my shoes. I follow the customs, just as I do in a church, synagogue or other holy place. But if a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021702499.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02...ets_religious/

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Yahoo! will not accept any identies which include the letters "allah".
Nor will Yahoo! accept yahoo, osama or binladen. But it will accept god, messiah, jesus, jehova, buddah, satan and both priest and pedophile.

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This maybe should be in humor, but I figured most of the comments would appy here:

The Plan!
Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says
"I love New York" in Arabic.
You gotta love Robin Williams......
Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)
"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a
plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference"
in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin,
Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good 'ole' boys",
we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world,
starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines.
They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one
allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs
together and leave.We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the
remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom
or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited
to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation
will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and
don't hide here. Asylum would never be available
to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11
cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the
bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home
baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include
developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary
drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope
for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a
barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can
go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells
filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the
world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for
seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give
them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace.
We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the
building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That
way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak
is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
"The Statue of Liberty is no longer
saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "

11) Legalize marijuana. Grow it here and keep the money at home instead
of funding both sides in every south/central american revolution.

12)Legalize p2p filesharing, thus bankrupting Hollywood so they can no longer
finance the lefties in the Democratic party.

13) Fire the mercenary army and bring back the draft. Every young stud
at 18 years old gets to be a citizen soldier. That way, when the officers
try to overthrow our democratic government, the privates will tell them
where to go.

14) Abolish "social security". Why tax the people into the ground so politicians
can play golf at St. Andrews'.

15) Bring back public hanging. I'm in a bad mood and want to make an example of
someone.
:cool:

there are in fact works of art done by muslims depicting mohammed. although in most of them he is wearing a mask in others he is not. a few of these on Tee shirts along with a few words would say a whole lot more than these cartoons would today...like what a farce this indignation really is. this is really meant to draw attention off the artistists rights being taken away by thugs using threats and how this will soon spill over into all of our laws if its not stopped here.

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Originally posted here by dalek
Do you actually read the links provided, or do you just skim and try to get your point over that of the other person....1. It's a Private school, 2. The paper is not unheard of around here,maybe in your sphere it is unheard of. 3. Schools are exactly where this stuff should be brought out and debated..


If you stifle free speech, or censor it in the schools, then you are just as ignorant as those who would abuse it...

The majority of the problems these Islamists have is exactly the fact that they do not teach anything else but their religion in most of their schools...if they opened their education up to accept a wider view of the world, then maybe they would understand the demographics of other countries, and be more open to other religions...?
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I do read, I have a small presence here, but I figured the fact that I substantiate my opinions was at least clear enough. 1) I suppose I should have said, "Even public school don't really have free speech." I figured it was implicit that Private school have even less. 2) It's a boarding house grade school. Not exactly a level of education respected or widely payed attention to for intellectual insights, especially rehashed ones. 3) Debating is different than simply saying. Last time I checked, I couldn't really talk back to a newspaper--or at least, it never seems to listen when I do. It's school funded, and run by the student body. That's directly representative of the school itself. Considering it was a private school, I think it was 100% correct and proper for Headmaster Paul Bennett and Matthew Moffatt to do what they were hired to do.

I doubt even most people in NS read that newspaper. I adamantly doubt anyone outside NS does either. His regurgitated message was reaching nobody through that print. Just a pointless risk that the school doesn't feel it needs to take. As it is a private organization, that's all that really matters there. If he has a message that important, let him do it on his own time. However, while at the private school--it has every right to order what he is and is not to do if it accomplishes their promise of superior education.

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Although I must admitt, Robin Williams definately has a good thing going with that "humorous" rant. It's too bad nobody actually listens to simplicity and puts it to practice.

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Just a pointless risk that the school doesn't feel it needs to take

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Yeah, they might take hostages and cut off some heads. In fact maybe we
are all taking a big risk over this "free speech" ****. Better to be quiet
and hope they don't beat the door down in the middle of the night
and drag you away. After all "free speech ain't worth dying for is it?
:confused:

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Just a pointless risk that the school doesn't feel it needs to take.

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So in this regard, any sort of dialogue is useless, lets not talk about this, (buries head in sand), this is exactly the type of attitude that has led a lot of people down the garden path. Ignorance is not bliss, if schools do not want to keep up in civics, or at least garner a better understanding of what is going on outside their walls, then this will continue to breed bias and bigotry.

The point of the article was obviously lost on you, as it represented a form of censorship, which is okay by you, and was presented as an example, not just because it was in my home town, if you have been watching the news (not CNN or Fox) or reading the papers, maybe you will have noticed that my example is being carried out all over the world, as once respected news outlets succumb to the intimidation of Islam.

If you want to preserve freedom of expression, then all of the warts have to be shown, and also both sides of the coin, just because someone finds it offensive, does not give them the right to behave in an irresponsible manner, they could have written to the editor... :D

That is why I believe strongly that freedom of expression or speech should be protected, as much as possible, because once the book burning begins, there is no turning back...

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Originally posted here by rcgreen


Yeah, they might take hostages and cut off some heads. In fact maybe we
are all taking a big risk over this "free speech" ****. Better to be quiet
and hope they don't beat the door down in the middle of the night
and drag you away. After all "free speech ain't worth dying for is it?
:confused:

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Originally posted here by dalek


So in this regard, any sort of dialogue is useless, lets not talk about this, (buries head in sand), this is exactly the type of attitude that has led a lot of people down the garden path. Ignorance is not bliss, if schools do not want to keep up in civics, or at least garner a better understanding of what is going on outside their walls, then this will continue to breed bias and bigotry.

The point of the article was obviously lost on you, as it represented a form of censorship, which is okay by you, and was presented as an example, not just because it was in my home town, if you have been watching the news (not CNN or Fox) or reading the papers, maybe you will have noticed that my example is being carried out all over the world, as once respected news outlets succumb to the intimidation of Islam.

If you want to preserve freedom of expression, then all of the warts have to be shown, and also both sides of the coin, just because someone finds it offensive, does not give them the right to behave in an irresponsible manner, they could have written to the editor... :D

That is why I believe strongly that freedom of expression or speech should be protected, as much as possible, because once the book burning begins, there is no turning back...

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Both points are useless. Any argument in context to this grade school and preserving freedom of expression is moot. It's a private organization. It does what it will. They are not required to be a bastion of human rights or pillar of freedom. If they don't want to "rock the boat" they do not have to. If they want to stay detached from political and potentially troublesome issues, they will certainly do so.

People seem to forget while we may have the treasured right to be involved, we also have the right not to be involved. The school feels that this article didn't represent itself properly and/or may have had unwanted disruptive effects on its education program. They didn't deem this potential risk a necessary or even valuable part of their program. Hence they removed it, as they should if they felt that way.

If you don't like that, fine. Don't enroll your children there. Make their "facist" ways known so that nobody else will either if you care so much about this private organization. If people agree that it's a serious concern of the public that this school is trying to dodge conflict that they find unwanted and unnecessary, then the school will go bankrupt and be forced to change such an "evil" practice.

Until that point, this private school has every right and responsibility to administrate and educate its enrolled students as it sees fit, and promised the parents it would do.

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Until that point, this private school has every right and responsibility to administrate and educate its enrolled students as it sees fit, and promised the parents it would do.

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I agree 100%. And since my own children do not attend there I will only
snicker and post my comments here, rather that bother them.

It is ironic, though, that private schools usually boast about the
superiority of their education, but fall back on the policy of
"It's my school and I'll do as I please"
Parents in the market for a truly challenging education
for their children may take note. Unlike the gov't schools,
this place can't compel you to attend.

Cowardice is still cowardice, even though you have a right
to be a coward. It's a free country, for a while anyway.
:cool:

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If you don't like that, fine. Don't enroll your children there. Make their "facist" ways known so that nobody else will either if you care so much about this private organization. If people agree that it's a serious concern of the public that this school is trying to dodge conflict that they find unwanted and unnecessary, then the school will go bankrupt and be forced to change such an "evil" practice.

Until that point, this private school has every right and responsibility to administrate and educate its enrolled students as it sees fit, and promised the parents it would do.

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WTF???, you are still missing the point...."Censorship", I don't give a rats as* if it's a private or public school either, my point is muzzling free expression because someone feels insulted or threatened because of their belief's, so I will intimidate you into not allowing the freedom to legitimately debate the pro's and con's of whatever it is that happens to disturb you, in other words, the so called pillars of our education will secede their responsibility to lead by example, which would be to hold our ideals up to the highest scrutiny, regardless if it bothers you.

And I don't get where you think I was extolling anything about enrolling children into a private school....what does that have to do with "Censorship"????

What if that particular student wanted to write in the paper about single Mothers, and the views of the administration were very narrow minded, and they decided that in their esteemed opinion, that it has no place in a student newspaper, or it was to be about the Christian beliefs, so because the administration is all Christian this would get the okay no doubt? (bias/bigotry)

My point was two posts ago and still is, all about "censorship", not wether the school being private or public, or that the administration had a right to not allow it, they obviously do, but then that is a form of censorship over the schools editors, in other words, we will let you know what you can write about and what you can't write about, why bother having a student paper, I am sure the folks at Berkley would have loved to seen that sort of control,by their administration. "not"...

The very basis of a newspaper is to report on the current news or to have editorials, and if they are thought provoking then all the better for the student body, any sort of meaningful dialogue is better then being fed pap by those who think they know what's in your best interest's, and therefore will dictate what you can read or write.

I am sure half the ignorance in this world is because people are content to have organisations like CNN or Fox news feed you the gospel according to them.Does anybody still read the front page of the newspapers, or is it straight to the sports section and to hell with what's going on in the world...(Apathy)

Selective censorship is creeping into our daily lives, and before you know it, the right to read any published material will be gone, a case in point is the very works of Mark Twain, he wrote in a period where the "N" word was part of the everyday vernacular, however distastful that word is, it is a part of history, so what did the PC people do, they took out Huckleberry FInn from the school libraries down in some of the Southern States (of all places).

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During this same century, Huckleberry Finn has repeatedly been banned from library shelves, removed from classrooms, and challenged by censorious voices for promoting improper or indecent conduct and for being insensitive to matters of race. As early as 1885, the book was banned in Concord, Massachusetts, as "trash and suitable only for the slums." In 1905, the book was taken from the Children's Room of the Brooklyn Public Library because "Huck not only itches but scratches"; and in 1969, it was deleted from the required reading list at Miami-Dade Junior College, Florida, because it "inhibits learning" by black students. During the first week of 1989, newspapers reported that author Alex Hailey was defending the book against would-be censors in Knoxville, Tennessee.

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Huck Finn

So my feelings about censorship are very strong, if you cannot have a civil debate on the merits of the story or article, but instead wish to resort to violence then you don't belong in the debate at all, that's my message to the Imans, and clerics or elders of Islam....

As for the supposed Robin Williams plan:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...liams-plan.htm

I was suspicious immediately, so I checked it out.
;)

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Originally posted here by dalek
WTF???, you are still missing the point...."Censorship", I don't give a rats as* if it's a private or public school either, my point is muzzling free expression because someone feels insulted or threatened because of their belief's, so I will intimidate you into not allowing the freedom to legitimately debate the pro's and con's of whatever it is that happens to disturb you, in other words, the so called pillars of our education will secede their responsibility to lead by example, which would be to hold our ideals up to the highest scrutiny, regardless if it bothers you.

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I have to disagree. Not everyone thinks on a higher level, as we have witnessed from the Islamic world in response to these cartoons. Even many people in rich and developed nations don't think to that same degree. A business and/or organization has every right to with-hold statements and articles that it doesn't feel represent it or could potentially harm its well-being and success. It's an extremely reasonable idea.

Freedom of expression is undoubtably good, yes. However, when you work for someone, you are an extension of that someone. If you do something they don't like, which is directly representative of them--they have every right to stop you. Just because your employee wants to be a vigilante and doesn't give a rat's-@$$ about the welfare of the company, doesn't mean the owners, or others making a living through it don't either.

It's easy to be a warrior in the classroom.