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I've seen alot of 9-11 films. There's a lot I don't carry because they have disinfo in them. But This film just puts out the questions, and has alot of powerful evidence.
This film also shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.
Loose Change a 9/11 Documentary ( please don't criticize until you watch)
HiQuote:
Originally posted here by XxAC1dCellxX
I've seen alot of 9-11 films. There's a lot I don't carry because they have disinfo in them. But This film just puts out the questions, and has alot of powerful evidence.
This film also shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.
Loose Change a 9/11 Documentary ( please don't criticize until you watch)
Watching the video now, but you may want to edit your link....too many http's.... ;) (takes me to Microsoft LOL....)
This was posted a while ago by someone here....you might wanna look for it to find discussion....
edit:
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...t=loose+change
most likely the same video, dont feel like downloading it and compare them....
ahh thnx dalek , i had an extra http in there but the link should be fixed now :p
Sorry, I'm not gonna take that bait and sit through thatQuote:
please don't criticize until you watch
long azz film only to have to yet again go through
all the reasons that it is boo shitez. People trolling the
net looking for proof that it was the pope or queen Eliz.
will find proof (so-called). When the ragheadz come down
the main street of your town raping and killing your family,
maybe then you will realize that, no, it wasn't Bush after all.
:confused:
im gonna have to agree with rc here.
Though I can't comment about the documentary or any implied connection between the US Gov and 9/11 I feel compelled to respond to RC's comment.
With the exception of the radical fundamentalists that spawn terrorism that are a blight no matter what religion they come from (blowing up hotels or birth control clinics). I don't see a bunch "ragheadz" marching down the main street of my town raping and killing my family.
I have a slight problem with a president that believes in "pre-emptive self defense" from any paranoia that seems to trouble him. A presidential team that avoided armed conflict when it was their generation, calling their messy war a noble effort but there aren't any of the Bush/Cheney clan involved. At least when Nixon was president and called Viet Nam a noble effort he had a son-in-law serving.
Are we any safer? Is the middle east more stable? Have enough servicepeople been killed already? Is your petroleum any cheaper? Is the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" yet?
That's a hard question to answer. Defense is measured by the potentialQuote:
Are we any safer? Is the middle east more stable? Have enough servicepeople been killed already? Is your petroleum any cheaper? Is the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" yet?
things it prevents, so let your imagination run free here.
Have they blown up the Golden Gate bridge? Are the White House
and Capitol building still standing? Have your teenage kids beed murdered
in an explosion at the local shopping mall?
Get this. The Islamic bad guys are armed and dangerous. You and I, and our
loved ones are in the crosshairs. The WWII generation, if faced with today's
situation would not be whining about casualties and cooking up films
that accuse the President of blowing up the World Trade Center.
The statement that sums it all up is, "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."
America is gripped with a suicidal insanity over this stuff. There can't be a Bush
conspiracy, because he has failed to convince anyone but a few that there is
any good reason for the Afghan and Iraq wars. When he leaves office, will his
successor play to popular demand and pull out? Good chance. Will there be
more atrocities in the future? Who knows. But pretending the monsters aren't
there will not keep us safe from Islamic Jihad.
:cool:
Wow....
Ragheads... Islamic Bad Guys... I feel much hate and intolerance in here.
But you didn’t answer the question. You threw a vague attempt at answer the question followed up with some fecal matter about WWII vets. Closing it with another shot at a demographic of people you don't understand and probably have no desire to understand.
Here are some things we know:
We know the administration lied about the war in Iraq, we know that the majority of government contracts given out to rebuild Iraq (and New Orleans for that matter) were given to Halliburton or other Corporations with strong ties to the administration. We know that Osama's family and many other prominent Saudi's were flown out of the country the day of the 9/11. We know the NSA is spying on us. We know gas has not gone down. We know that FOX news is owned by the GOP. We know that "Christians" like Pat Robertson have called for the assassination of foreign government members who have given this administration a hard time.
Oh and before you start worrying about your families being put in the cross hairs of extreme followers of Islam. You might want to look into the numbers and types of hate crime brought on by the extreme followers of Christianity first. One that just Springs to my mind is the group of good old boys in Nebraska who shot a Native American woman who was walking down the street then promptly told her to "go home"...
Ok I figure I better weigh in now. I have many muslim friends and I am in no way racist I think that overall most muslims are nice people and wouldnt want to do anything to cause anymore havoc than we have already got. But can you HONESTLY say that 9/11 wasnt caused by terrorists when you have the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui going on right now.
Prosecutors told jurors that the decision to sentence Moussaoui to death ought to be relatively easy given the horror inflicted on 9/11 and Moussaoui's glee evident throughout the trial at the destruction he helped wreak. Nearly 3,000 people died in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Defense lawyer Gerald Zerkin said Moussaoui has twice testified in his own defense and obviously done harm to his own case, first by claiming a direct role in 9/11 after years of denials and then by mocking the testimony of 9/11 victims and their families who tearfully told of their suffering.
Moussaoui has transparent contempt for the victims of 9/11.
How can you sit here and tell me Bush caused 9/11 it was all a conspiracy? you need to get real and realize the Iraq War right or wrong is going on NOW and we do have enemies out there and we need to be prepared. Bush may not be the best president ever but at least he sticks by what he believes is right. Have we had another terrorist attack since 9/11. no! why do you think that is? Bush may being doing alot of things wrong but he seems to be doing something right.
IMO Zacarias Moussaoui deserves to die and get the same fate that he helped give to about 3000 other INNOCENT people on 9/11. ok I will get off my soap box now.
p.s. I got those quotes from THIS link.
I honestly believe that 9/11 was a terrorist act. Look at how afraid America is.
I also know that Iraq is real, that the US has enemies, that Moussaoui will get what is coming to him(by a court of law - the American way), and that over 3000 innoceint people died on 9/11(Every time I go back to NYC to see my brother and my wife's family I am reminded of that fact). Just like every time I turn on the news I am reminded of the innocents being killed all around the world.
The subject was a video that stated a researched opinion about the terrible event. It turned to a shot at Islam. Which is what I responded to.
Texan and RC,
I am in agreement with you concerning the attacks on 9/11, I can't imagine a sitting president knowingly let his fellow Americans die in such a way.
The conflict in Afghanistan could have been avoided if the reignng party, the Taliban, extradited Bin Laden who was not a citizen of Afghanistan. This would have been no threat to their soveriegnty.
However this is where we part company. All of the reasons for the invasion, toppling the government and now occupation of Iraq were either misinformation or lies. Can we cut and run, I think we're in this mess for a long time.
Where is the accountability though? If I were CEO of any organization and I was lied to or misinformed by my people they would be hung out to dry. Not just for my own PR, but so they couldn't do it again.
Even the Bush administartion cannot make a connection between Saddam and 9/11. Toppling Saddam has not made the US safer.
Suspecting every Muslim of being a terrorist brings us back to the days of the US locking all of the Japanese or even a longer stretch, Hitler locking up all of the Jews, gypsies, disabled, etc etc.
The US has been built on a quite a mix of ethnic and religious outcasts and refugees from other countries. If we're going to start a "American purity" I guess we're all going to leave and let the indigenious Americans have their land back.
Well every man/woman is allowed their opinion RC was just voicing his. Personally I dont think he, thinks all muslims are "ragheads" but I really cant defend him to much since I dont know him personally. You will have to take that up with him. I was just making the point that some people choose to deny 9/11 was caused by terrorists at all, they claim it was the American gov. who did it to our own people which I think is wrong. Dead wrong.
edit/ Toppling Saddam maybe hasnt made American soil safer ( mabe it has) but I do believe it has made it safer for the people of Iraq. You will prolly ask how so? with all the car bombs blowing up etc.... Well if you just listen to any piece of Saddams trial you will realize how many terrible things he did to his OWN PEOPLE over the years he was in power and now that he is out of power that has stopped. So if nothing else this war in Iraq has put a stop to that.
Hi TexQuote:
Well if you just listen to any piece of Saddams trial you will realize how many terrible things he did to his OWN PEOPLE over the years he was in power and now that he is out of power that has stopped. So if nothing else this war in Iraq has put a stop to that
I don't believe in the conspiracy theory either, I also believe that today the biggest threat to our way of lives is "extremisim" or terrorists, however, if everyone were to do some research into the way Saddam Hussein behaved to his own people, you will find George Bush Sr's fingerprints on some of what he did (Kurds).
People have short memories when it come to these despots, for years, the US propped up the Shah of Iran, who brutalized his own people, why do you think the 1979 Hostage taking took place....score one for the extremists.
During the 10yr war between Iraq and Iran both sides were supported and supplied by both the then USSR and the USA, it was in the best interests of both the USSR and USA at the time, sort of hoping both sides would kill each other off? score 2 for the extremists
During the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, who do you think was being trained by the CIA to help the Mujahadeen into fighting against the Soviets...give yourself an A if you guessed Osama Bin Laden, so once the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan thanks in no small part to the well trained (CIA) Mujahadeen, they then turned on to the capital of Afghanistan and took control of it and became the "Taliban" score 3 for the extremists
Moral....."What you shall sow, so shall you reap", or what goes around comes around.If we could go back in time, I would insist that big buisiness interests (oil/arms) stay the ***** out of foreign affairs or stop lobbying the politicians into seeing their way is the right way...
End of Rant..... :rolleyes:
Sorry im a little fuzzy on history pre 1984 as I wasnt conceived yet :D but I will Google around and see what I can learn. I like to have a fair and balanced opinion of everything or at a least try :p
hahaha young man, don't think that lets you off the hook...... :p Yes there is a lot of reading out there for sure...Quote:
Originally posted here by The Texan
Sorry im a little fuzzy on history pre 1984 as I wasnt conceived yet :D but I will Google around and see what I can learn. I like to have a fair and balanced opinion of everything or at a least try :p
1.Iran/Contra
2. Shah of Iran
3. Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan
4. Iran/Iraq War
5. Kurds Not familiar with the source for this, but keep an open mind about it and try to tie in some of the other stuff.
Happy Reading...
I completly, 100% disagree with the whole documentary. I refuse to believe that the United States government will carry out such an attack. Here is some of the things the documentary pointed out to be proving it was a consipiracy:
A.) They said that an airplane did not crash into the pentagon, but instead a missle..so what are they trying to imply? that the united states government murdered a plane full of people on the side? Because there is a bunch of families whose family members were on that flight and died.
B.) They have some proof that some explosions might have been set off in the tower where the first plane hit, but the evidence supporting the tower were the first plane hit does not convince me at all. First of all, it mentioned that a building in x country lastest 17 hours burning and did NOT collapse. That is definately plausible. However, the building structure was not weaked by a plane traveling at 500+ mph. Also another reason that seems plausible in my mind (not sure if it's possible scientifically) is that perhaps some of the fuel did not immediately explode, but later exploded due to the fire.
C.) If you notice the exterior 'explosions' when the buildings where collapsing, you notice that they are generally the same width apart from where the building has collapsed. My explination is that was caused by the buckling of the building structure.
D.) They mention that the black boxes, or whatever the name was (I forgot this moment), only 8 out of 9, i believe they said were still able to be listened to, they said it was of flight 11..Well what about the one from Flight 93, which was played in the trial for Zacarias Moussaoui. In the tape you hear the terriosts saying they are trying to get into the cockpit, and you hear them banging on the cockpit doors. Which disproves that Flight 93 was shot down.
E.) They say that there were EYEWITNESS accounts, that saw two planes (which I'll later attempt to explain with information from a seperate documentary), and saw one fall from the sky and another women said that the plane flew right above her and her car. Well, first about the plane flying so low...earlier in the documentary they showed what happens when a car is too close to a plane...so what stopped it from happening in that same situation...?
About the plane being shot down, they later said they couldn't find any large pieces of the airplane itself in the aftermath..well that really shows one of two things, the credibility of their eye-witnesses or the credibility of the documentary itself, you be the judge of which is true.
F.) About the second plane, I watched a documentary on the discovery channel a while back about Flight 93 and the heros on it. It specifically mentioned that they DID see two plane crossed each other at different altitudes, but then one of the flights removed one of the transmitters, that transmit information about the flight (flight number, altitude, speed, etc) to the air base, but the plane still remained in flight and was very far away from the other plane when it crashed. (According to the documentary, the second plane was a commercial flight)
Weather or not you agree with my opinions, is up to you. But I refuse to believe that the United States government would pull off something to destructive and never be caught or ratted out by one of their former/current employees. If information about a possible terrorist attack leaked weeks before it was released to the public here in NYC, why wouldn't something this big leak?
That's how you dispell conspiracy theories every time...too many people involved for there to be a coverup...good grief, if Gotti couldn't keep one wise guy from blabbing, what makes everyone think the Gov't can, heck the gov't through "unknown sources" leak confidential/secret crap every day/week, whatever is convenient for "dis-information". That's how they do it, all the Gov't around the world leak dis-information, more or less to counter what is really going on, or to create "FUD".Quote:
Weather or not you agree with my opinions, is up to you. But I refuse to believe that the United States government would pull off something to destructive and never be caught or ratted out by one of their former/current employees. If information about a possible terrorist attack leaked weeks before it was released to the public here in NYC, why wouldn't something this big leak?
The randomness of these events,(targets) even though they appear orchestrated could never have been part of a major plot, too many loose threads, too many fingers in the pie so to speak...too much coordination required for the logistics involved by the supposedly gang of "traitors" to have been able to pull it off.
Oh and in case those that believe in the conspiracy theory want to put forward the argument that all Gov't employees would be afraid to come forward, not true, as long as every person on this planet has a weakness for anything they can be bought, if the price is right, also lets think about it, say you did have everyone in the Pentagon all the way from the Admiral down to the corporal who sits at the front desk convinced that this is an event propagated by the administration, you can bet someone in that chain would be a true patriot and do what's right....
One thing I do know is print media or videos can be altered to make it seem like what you are looking at is the real thing, it's called "propoganda" and if enough of it sells, then some of it will stick.Again FUD......I remember clearly watching the second plane hit the second tower on that morning, and I refuse to believe it was anything other then a commercial jetliner that was highjacked by extremists, also I refuse to believe that all of those who died on flight 93 were a figment of our imaginations, or that the big hole in the pentagon was made by a cruise missile or tomahawk.
People can believe what they want, and give their opinions, but as far as I am concerned, those that are ill informed should gather the facts by those that are professional and know what they are talking about then those who have a hidden agenda, such as politicians who in their opinion the towers had bombs planted..WTF, where did they get their degree in Civil Engineering, what do they know about Aeronautics....it's PR bullsh*t.....
You are very perceptive. I have run out of patience with IslamQuote:
I feel much hate and intolerance in here.
and hate it and refuse to tolerate it. call it what you like.
In 1968, when I was a liberal anti-war high school student,
an arab terrorist assassinated a US senator who was the
leading Democratic candidate in the presidential elections
that year. The senator.. Robert Kennedy.
Check any year between then and 2001 and you will find a long
string of assassinations, kidnappings, hijackings, bombings,
murders, rapes, invasions committed solely for the propagation
of Islamic Holy War.
Actually, we in the west are only recent victims of this abuse.
In India, the Muslims refuse to tolerate the majority Hindus,
because paganism is intolerable to them. Tolerance works
both ways. If they call me an "infidel", I'm not inclined to
tolerate their intolerance.
Islam is not a religion, it is a political ideology that tolerates
no rivals and no alternatives. In the west, we think of religion as
someone's ceremonies by which they relate to "the gods".
You say your prayers, burn some incense or sacrifice a
chicken, and then you go about your business. Maybe if you
are a Jehova's witness, you knock on doors and pitch your
ideas to anyone who will listen. It has been four hundred
years since it was considered acceptable to spread religion
by means of force, intimidation or war. Comparing Islam to
Christianity is apples and oranges.
:cool:
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread :D
9/11 was a act perpetrated by an extremeist element of the Muslim community...extremeists are not particular to Islam...there are all kinds of factions of them in the world from the neo-nazi's to the religious right...
this is the world we live in...it can be a pretty scary freak show kinda place...get a gun, lock your doors, hide your daughters, and don't go out after dark...
or live with it. ;)
Eg ;)
Yeah but he's a zombie, and keeps coming back. LOLQuote:
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread
:cool:
A lot of terrorists have used religion as the justification for their cause. It doesn't make the base religion wrong. The terrorist is the criminal, not the religion.
If you were an Irish Catholic or Protestant would you feel the same about the other religion even though both are Christian?
During the Iranian Hostage Crisis, I spent some time on "Camel Station" waiting to see if Pres Carter was going to invade or not. I read a translation of the Koran, when one is in combat one should understand his opponents thinking. It doesn't say half the stuff these clerics are telling their following. It is reminiscent of the Catholic Church in the middle ages, keep the mass in latin, our following doesn't read or write and they'll believe anything we tell them. Maybe the the clerics and imams got their cue from the crusades?
Maybe John Lennon had it right "What if there were no religion, nothing to fight and die for?"
But in this case it is wrong, and most of us know itQuote:
It doesn't make the base religion wrong
but are afraid to speak up for fear of what they might do to us,
or what our own traitors will do and say, accusing us of "intolerance"
It doesn't matter what I say, what matters is what Bin Laden will do.
He's got all the cards. Bush will be gone in two and a half years, who will the
conspiracy mongers blame when there's a Democrat in the White House?
They blamed Jimmy Carter too, and Reagan and Clinton, but the Koran is the
source of all this evil. It should be banned, and all those clerics should
have their beards burned off, their eyes put out, boiled in hot lard and
fed to a pack of wild dogs.
After that we really get tough.
:cool:
Wow traitors... so as a US citizen I should not want to support another religions right to worship in this country? All this time I thought we had the right to worhsip without persicusion. Should we also wave goodbye to the rest of our freedoms of expression?
Wait asecond I remember book burning and massive killings of another religion based on intollerence.... now who was that guy again... he was from that WWII era...Quote:
but the Koran is the source of all this evil. It should be banned, and all those clerics should
have their beards burned off, their eyes put out, boiled in hot lard and
fed to a pack of wild dogs.
Have you actually ever read it? It's not the book that is the source of all evil, it's man. Period.Quote:
but the Koran is the
source of all this evil. It should be banned, and all those clerics should
have their beards burned off, their eyes put out, boiled in hot lard and
fed to a pack of wild dogs.
Right. Isn't that why the US as a nation was first created??Quote:
All this time I thought we had the right to worhsip without persicusion.
Exactly what does "freedom of worship" have to do with
flying airplanes into office buildings? And by what incredible
leap of logic do some morons conclude that, in spite of the long
documented history of this stuff, going back decades, that somehow
GWB and Cheney decided to blow up those buildings in order to
start some useless wars?
Like I said, Bush is as good as retired (approval ratings around 30%).
Who are you going to blame when he's gone? Who are you going to
blame when Europe caves to Iranian nuclear blackmail and begins
to allow sharia law to exist in large Islamic communities across
the continent? What happens when those communities insist on
autonomy from their host countries?
This problem is not going to go away while we bicker amongst
ourselves and blame our own governments. I swear, I am an old hippie
and am probably more anti-government that most other people
who post on this forum, but some things are not the fault of
the government, the "neo-cons", or Halliburton. I wish it were that
simple.
:cool:
Religion is the excuse. It is still the individual that chooses to fly the plane into something or blow up a village.Quote:
Exactly what does "freedom of worship" have to do with flying airplanes into office buildings? And by what incredible leap of logic do some morons conclude that, in spite of the long
documented history of this stuff, going back decades, that somehow GWB and Cheney decided to blow up those buildings in order to start some useless wars?
Our western definition of "religion" is out of sync with theirs,
and is hopelessly naive. To them, religion is a total way of
life, enforceable by law. To us it is an optional "compartment"
in our personalities, so we are amazed that religion motivates
people to act. They, on the other hand are surprised
that, though many of us profess to belong to some religion or other,
we generally act on unstated principles that have nothing to
do with our "religion". Hypocrisy is the word for it. We are cowards
who will not fight to defend our civilization, or the philosophy upon which
it is based. We appear weak and ripe for conquest. That is why they
attack us.
:cool: