A legal/moral/ethical question

Hi, I have a curious question for all of you. I will try and make a long story short.
2 Years ago my Great Grandmother died at 91 ( God rest her soul) anyway today I was on Ancestry.com ( they have a free promo deal) and I saw her death certificate. It has her FULL social security number on it! That got me to thinking someone could use that to create a fake identity. So I figured I would apply for a credit card with it. ( I havent done it yet)
Should I

A) Apply for the card with her name and social security number with my address

B) Apply for the card with MY name and address with her social security number

C) Try and get her social security number removed

D) Apply for the card then go straight to the cops and tell them what I did so I dont get in trouble.
I think its technically illegal but all im doing is exposing a potential security flaw. I wont even use the card if I get it, I will take it straight to the cops.

I realize this might sound stupid but I really just want to see if they will actually issue the card. Would they really prosecute me for this even though I mean no harm?

Don't most hackers, when caught and facing trial, say they were "just exposing a security flaw"? ;)

It's identity theft, plain and simple. I have no doubt that if you applied for a credit card with her name and ss#, it would be issued. I went thru the same thing with an elderly aunt, both before and after her death. It was a mess, but that's beside the point really - I would not suggest any of your list except trying to have her ss# removed.

I would go with deb on this contact the site and explain to them that it would be best if they didn't show the social security when showing the cert. If you do any thing else you are looking for trouble especially now days in the states.

Wow....

Get the ss# removed.......


Seems to be alot of this kinda info out there in the US ...for anyone to use :(

The US need some kind of law to stop this type of information being posted on a web site...or being given out so freely.....

Heres some other recent posts on how personal info so freely flows..

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=275685

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...328#post905328


Dont you think your homeland security should be cracking down on this :rolleyes:

MLF

Don't do what's illegal -- however, ask them to get the SS# removed when they show those certificates. If that doesn't work, go to a lawyer or to authorities.

I concur with most here. While information security may still be in its infancy, applying for a credit card with information that is not your own boils down to simple fraud whose laws are well established. By going through with this just to "prove a flaw" will only make the prosecution's case against you stronger. Vigilante's are still not embraced by the legal community.

On a positive note, I believe that Ancestry.com may be in violation of something here, and by notifying them of their mistake they may be much obliged. If they blow you off, talk to a lawyer.

Cases A, B, and D can get you up to 30 years in a federal prison and fines up to $1 million, which are the maximum punishments provided for knowingly providing false credit information (which is what you would be doing in all three cases).

There's nothing illegal about what Ancestry.com is doing, btw. The information comes from the Social Security Death Index, which contains information on most deaths after 1962 (you can search the index for free at Rootsweb), or from the Death Master File.
If you died and the death was reported to the SSA, you're in that list. I don't think you can ask for records to be removed from it (the Constitution only covers the living... )

Negative : that's fair, but how easy should it be to get full access to a person's credentials?

Trevoke: all the information that can be obtained through the Master Death Record is public information anyway. The SSN is not, but that shouldn't matter for the deceased (their credit has been "cut off" - if Texan would try to get a credit card with her credentials, a bunch of red flags will go off as every entity dealing with credit (banks, employers...) uses that list). That's all theoretical, of course... you never know in this country :D

Negative : that's kinda the point : you never know! It's the state of security in this country which is a problem.
If you get a credit card with this information, you can order one thing, get it dropped off on a PO box which you open with the same info, pick it up, disappear, do the same with another dead person's info.

The SSN's that you find on Ancestry.com actually come from the US Government. Unfortuanately that information is available as public information. Death, Birth, and Census info is all available from the US Government. Ancestry.com has just compiled the data.

On a slightly different note, I was looking into how and when is an SSN reissued?
If you come across anything please post a reply. Thanks in advance.

People have been doing this for decades...before they'd look at the Obits in a newspaper, make a few fake calls to relatives of the deceased, then apply for Birth cert...etc...then go get a few credit cards under that identity...max them out...do it again.

The internet just makes it easier...the point is speed...get the deed done as fast as you can before anyone figures it out...then go on to the next one.

They should ' black out ' information like that...it'll slow them down...and slow means ' caught '.

Eg ;)

In an ideal world, there would definately be "red flags" on people who've passed on. In most cases though, there aren't. In my aunts case, the same jackass who took advantage of her information while she was alive continued to do it until they were finally caught. I absolutely refused to quit hounding the police - I think I got more action out of them because the fraud had begun before she passed though. I'm not sure how concerned they would really have been if she'd been dead before they started using her info. They did however definately get new credit in her name well after her death.

Well the concenus seems to be that if I do this I will have a girlfriend named bubba for about 20+ years so I dont think I will do it but I really do wish there was a way a could inform the police about this beforehand and they would let me "test" it to see if it would actually work but I doubt they will let me do it. My intentions are good but they prolly dont care.

Check with your local reps, maybe they can take it from there and go public with this information or at least start to ask questions about how the numbers are too easily available, some reps like crusades, and some places don't like the negative publicity, check around, you are probably not the only one who notices this laxness. ;)

On the flip side if John Smith died and no one knew he had a credit card with Bobs gas station. That could be worse? The only way to reasonably identify unclaimed property is with the social and the only way to get the social is via public access. There could be 1000 john smiths dying this month. All with unlclaimed debt, propery, cars etc. If one didn't get closed that could be worse?
As for the US having laws to protect against unauthorized SSN use. We have several starting with he Privacy Act of 1978 and as recently as 1998. You have to have a way to itentify a deceased person and just like birth it has to be publically accessible. Otherwise only the government would know. Talk about big brother.

One thing you could do is go to a bank, IN PERSON, with all the important documentation (aka printouts of the website, addresses, procedures) and say you would like to see a manager. When you are asked why, explain what your concern is, and ask them what the best way to test the system without breaking the law is... ?

Trev, I like your Idea i will try that and see what they say

UPDATE: I called the social security admin number and asked about this, they werent much help though. they gave me the generic answer "if someone tries to get a card in her name its a felony and they will go to jail". so im just gonna drop it at that even though im pretty sure I could get a card with her SSN if i wanted.

I'd be more worried about someone registering my deceased grandmother as a libertarian for the next general election. :D