Hi all. I was wanting to go for a master program that would be useful for a career in computer security. I was looking at DePaul’s distance ed program:
http://www.cti.depaul.edu/programs/2...asp?print=true
What do the AO folks recommend?
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Hi all. I was wanting to go for a master program that would be useful for a career in computer security. I was looking at DePaul’s distance ed program:
http://www.cti.depaul.edu/programs/2...asp?print=true
What do the AO folks recommend?
Check out the Norwich offering at http://www.msia.norwich.edu/overview.htm. It is another of the IA centers for excellence. The faculty in this program are prominent and pretty good. I wish I had the time and cash to do this one. This one is about $26,000 plus a few things.
The University of Washington has an on-line master's program, as well. You can peruse them at:
http://www.grad.washington.edu/progs/gradprogs2.asp. They have a new Information Assurance program, which may not be listed here yet. But they are pricing it at $50,000 for an 18 month program (twice the Norwich, but nowhere near the quality of faculty or prominence).
The online programs provide a working professional with the opportunity to apply learnings to the current employer (with permission and support, of course). If I were younger, I'd go for the Norwich program in a heartbeat.
Anymore, it just seems like too much work.
Also be sure to look at offerings from:
1) Purdue
2) Stanford
3) U of So. Cal
4) Carnigie Mellon (sp)
All have excellent programs. Oh and if you wanna be like me, checkout NYU.
http://www.cs.nyu.edu/web/Academic/Graduate/msis.html
Keep in mind, you better have some serious bling lined up for any of these schools. Mine was 25 grand about 10 years ago.
--Th13
Rapier57 provided very good links (any NSA certified Center of Academic Excellence has a status/credibility of its own), but since i really don't know what kind of budget you have, try this:
http://www.elearners.com/online-degr...r-security.htm
/just_info: the links provided by rapier have an extra dot on the end (404 result)
cheers
Fixed the links. Sorry about that. Silly formatting issue.
Wow, the prices are giving me sticker shock.
LOL. Wait till you get the course load. Have fun with it and a full time job. Hope you're not married or you may not live long enough to earn the degree.
--TH13
Happens to the best ;)
hell...all the experience i have is either hands-on, from internships or >1000€ courses.Quote:
Wow, the prices are giving me sticker shock.
I suspected that some degrees the gurus from AO have would be expensive, but $25000?
i can by a Benz with that kind of ca$h :D
good luck
IronGeek I don't want to hijack this thread but I do.... th13 or IG do you know of any good schoold for undergrad that you can do distance learning? I too am here in Indiana so I have considered PU but dont think they do a lot of the stuff off campus... On the plus side my company will pay for all of it so I am willing to look anywhere as well.
Thanks...
Real, accredited undergrad programs are rare, online. There are diploma mills, but you don't want to go there. You might check out your local community colleges for the basic courses, some of which can be done online, then transfer that to a four-year college or university to finish out the BA or BS in whatever mode you can. The schools are starting to offer more and more hybrid on-campus/on-line courses. Once you have the BA/BS, then look at the masters programs.
BTW, I forgot to mention that SANS has a masters program:
http://www.sans.edu/
I think it will cost in the $26,000 range, too, once you have completed all the requirements.
From the elearners link, I saw that they listed Capella University. My manager has attended Capella University for her MBA and loved it. She had instructors from across the US that they would get from either the industry or would adjunct from another school: http://www.elearners.com/online-degree/4131.htm
Just another resource to check out.
Also - I finished my Masters while I had one kid. It wigged me out and my job performance went down slightly, but once a routine was worked out, everything went fine. Afterwards I was burnt out, just now coming out of it and I had finished in 2004. I am now thinking of a terminal degree in either a PhD or JD or another Masters, but one in security, like IG is looking to achieve.
Also-also - Irongeek - will your employer provide some form of reimbursement for this I hope?
HEYa Irongeek!
I have an associates degree in Computer Security Administration and I can guarantee you that with your knowledge you could complete the course in about a year and a half! It is an actual legitament degree, not a certificate or a degree from like ITT tech. You can get it from San Antonio College where I go! Anyways heres the info.
www.accd.edu
P.S.
They have pell grants to pay for you books and tuition and you do not have to pay them back.
If you want more info just hit me up at [email protected]
Good Luck,
Viralnexxus
I'm curious about something and this isn't an attempt to hijack this thread.
Why do you folks feel that a masters or a PhD in security is necessary for your career path? Are all of you looking to sit at a "C" level position such as CSO?
The reason I'm asking is because when you're at that level, you need a hell of a lot more skills than simply knowing how to NMAP scan a subnet. A CSO position is 99% business and perhaps 1% security.
Does this mean that technicians are actually striving to become business people? If so, whouldn't a masters in business be smarter if you already have an undergrad in CS? To me, this makes sense because you stand to sharpen many skill sets instead of just one.
Think about this people. I don't mean to sound like a parent but take it from someone who has some experience in these matters. ;)
Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.
--TH13
I'm a CISSP who decided to go back to college to complete my B.S. degree. I started to see even having my CISSP in the job postings wasn't enough. My current employer just wants me to have the cert but doesn't care about the degree. I don't think I'll be there the rest of my life. So, I decided last Jan to start a degree program at Mt. Sierra College (after researching other programs of course in Dec 2004). They have an excellent program in Information Security. Most of the other schools have a Computer Science Degree but I love information security work (not just programming or developing) and I only thought a degree in it would be fitting. I'm going Full Time while I am working Full Time as a Privacy and Security Coordinator for a large Hospital. It's a lot of work but I know when I graduate next Sept. it will be worth it. :D
All of the school cirriculum is online. Good interaction with other students through weekly postings and assignments. The cost is reasonable as well. I think it's $278 a credit right now. It's a 4 year degree program completed in 3 years. Four 11-week terms per year. It's the kind of program where I know a quarter to half the classes. So, it will enable me to take a couple 5-class terms and finish 3 months early. The school is accredited as well. The staff is very helpful through the entire program.
But keep in mind, online learning is really geared towards the type of person who can motivate themselves to ready, study and learn on their own. The type of person who needs someone to read the concepts and studies to them and then pound it into their brain, the online learning arena is likely not for you. But fortunately for me, I am self-motivated with most everything in my life, so it was just a natural fit. They also use ecollege.com on the backside and its been very stable and flexible. I can study and learn when I can and where ever I need to (e.g. Went on vacation in March and took my last final exam from the hotel room. That's flexibility!)
There are plenty of online classes out there these days, but if it's InfoSec you're looking for Irongeek, you should check out http://www.mtsierra.edu/online_p_information.php and look at their online InfoSec degree program. I don't get anything for referring to them (at least I don't think so! lol!). I'm just excited about the classes and the fact I can work full time, have a family and still hold a 3.5GPA. I'm halfway through the program and can see a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel!
hth,
Joe
Royal Holloway, University of London also runs a distance learning course at about £ 10000 pounds. These taught Masters courses seem to come in at around the same price. Have you considered a research degree, they are generally cheaper and you can choose to go for masters or doctorate level depending on your interests and requirements.
T
Hi,Quote:
Originally posted here by thehorse13
Why do you folks feel that a masters or a PhD in security is necessary for your career path? Are all of you looking to sit at a "C" level position such as CSO?
Does this mean that technicians are actually striving to become business people? If so, whouldn't a masters in business be smarter if you already have an undergrad in CS? To me, this makes sense because you stand to sharpen many skill sets instead of just one.
Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.
--TH13
It depends on what you want to achieve. Most taught Masters teach a mixture of technical and business skills and are particularly suited to someone with a bit of industry experience who wants to specialise in a technical area at a commercial level e.g. pen testing, consultancy.
Research degrees in the area tend to concentrate on security engineering problems although I have also come across some law and business related research - really these are for guys who either want to move into academia or commerial or government R&D. Or are just stupid (my IQ has just taken a severe nosedive).
I have also come across a professional doctorate program which combines on the job experience with taught courses and some more minor research opportunities. This would be a good career move for some one with extensive experience who needed a demonstrable qualification.
the professional qualifications including the sacred CISSP tend to just scratch the surface and don't go deep enough to satisfy real security gurus.
Business skills might be handy for some jobs but I would say the main skills are consultancy, negotiation and project management which don't require a full blown MBA program to achieve.
T
Well, I think that Hoss has a very valid point...............
If you think that you are a "geek" you are doomed................might as well join the French Foreign Legion IMO.............Quote:
Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.
Look at Gates, Ballmer, Jobs, and the rest of the drones...............do they have a masters in computer security?
No, but they know how to make money and enrich themselves, they know how to manipulate/deploy those who are narrow minded tekkies?
My advice will be contraversial:
GO FOR AN MBA!
That way all the EVP's/Directors can see that you have a qualification that they understand and respect
HR: "Do you have any professional qualifications?"
DRONE: "Well I have a CISSP"
HR: "Err, no, that goes in the physical disabilities part of the application form"
(HR = "Human Remains" for those who have led a sheltered life
:D )
Just my view, but for 25,000 bucks an MBA is for life.....................who knows what computer security will involve in 10 years' time?
Sorry to be cynical, but this is what I have seen in over 30 years' of work experience :(
Actually Nihil, your view is not off the mark at all. In fact, it's dead on.
Here is why I brought this up.
The security industry is going to go through another major change very soon (in fact, it has already begun). In my opinion, business skills will be the desired combo with technical security skills.
Tools are being dumbed down much like when HTML editors began auto generating code. The l33t HTML coders who could write up pages in notepad were being outdone by housewives with auto generating HTML tools. This is also happening now with scanning appliances, Risk Assessment tools, all-in-one network appliances, and so on. A first year IT tech can easily setup a firewall, VPN, IDS and IPS with a single appliance and almost no security knowledge. All he/she has to do is know how to configure the settings on a NIC card and possibly a spanning port on a router/switch.
The point is that I can already see the fork in the road that I predicted years back. This is why I have a masters in business, and an undergrad in CIS. Businesses don't care about your alphabet soup (this goes for me as well) anymore. They want someone who can "show them the money".
Face it folks, the shine has worn off the security sector and now CEOs want to see hard returns on their investment in our trade. This isn't going to happen by simply installing AV and such. You're going to have to get your hands dirty and dig into the core business practices, understand them, classify them, streamline them and finally, secure them.
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE GOING. LIVE IT, LEARN IT. More or less, I feel that you're wasting your time and money getting a masters in CIS unless you're going into one of a handful of *highly* specialized areas of research. Even then, these areas could dry up overnight.
If you want to read a little bit about what I'm talking about, see this:
http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/se...le.php/3593756
--TH13
i agree with both thehorse13 and nihil that going for masters in CIS after doing bacelors in CIS is not that effective as compared to doing MBA. But what you guys think or suggest that for how long one should work in info. security (at technical level) before attempting for MBA. As whats in my case is that i have bachlors in computer science and working in industry for 1.5 years after completing my degree. So is this right time to purse MBA or should i work more before going for MBA?
Thanks
Based on how I believe the industry is shifting, it would be appropriate for you to stay employed in the infosec area while pursuing the MBA. You can always get more technical certs along the path to your MBA.
In the words of master ship builder Andrews, "Go now. Don't wait."
The way I have seen things going, at least over here, is that your IT qualification is your passport to your chosen area of the IT industry, whilst your MBA is your key to senior management positions.
When I started out (and one had to avoid dinosaur turds on the sidewalk back then :D ) there were precious few IT degrees and even fewer "certifications". In fact, there weren't any PCs as such, and there was no internet as we know it.
Industry recruited its people from existing sectors such as engineering, finance, marketing and so on. In other words, they took people with business/commercial expertise and trained them in computing.
Anyone here remember the IBM System3, S/32, S/34, S/38, 4300, 3080?.............. scraped up dinosaur droppings with 80-column punched cards? :D
My point is that back then, they took people with business knowledge and taught them computing. Now they take people with IT training and expect them to learn business. The "requirement" is the same, but the whole thing has gone full circle.............almost "chicken and egg"?
Another way of looking at it is if I get my first degree in accountancy, then pass my CPA (ACA over here) exams, which would involve three years articled to a professional accountancy firm (in the UK at least)..............what would be the point in getting a masters or doctorate in accountancy, unless I wanted to be an academic?
Just my thoughts
:)
I actually have to disagree about the diploma mill comment. I've seen the coursework that is required at schools like University of Phoenix, or Western International University and they require quit a bit more of their 1000 and 2000 level courses than anything that I experienced going to a top state school. Most of my undergrad the teachers didn't care if you showed up to lectures, you just had to show up for any labs, turn in assignments, and take your exams. The better online schools have very strict online participation requirements.Quote:
Originally posted here by rapier57
Real, accredited undergrad programs are rare, online. There are diploma mills, but you don't want to go there. You might check out your local community colleges for the basic courses, some of which can be done online, then transfer that to a four-year college or university to finish out the BA or BS in whatever mode you can. The schools are starting to offer more and more hybrid on-campus/on-line courses. Once you have the BA/BS, then look at the masters programs.
I've taken courses at junior colleges, state 4 year schools, and a top private school and they all offered online classes. In most cases the online classes involved a lot more work to make up for the lack of lecture. In almost all cases major state universities are offering full online degree programs. Might be expensive for out of state tuition, but there are certainly a lot of good online options.
IronGeek,
I started taking classes in Information Assurance this past semester at Iowa State, through their Engineering Distance Education program. I liked it because I could take one class at a time - easier on the wife, kids, and bank aco****. The content is delivered through streaming lectures that you can watch live or download. The one class I've taken has been great. The video lectures are high quality and you have access to the computer engineering network for testing/playing/homework through SSH or remote desktop. I also liked the fact that after 4 classes I could get an Information Assurance certificate and then continue on for the full Masters if I wanted. It is a regular IA State diploma, no online designations etc. The program has the NSA designation as well.
Certificate
Masters
My $.02. Good luck with your decision.
mike
TH13 - you hit the nail on the head there. All of us in our IT auditing department have or are getting our MBAs or Masters, then meebe going for the certs. Our management supports going after certs, just so we look better to our clients, for me that also include a monthly shower and shave, whether I need it or not. I have seen "kids" finish their bachelor's and go right into their MBA program, it's not even a second thought anymore.Quote:
Based on how I believe the industry is shifting, it would be appropriate for you to stay employed in the infosec area while pursuing the MBA. You can always get more technical certs along the path to your MBA.
In the words of master ship builder Andrews, "Go now. Don't wait."
Something else to consider... if you want a terminal degree, people may wish to also pursue a PhD in Organizational Management or related field. However, some organizations, or rather, the people in organizations, tend to still see PhDs as an indicator that you want to be a professor or scientist; at least in our organization. Me? I am looking to pursue my JD and focus on Intellectual Property...yep I love the "dark side", first auditing then legal - bwah-hah-hah-hah!
*ahem... also TH13 is correct the field is already shifting in IT and it's security related arenas, security is still important in the business, but employers want you well-rounded, and I'm not talking about maxing out your daily burrito intake. They want the technical, business and interpersonal skills... mad skillz. Basically, the end-goal, highly trained, educated and experienced IT generalists that can specialize if needed.