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7 Nabbed in Sears Tower PlotQuote:
MIAMI - Seven people were arrested Thursday in connection with the early stages of a plot to attack Chicago's Sears Tower and other buildings in the U.S., including the FBI office here, a federal law enforcement official said.
Now there lawyers are crying entrapment because they swore an oath of allegiance to OBL to an FBI agent. big friggen deal!
These "black muslim" guys planned mass murder inside this country. The fbi didn't make those plans.
BTW in your link the word "muslim" does not appear once. another case of " a broad spectrum of socity" case.
Hey Hey,
I was wondering how lon git would take for this to be posted... has anyone seen the actual press conferences or better yet the section on I believe it was the Daily Show??? that played the press conferences??
These guys had said something about doing it.... I bet half the users of this forum have said at some point "Man I wish I could blow up.... "
The US government realizes they're losing their fear grasp on the general public and this helps then regain that hold.... One woman on one of the news reports actually said "I was just starting to not be afraid and now I'm full of fear again"..
Why is this nothing more than a government scam.... to quote the authorities in the press conference..
"They had no written plans or detailed plans on what they were going to do.... they'd simply made mention of it"
"They had no weapons and had no means of obtaining those weapons that we're aware of"
Q: "Had they been to the sears tower to check out the site"
A: "We're unaware of them ever having been there... however a number of years ago one of them were in chicago"..
This is complete BS and nothing else... It's a real shame
Between the New York Times being a terrorist cell that's hurting the American Public and damaging the war on terror and this.... and just when I was starting to have some respect for the the Americans I know... but I guess you guys get off lucky... You can't really hurt a group of people (Americans) that have absoluately no positive image left... it's just sad that none of you are willing to stand up and stop this BS...
Peace,
HT
You made perfect sense until your last paragraph, HT. You just have to inject that little bit of "all Americans are stupid, and deserve no respect (and preferably deserve to die)", don't you? So you were starting to have some respect for the the (sic) Americans you know, and this "thing" ruined it? It's a good thing that most people don't think like you do, or the world would be full of people of the opinion that Canadians are arrogant, fat, full of themselves without much reason to be so, and eager to tell the world about their every single move"
Now go ahead and start your routine ;)
PS: Did you see the whole press conference or just the Daily Show fragment?
Ok, I just have to say this, I dont beleive those 7 guys could have taken out a corner store much less a guarded building. I think this was something to pull the medias eyes away from scrutinizing the real issues that have been at hand.
The NY Times, this isn't their first run in with uncle sam. Yet they keep releasing news that gets them fined and caught up in litigation. They do keep getting the news to the public.
Standing up to uncle sam is dangerous. Protesting is pointless, Theres no one in congress I would write. I dont think they care. If you managed to put a little dent in their day, youd get a dent in your life.
Personnaly I have been considering moving out of the US, but of course then I would have to deal with being the disliked american. In the current state of affairs I wouldnt be suprised if I could get asylum somewhere.
I've seen the majority of the press conference between various sources and read enough of the reports..Quote:
Originally posted here by Negative
You made perfect sense until your last paragraph, HT. You just have to inject that little bit of "all Americans are stupid, and deserve no respect (and preferably deserve to die)", don't you? So you were starting to have some respect for the the (sic) Americans you know, and this "thing" ruined it? It's a good thing that most people don't think like you do, or the world would be full of people of the opinion that Canadians are arrogant, fat, full of themselves without much reason to be so, and eager to tell the world about their every single move"
Now go ahead and start your routine ;)
PS: Did you see the whole press conference or just the Daily Show fragment?
I really didn't say all Americans were stupid... I said I lost the respect I'd starting to give Americans... There's a difference...
To allow this sort of "fear mongering" to exist... to accept it.. and post it here as "fact" is enough to blow that respect away...
To see every American media outlet attack the NY Times for publishing the article... it's ridiculous...
I'm just trying to understand how people can live in the US and not speak out about this... but instead see the 7 "terrorists" and the NY Times as the real problems... There's gotta be Americans somewhere that can open their eyes and see it's nothing more than government ploys... but from what I've read here that isn't the case..
Do you live in the "home of the brave and land of the free" or Nazi Germany???Quote:
Standing up to uncle sam is dangerous. Protesting is pointless, Theres no one in congress I would write. I dont think they care. If you managed to put a little dent in their day, youd get a dent in your life.
I guess it just bothers me that on a forum populated mainly by Americans the only one willing to speak out against the attrocities committed by the American government is a Canadian... everyone else is willing to sit back, be complacent and accept the lies and "fear-mongering"
Peace,
HT
We love you too HT. The government is freaked out about every lead because people like you told them they didn't do enough after the whole world was still dumb **** that Al Gore was defeated. You would think the dude was Gandhi dressed in black limousines, trust funds, oil money, private jets and power. Or that it was some oil scam. So who's scamming who? World governments with an axe to grind? Fat Americans who listen to the New York times, the daily show, rush Limbaugh, Alan Colmes, lamb chops? Or the US government trying to make up ground upon the backs of innocent poor black people. When I see some of those things on TV I think one man... OJ. They might be innocent, but if they had not been arrested you would cry that Bush and the "Republican Lead Congress" has failed and deserves to be impeached. Saying something isn't a crime, except when a man threatens a woman in the US. So they will get their date in court. A "news conference" based on testimony of an accused is not fact. The trial should be... unless you are OJ. Then "if the glove does not fit, you must acquit"
/Edit your idea of atrocity is my idea of progress in a world populated by people who pretend to be educated. And even their last 100 years of recorded history is trumped by the Daily Show and the Sony Play Station.
I get where your coming from, also I know one amercian that flat out stated his opions and some unsavory facts about congress and homeland secuity on a public forum that can and will be found by anyone that looks. Hmm germany, I here thats a nice place to live. I do have one question for you though. Why does the whole subject matter to you so much? I know why I riles me up, election year is a good ways off and Im pretty sure their rigging them anyway. Hmm we could all move to cananda in protest. :)Quote:
I guess it just bothers me that on a forum populated mainly by Americans the only one willing to speak out against the attrocities committed by the American government is a Canadian... everyone else is willing to sit back, be complacent and accept the lies and "fear-mongering"
It matters to me for a number of reasons...Quote:
Originally posted here by spamdies
I get where your coming from, also I know one amercian that flat out stated his opions and some unsavory facts about congress and homeland secuity on a public forum that can and will be found by anyone that looks. Hmm germany, I here thats a nice place to live. I do have one question for you though. Why does the whole subject matter to you so much? I know why I riles me up, election year is a good ways off and Im pretty sure their rigging them anyway. Hmm we could all move to cananda in protest. :)
1) I don't like that we live next to an unstable society where free speech is outlawed... I can't help but think of Bush as Hitler and that Canada is the next Poland... We still allow free speech and don't attach our newspapers for publishing the truth, or arrest individuals for doing nothing but saying "Oh man.. wouldn't it be cool if... "
2) More and more Americans want to "get out" and come to Canada... but instead of leaving to get away from problems... they bring the problems here and try to change our country...
3) Lastly, I have to hear about it... I'd stand up and say something but it's not my country and I have no rights there...
I figure that while elections are coming up that long before you reach that point I'll turn on the TV and see a scrolling marque across the bottom of the screen.
"Attention: All citizens who not white and religious, please report to the retraining centers. Upon arrival at these centers, please fully douse yourself in gasoline before climbing into the training pits. This will help to ease the burden on our trainers as they come by to ignite your mind, body and soul"
RC: All I have to say to you is that if the Government wants to instill fear in the American people (as it so obviously does)... then it doesn't matter what is fact and what isn't... these 7 people will be found guilty simply because the Bush needs them to be to continue his terror regime...
America is being held hostage by terrorists.... and the terrorists are the government.... it's sad.
HT someone complaining about a news story is not the same thing as arresting them and hailing free speech dead.
As for Americans coming up there.. don't let them in. I hate it when Canadians try and change our country. In technical government terms we are the freest nation on earth. No democratic parliamentary government that exists gives more power to the people than America. None. People confuse freedom with free speech and in some cases, like the Netherlands they have some more supposed free speech in the form of a magazine of a fat chick blowing a horse. That is not freedom in my opinion. I also hate it when people come from Cali and New York and try to change Colorado to be a mirror of their shitty society. Imagine a Cowboy this Saturday. Yes we still have REAL Cowboys, he can't even smoke a ****ing cigarette with is Budweiser after Saturday. It's illegal. Who is Hitler? The socialist liberal or the conservative Christan? Hitler was a health nut vegetarian who liked black leather. You'll find his type in San Fransisco. He was also an authoritative war monger. I would say Bush fits that scenario but he can't fight his way out of a paper bag because he doesn't have permission.
HT:
I find it difficult to listen to a person complain about some one else not standing up against their government when they them selves can't prove they'd do the same and make an actual difference. You always make all these bold statements and claims. You are safe and can make all these empty statements because you don't live here and prove your actions are as mighty as your mouth.
I rarely say anything on this site, but it chaps my butt when I have to sit here and see others make all these bold statements when it appears to me it is all talk. It's real easy for you to be so brave from your foreign seat. Have you stood up against your own country? Don't recall seeing you in the news? Are you the ALL seer now, how are you so sure no one standing up, because it's not in the news, the news you claim to be questionable to begin with?
Sit down, shut up and quit ruining my day
Let me just quote Webster:
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.
Having experienced life in several countries of the world, all I can say is I am profoundly humbled and grateful that the United States of America exists. I am not naive in that I know the USA has its elitists, secret societies, and general social ills. What country doesn't? What I do see is a place that has benefited millions of people other than her own citizens. It is an open society, I daresay more than any other currently.
It is always easy to be a part of the problem and criticize and there will always be those that try to subject others to their will. However, I am grateful that we have the ability to complain and become involved locally and nationally to try and effect a change for the better. Unfortunately it appears to me that all I see is more whining from both the outside and inside versus actual involvement.
Still, I have been fortunate to be able to CHOOSE and I choose the freedoms of the United States of America. We have the ability to make a difference. If there is an injustice, then let us find solutions. We have 7 individuals arrested under suspicion of Terrorism. Weigh all the facts and please avoid the rhetoric.
Enough said, back to lurking.
P.S. It is bigotry and prejudices that will doom us all to anarchy.
HT you speak as if there were not a world war going on.
That's because there isn't. The "War on Terror" is not a world war... it's a vindictive man using the resources available and at his discretion to attack people for fun... The real terrorist is Bush... and the war he's waging is a personal one... I'm really surprised Tedob... I expected you to be intelligent enough to see through the fear mongering... I guess everyone has weaknesses where they believe what they are told to believe... (It's similar to how the majority of people believe in Global Warming)...Quote:
The current "World War" and "Global Warming" are just the latest fads... snipe hunting got old... so now snipe hunters without a clue are using those buzz words for their new hunts..
judgement: It's a shame you didn't experience life in Canada... a place where the cops don't beat you needlessly, where the government doesn't attempt to have total control of your every thought.. You talk about prejudice and bigotry... that's what the US was founded on I do believe... if not.. well it's sure all that's evident there.
Opus: No offense intended... but you can go **** yourself... You're entitled to be complacent and believe everything your told... (Btw... did the easter bunny have sex with the tooth fairy yet)... but I'd rather think for myself.
RoadClosed: it's a little more than a few people complaining.. it's the government criticising free speech.. As for you being the "freest" nation... once agin... come join us here in Canada... We don't monitor your bank transactions, record every call you make and want to see who's visiting your MySpace page.
Speaking of which... I was quite surprised to learn that having content logs and visitor logs for MySpace would help the "War on Terrorism"... and you think your Government gives you freedom... The US Government is nothing more than Big Brother.
Peace,
HT
HT the government is a bit out of control on free speech. Of course having an opinion as a human in office and actually doing something about it are two very different circumstances. The left in congress says it all the time as well. If GW and his minions went up to the NY Times an actually arrested someone. That would be a different story.
If I was going to move someplace it wouldn't be Canada. I like Canada don't get me wrong. I have been to every province a few times. Except NewFoundland and I just barely hit the Northwest territories at Inuvik. Talk about the middle of no-****ing-where.
I think I would get tired of all the bitching and besides, it is JUST like the USA. Same ****- different parallel, different dialect. I would choose the middle east. I miss the afternoon drum of the call to prayer while sipping spiked tea, eating fresh figs and enjoying the air of beautiful woman who haven't yet degraded men to house servants. You just have to dodge a bullet or two once in a while. Whether its the Peoples front of Judea or the Judean People Front.. there is always someone pissed of at somebody enough to kill them. Only a very few direct their anger at the US. Outside of that no-one gives a ****.
HTRegz said:
As expected, your typical type of reaction, HT. You attack the person, of which your reply has nothing in response to any of my statements.Quote:
Opus: No offense intended... but you can go **** yourself... You're entitled to be complacent and believe everything your told... (Btw... did the easter bunny have sex with the tooth fairy yet)... but I'd rather think for myself.
You sure put me in my place! That'll teach me.
[edit]
Btw: Maybe your government doesn't monitor you, but ours does, and your government get their info from us. What's the difference?
[/edit]
I'm reporting this thread to the CIA. You may expect the SWAT team at your doorQuote:
The US Government is nothing more than Big Brother.
within the hour.
:cool:
Every transaction over $5000 (could be $50,000, but I think it's $5,000) is reported to the Bank of Canada. So much for that.Quote:
We don't monitor your bank transactions
[edit re: proof]
Seems that it's actually international transactions of $10,000 or more that are monitored here, and "large cash transactions", which are defined asQuote:
The Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Regulations require financial institutions and intermediaries, including legal counsel, to report to the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada (FINTRAC) certain financial transactions, such as large cash transactions and international EFTs of $10,000 or more. They also require reporting entities to ascertain the identity of their clients whether they are individuals, corporations or other entities, keep certain records and implement an internal compliance program.
sourceQuote:
Large cash transactions
Large cash transactions involving amounts of $10,000 or more received in cash, must be reported.
[/edit]
And that officially proves Godwin's Law, yet again. Please don't compare Bush to Hitler. It's ludicrous. As much as I may hate his foriegn and domestic policies, he is no Hitler. By stooping to a Hitler reference, you have officially lost this debate.Quote:
can't help but think of Bush as Hitler and that Canada is the next Poland...
[edit]
hrm... can't link to Godwin's Law because of the apostrophe in the URL. It is easily findable on Wikipedia
[/edit
Godwin's Law is great and all.. but sometimes it's true... and this is a case where, I believe, the comparison holds water... Bush just hasn't had enough time to reach that level yet... Now.. if Bush pulls out of the Middle East and Nukes the **** outta North Korea... then I'll fully support him... that's an example of where there is no peaceful solution and it's at the point where there is actual reason to go in....Quote:
And that officially proves Godwin's Law, yet again. Please don't compare Bush to Hitler. It's ludicrous. As much as I may hate his foriegn and domestic policies, he is no Hitler. By stooping to a Hitler reference, you have officially lost this debate.
Had Bush never gone into Iraq and just chosen to wipe out North Korea I might have actually said he was a good leader.... but if he acts appropariately here and covertly nukes the place then he'll have mostly made up for his actions in Iraq.
Nope, it is July 4th so I gave them the day off :p "Happy Birthday" you guys :DQuote:
I'm reporting this thread to the CIA. You may expect the SWAT team at your door within the hour.
Seriously, this transaction monitoring has been going on for years......... it is aimed at tax evasion, drugs, organised crime............. if you think about it, terrorism doesn't generally involve large sums of money?
Korea confuses me. There is only one conclusion. Kim has gotten too old to be sensible. He eradicated all his opposition so there is no one left to deny his insanity. He is like Hitler. Bush doesn't come close. I thought the same thing about Pakistan and India. No one cared then because Clinton was in Office. It's not our repsonsibility they say. I am sure we could easily level the palace of Kim once day. No nukes. But then what? Iraq 2 - are we willing to deal with the consequences when a government transistions from extreme opressive socialism to anarchy? I am. Maybe the rest of the world will help this time. If not.. boom. And Iraq would have done the same. In fact Sadam would have been six or more years into it by now.
Bush stepped away from the korea issue, almost entirely, urging the contries surronding n. korea to step in. Many contries, japan, Australia, s korea are calling for "swift UN action."Quote:
Godwin's Law is great and all.. but sometimes it's true... and this is a case where, I believe, the comparison holds water... Bush just hasn't had enough time to reach that level yet... Now.. if Bush pulls out of the Middle East and Nukes the **** outta North Korea... then I'll fully support him... that's an example of where there is no peaceful solution and it's at the point where there is actual reason to go in....
I have not been able to find anything on what the officials from Canada have said on this issue. But honestly, I havent looked to hard for it either. Personally, I would have no problem if the US decided not to intercede at all. Why should we spend the lives of our troops on world problems that other counrtys should be involved with as well. Koreas nukes can effect Canada as well, this isnt just a US issue. I think the canadians should step up to the bar and deploy some troops and bleed a little. Not just canada though but all the countries that refuse to deploy their resources during world wide crisis such as these. We already have military cemetaries that have literally hundrends of thousands of graves that were nearly all filled on foreign soil.
It easy to say move the troops from here to there when your not one of them. Before you can expect me to not blow that off, I expect you to march with them .
Do they teach history in the States?? The US was the last country to step into every major war... They like to sit out of it... Canada is the country that has always gone into the wars that don't involve them and help out... That's why every American that I know (outside this site) had put a Canadian flag on their backpack when going to Europe... Canada helped... the US just shut their doors until they were affected... and now you want to do that again?? So the US should step on foreign soil without real reason and then step back every time something real is going on in the world?? When the US steps into a war to help out someone other than themselves... then I'll be impressed you may have many graves that were filled on foreign soil but so do other countries... and those other countries gave selflessly...Quote:
Originally posted here by spamdies
Bush stepped away from the korea issue, almost entirely, urging the contries surronding n. korea to step in. Many contries, japan, Australia, s korea are calling for "swift UN action."
I have not been able to find anything on what the officials from Canada have said on this issue. But honestly, I havent looked to hard for it either. Personally, I would have no problem if the US decided not to intercede at all. Why should we spend the lives of our troops on world problems that other counrtys should be involved with as well. Koreas nukes can effect Canada as well, this isnt just a US issue. I think the canadians should step up to the bar and deploy some troops and bleed a little. Not just canada though but all the countries that refuse to deploy their resources during world wide crisis such as these. We already have military cemetaries that have literally hundrends of thousands of graves that were nearly all filled on foreign soil.
It easy to say move the troops from here to there when your not one of them. Before you can expect me to not blow that off, I expect you to march with them .
Of course they teach history in the US, and like every version of it, just like in every other country, including Canada, it is slanted to serve the interests of those who were or are in power. Yes, Canada helped, so did the US, just later. You always paint Canada in the best of light, which I would think would be patriotic, however in seeing your other posts, you are guilty of the same crimes you charge against the US, in particular, self-righteousnous, sticking your nose in matters that do not concern you, and selfishness. I regard Canada and Canadians, save Quebec, as one of our strongest allies and counels, however, in seeing your poison, I do not count you among that number, for you, like few others I have witnessed, will never be happy with my country, and that is as you state many times "quite saddening." Do not speak about selfishness or selfless acts, when you are selfish in your posts in that you derive distinct pleasure in slamming the US.Quote:
Do they teach history in the States?? The US was the last country to step into every major war... They like to sit out of it... Canada is the country that has always gone into the wars that don't involve them and help out... That's why every American that I know (outside this site) had put a Canadian flag on their backpack when going to Europe... Canada helped... the US just shut their doors until they were affected... and now you want to do that again?? So the US should step on foreign soil without real reason and then step back every time something real is going on in the world?? When the US steps into a war to help out someone other than themselves... then I'll be impressed you may have many graves that were filled on foreign soil but so do other countries... and those other countries gave selflessly...
War - and helping someone else out. I think you need to re-read various history texts. No country goes to war with something not at stake; for you to state that "... those other countries gave selflessly" to what - war? Are you insane? That statement alone tells me 1) you are intelligent 2) you are opinated 3) you know nothing about the world - at least not yet.
And who the hell cares if you are impressed? Because you have an opinion, believe you have some sort of superior moral high ground and continually flaunt your country as the end-all-be-all, anyone else is to give a royal rip or be impressed themselves?
Also, and I am at this point, just trying to understand your viewpoint. Iraq - ok - so you are against the US being in Iraq - point taken and understood. North Korea:
? - nuke Korea. ? What makes you think that nuking North Korea is ok?Quote:
Godwin's Law is great and all.. but sometimes it's true... and this is a case where, I believe, the comparison holds water... Bush just hasn't had enough time to reach that level yet... Now.. if Bush pulls out of the Middle East and Nukes the **** outta North Korea... then I'll fully support him... that's an example of where there is no peaceful solution and it's at the point where there is actual reason to go in....
Had Bush never gone into Iraq and just chosen to wipe out North Korea I might have actually said he was a good leader.... but if he acts appropariately here and covertly nukes the place then he'll have mostly made up for his actions in Iraq.
What about the innocent lives you decry about Iraq? Are there not innocent lives in North Korea? What about the innocent lives in the neighboring countries? How do you know a peaceful solution cannot be attained - are you a trained and experienced diplomat? Have you talked with the North Korean leaders? Have you conversed with the other world leaders? And if President Bush pulls out of Iraq and nukes North Korea - then you will support him?
Also, why are you not enraged about China's and Russia's stance in dealing with North Korea? From CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc....us/index.html
HTRegz - you are becoming what you hate... American. You should move to Quebec before you are "corrupted" further.Quote:
"This is the view of the international community, that actions taken should be constructive to maintaining peace in that part of the world," Chinese Ambassador Wang Guangya said.
China is one of five permanent council members, including Russia, with veto power and, as North Korea's neighbor, is Pyongyang's main provider of food, oil and economic aid (Security Council facts).
Another Chinese diplomat said after the meeting, "We still don't see the need for a resolution."
Hey Hey,
I want to get to genXer's post.. but there was one thing about spamdies post that bothered me and that I needed to do a little research on
To speak technically, they can... but only through fallout... The range of the missiles they are testing is at most 4300KM... allowing them to hit parts of Alaska and possibly Hawaii. (As a side note: it's affect... not effect)Quote:
Koreas nukes can effect Canada as well, this isnt just a US issue
Not everywhere slants their history books... The US really wasn't much of a help, but rather useless in both World Wars... in WWI they might as well have stayed home and in WWII they only became involved because they were directly attacked... I seem to recall hearing that the US also blew that out of proportion and called that a terrorist attack... If your country keeps crying wolf people will stop listening... Also... I don't speak poison... I speak the truth.... although sometimes exagerated but only to counter the exageration of oh so many Americans on this forum... There are many Americans telling fallacies and only myself countering them, so I have no choice but to speak louder to make myself heard... Look at this thread... there are actually people that believe these 7 people with no plans, no munitions, and no first hand knowledge of the sears tower... no documentation and no evidence what-so-ever that think they were actually guilty of a terrorist plot... Yet I'm the one who speaks poison... I also don't gain pleasure from slamming the US... I gain pleasure by demonstrating the stupidity of so many Americans... I also don't see how that would make me selfish... it makes me honest..Quote:
Originally posted here by genXer
Of course they teach history in the US, and like every version of it, just like in every other country, including Canada, it is slanted to serve the interests of those who were or are in power. Yes, Canada helped, so did the US, just later. You always paint Canada in the best of light, which I would think would be patriotic, however in seeing your other posts, you are guilty of the same crimes you charge against the US, in particular, self-righteousnous, sticking your nose in matters that do not concern you, and selfishness. I regard Canada and Canadians, save Quebec, as one of our strongest allies and counels, however, in seeing your poison, I do not count you among that number, for you, like few others I have witnessed, will never be happy with my country, and that is as you state many times "quite saddening." Do not speak about selfishness or selfless acts, when you are selfish in your posts in that you derive distinct pleasure in slamming the US.
You tell me why Canada entered the war.... A war on another continent... a war that in no way affected them... A war they didn't have to take part it... It wasn't for oil... or to avenge an over-zealous presidents father... that's for sure... It was for fame or to make the news... and I'm pretty sure that only an American would say that Canada didn't give selflessly during the first and second world war.Quote:
War - and helping someone else out. I think you need to re-read various history texts. No country goes to war with something not at stake; for you to state that "... those other countries gave selflessly" to what - war? Are you insane? That statement alone tells me 1) you are intelligent 2) you are opinated 3) you know nothing about the world - at least not yet.
I care if I'm impressed... and my country is the end-all-be-all... The only thing that the US exceeds Canada in is Industry... I've talked to many colleagues who've moved to the US for work because the same work doesn't always exist in Canada... and everytime I talk to them all they want to do is be back in Canada..Quote:
And who the hell cares if you are impressed? Because you have an opinion, believe you have some sort of superior moral high ground and continually flaunt your country as the end-all-be-all, anyone else is to give a royal rip or be impressed themselves?
Yes I would support that action... You see North Korea has a dictator... much is the way the US is on the verge of having a dictator.. The North Koreans won't step up and remove him and now it's at the point where he has to be removed... Since they haven't removed him as they should have... they have chosen to suffer... You could say the same about Iraq... There's a difference... Iraq didn't have WMDs... They complied and allowed UN inspectors to come in.... They didn't continue to test missiles after they were told not to.. That's why the Iraq Invasion shouldn't have happened... and that's why a North Korean assault should occur. I know a peaceful solution cannot be attained because you can't negotiate with a crazy person... just look at Bush... he's insane and can't be reasoned with.Quote:
Also, and I am at this point, just trying to understand your viewpoint. Iraq - ok - so you are against the US being in Iraq - point taken and understood. North Korea:
? - nuke Korea. ? What makes you think that nuking North Korea is ok?
What about the innocent lives you decry about Iraq? Are there not innocent lives in North Korea? What about the innocent lives in the neighboring countries? How do you know a peaceful solution cannot be attained - are you a trained and experienced diplomat? Have you talked with the North Korean leaders? Have you conversed with the other world leaders? And if President Bush pulls out of Iraq and nukes North Korea - then you will support him?
I am nothing like Americans.... I still believe in peace... I don't see a need to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for some oil and my fathers good name... I didn't vote to elect an idiot (and I accept that my current leader is an idiot and am more than willing to act on it should he decide to go overboard)... I don't think that homosexual couples are any less human than heterosexual couples and I feel that they should be afforded the same rights... I don't blame video games for todays youth, I blame the actual culprits... lazy parents (To paraphrase an American Senator (or congressman) "I stand and watch my kids play these games, they're awful"... yet he doesn't stop them)... I don't think it's smart to attempt to tax pimps, taxing is no different that promoting and supporting... I don't believe that a constitutional right to protect myself from a dictatorial government means I should have an Uzi under my pillow and a Stinger in my closet... I believe in acting when a line is crossed.... North Korea has crossed that line and it's time to talk... I'd say for Canada to do it but we happened to have had a pussy for a prime minister in the past who let himself be talked out of a great technological advancement because the Americans were pissed off that we had exceeded their capabilities (and afraid of it), so we're now behind in the game...Quote:
HTRegz - you are becoming what you hate... American... we should start your paperwork right away to make you a citizen.
HTRegz, its obvious that I'm not a history buff. My concept of what happen in ww1 and ww2 is based off what little I read in highschool. Why would the US step into a way between nations that it had no alliances with? What were the numbers on the troops that Canada sent into ww1? What about the US even though it was a couple years later? In fact, what were the the numbers for those lost for both countries?
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-593/..._war/gulf_war/Quote:
Originally posted here by spamdies
[ I think the canadians should step up to the bar and deploy some troops and bleed a little.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...2508_118588892
http://www.asiapacificbusiness.ca/ap...ulletin247.pdf
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/peacekeeping/menu-en.asp
Canadians have done their "fair" share of bleeding, as you said you are not up to History, I recommend you sit down and read a little, become aware and take the blinders off (tunnel vision).
Remember folks, if the other's opinion doesn't sit well, then ignore, this is after all "Cosmos"
Oh dear Lord. The US was worthless in both World Wars? Now I know you're insane and a hate-mongerer. That is quite obvious. I will not argue about the timing of my country entering those wars, that is well documented, but to say the contributions were nothing? That is beyond disrespect and the resolve of anyone "promoting" peace. And yes, you do speak poison, you do it every time you slam the US. Allow me to clarify, whenever you proclaim the "truth" or dispel fallacies, you do it with disrespect with every word typed. However, your opinions are yours, relish them.Quote:
Not everywhere slants their history books... The US really wasn't much of a help, but rather useless in both World Wars... in WWI they might as well have stayed home and in WWII they only became involved because they were directly attacked... I seem to recall hearing that the US also blew that out of proportion and called that a terrorist attack... If your country keeps crying wolf people will stop listening... Also... I don't speak poison... I speak the truth.... although sometimes exagerated but only to counter the exageration of oh so many Americans on this forum... There are many Americans telling fallacies and only myself countering them, so I have no choice but to speak louder to make myself heard... Look at this thread... there are actually people that believe these 7 people with no plans, no munitions, and no first hand knowledge of the sears tower... no documentation and no evidence what-so-ever that think they were actually guilty of a terrorist plot... Yet I'm the one who speaks poison... I also don't gain pleasure from slamming the US... I gain pleasure by demonstrating the stupidity of so many Americans... I also don't see how that would make me selfish... it makes me honest..
Also, I also have many colleagues in Canada, many of whom who have been around longer than you, more experienced than you, and definitely more open-minded than you. And there are problems on both sides of the fence and people working to worsen and better the situations all around. And there are others here in this community that point out the issues of my country, they just don't have the obvious disdain for the country and at least an ounce of respect for it.
Prove me wrong. Where is your data? And your generalization of Americans speaks volumes of your ignorance and prejudice.Quote:
You tell me why Canada entered the war.... A war on another continent... a war that in no way affected them... A war they didn't have to take part it... It wasn't for oil... or to avenge an over-zealous presidents father... that's for sure... It was for fame or to make the news... and I'm pretty sure that only an American would say that Canada didn't give selflessly during the first and second world war.
Again, data please? I would accept your argument on "The only thing that the US exceeds Canada in is Industry", if you could present some viable data on it, rather than your hate-mongering.Quote:
I care if I'm impressed... and my country is the end-all-be-all... The only thing that the US exceeds Canada in is Industry... I've talked to many colleagues who've moved to the US for work because the same work doesn't always exist in Canada... and everytime I talk to them all they want to do is be back in Canada..
Quote:
I still believe in peace... I don't see a need to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for some oil and my fathers good name...
You're contradicting yourself sir. You "...don't see a need to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for some oil..." but it's okay to do it to remove a tyrant? Further, you did not answer my question, how is it you can decry the innocent lives lost in Iraq, but have no problem killing thousands, if not millions in another country, simply because a tyrant is in charge? And again, where is your wrath against China and Russia for their stance on this? Bueller, Bueller, anyone?Quote:
Yes I would support that action... You see North Korea has a dictator... much is the way the US is on the verge of having a dictator.. The North Koreans won't step up and remove him and now it's at the point where he has to be removed... Since they haven't removed him as they should have... they have chosen to suffer... You could say the same about Iraq... There's a difference... Iraq didn't have WMDs... They complied and allowed UN inspectors to come in.... They didn't continue to test missiles after they were told not to.. That's why the Iraq Invasion shouldn't have happened... and that's why a North Korean assault should occur. I know a peaceful solution cannot be attained because you can't negotiate with a crazy person... just look at Bush... he's insane and can't be reasoned with.
You also did not answer me completely - you don't have to, but I just wanted to bring it up again: "What about the innocent lives in the neighboring countries? How do you know a peaceful solution cannot be attained - are you a trained and experienced diplomat? Have you talked with the North Korean leaders? Have you conversed with the other world leaders? And if President Bush pulls out of Iraq and nukes North Korea - then you will support him?"
So, then are you involved now with your government to ensure such actions never happen again?Quote:
I'd say for Canada to do it but we happened to have had a pussy for a prime minister in the past who let himself be talked out of a great technological advancement because the Americans were pissed off that we had exceeded their capabilities (and afraid of it), so we're now behind in the game...
HT/Dalek - I agree, Canada has done it's share of bleeding, and from what I have read, more than their share in times of war. There's no denying that. And again, I consider Canada to be one of our staunchest allies and counsels. Canada is a great nation as well.
Anyway, I look forward to your response! I'm sure it will be full of hate, self-righteousnous, and "truth"! And data, I would like to see your data, then I might shut-up... might.
Hmm.... No WMDs found in Iraq eh? Well now, some body needs to do their homework.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2...0629_5547.html
Regardless of HTs perspective. If the US had not entered world war 2 the Nazi empire would have prevailed and perhaps Leningrad would have fallen severely altering the Soviet Empire. Canada's trade partner, assuming the Nazis didn't nuke Quebec would have been Nazi Europe. And yes we did wait for the SAME reason the left hates the fact we are in Iraq. Some wanted to help but the majority did not and it was the attack on pearl harbour that gave the government and excuse to enter into a war they were already planning. Japan snuck all the way over to Hawaii to try and destroy any hope of protecting the islands from their slaughter in the pacific.
As in the old USSR, right, well we still trade with Cuba, so your point being?(we even played Hockey against them in 72 and you guy's did in 80 so what does that make each of us?)Quote:
Canada's trade partner
I agree without US intervention in WWII,( and believe me the majority of those involved are gracious for that fact with some exceptions maybe, Vichy?) most of the UK would be speaking a little Deutsch right about now, however, maybe if the US had of signed on at the beginning of hostilities,(start 1939, US came in 1941, 2yrs) then maybe 6 million Jews would not have been killed, or 30 Million Russians (from Germans as well as Stalin himself).(not to mention thousands of Allied troops)
But everything here is speculation and just that...hindsight is 20-20 if we could go back in time I am sure the ancestors of a particular evil person would get erased?
wonder if i woulda stuck around this whole time if i knew i had this kind of support lurking in the bushes (no pun intended) during the '04 election ;)Quote:
Originally posted here by HTRegz
That's because there isn't. The "War on Terror" is not a world war... it's a vindictive man using the resources available and at his discretion to attack people for fun... The real terrorist is Bush... and the war he's waging is a personal one... I'm really surprised Tedob... I expected you to be intelligent enough to see through the fear mongering... I guess everyone has weaknesses where they believe what they are told to believe... (It's similar to how the majority of people believe in Global Warming)...
The current "World War" and "Global Warming" are just the latest fads... snipe hunting got old... so now snipe hunters without a clue are using those buzz words for their new hunts..
judgement: It's a shame you didn't experience life in Canada... a place where the cops don't beat you needlessly, where the government doesn't attempt to have total control of your every thought.. You talk about prejudice and bigotry... that's what the US was founded on I do believe... if not.. well it's sure all that's evident there.
Opus: No offense intended... but you can go **** yourself... You're entitled to be complacent and believe everything your told... (Btw... did the easter bunny have sex with the tooth fairy yet)... but I'd rather think for myself.
RoadClosed: it's a little more than a few people complaining.. it's the government criticising free speech.. As for you being the "freest" nation... once agin... come join us here in Canada... We don't monitor your bank transactions, record every call you make and want to see who's visiting your MySpace page.
Speaking of which... I was quite surprised to learn that having content logs and visitor logs for MySpace would help the "War on Terrorism"... and you think your Government gives you freedom... The US Government is nothing more than Big Brother.
Peace,
HT
It's WWIII, and U.S.
is out of ideas
Last week's headlines prove the point: North Korea fires missiles, Iran talks of nukes again, Iraq carnage continues, Israel invades Gaza, England observes one-year anniversary of subway bombing. And, oh, yes, the feds stop a plot to blow up tunnels under the Hudson River.
World War III has begun.
It's not perfectly clear when it started. Perhaps it was after the Berlin Wall fell and the Cold War ended. Perhaps it was the first bombing of the World Trade Center, in 1993.
What is clear is that this war has a long fuse and, while we are not in the full-scale combat phase that marked World Wars I and II, we seem to be heading there. The expanding hostilities mean it's time to give this conflict a name, one that focuses the mind and clarifies the big picture.
The war on terror, or the war of terror, has tentacles that reach much of the globe. It is a world war.
While it is often a war of loose or no affiliation, and sometimes just amateur copycats, the similar goals of destruction add up to a threat against modern society. Even the hapless wanna-bes busted in Miami ordered guns and military equipment from a man they thought was from Al Qaeda. Islamic fascists are the driving force, but anti-American hatred is a global membership card for any and all who have a grievance and a gun.
The feeling that the wheels are coming off the world has only one recent comparison, the time when America's head-butt with communism sprouted hot spots from Cuba to Vietnam. Yet ultimately the policy of mutual assured destruction worked because American and Soviet leaders didn't want their countries hit by nuclear bombs.
Such rational thinking is quaint next to the ravings of North Korean nut Kim Jong Il and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They both seem to be dying to die - and set the world on fire.
And don't forget Osama Bin Laden's declaration that it is the duty of every Muslim to acquire a "Muslim bomb." Is there any doubt he would use it if he had it?
I sound pessimistic because I am. Even worse than the problems is the fact that our political system is failing us. Democratic Party leaders want to pretend we can declare peace and everything will be fine, while President Bush is out of ideas. Witness Bush now counseling patience and diplomacy on North Korea. This from a man who scorned both for five years.
But what choice does he have now that the pillars of his post-9/11 foreign policy are crumbling? As Harvard Prof. Joseph Nye argues in Foreign Affairs magazine, Bush's strategy of "reducing Washington's reliance on permanent alliances and international institutions, expanding the traditional right of preemption into a new doctrine of preventive war and advocating coercive democratization as a solution to Middle Eastern terrorism" amounted to a bid for a "legacy of transformation."
The first two ideas have been repealed. The third brought Hamas into power and has so far failed to take root in Iraq or anywhere else.
I believed Iraq was the key, that if we prevailed there, momentum would shift in our favor. Now I'm not sure. We still must prevail there, but Iraq could mean nothing if Iran or Bin Laden get the bomb or North Korea uses one.
Originally published on July 9, 2006
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-365242c.html
If you read my post as intended, the word "free" refers to the influence a person has over their direction in life. Versus being told what to do and where to go. I am not defending the great degree at which we find ourselves (Americans) being monitored. In fact I am hoping someone stands up in congress and starts to reverse some of it. Freedom does have a price and I am willing to pay it through less security. Neither party would take that path after 911 it was about covering THEIR ass.Quote:
Speaking of which... I was quite surprised to learn that having content logs and visitor logs for MySpace would help the "War on Terrorism"... and you think your Government gives you freedom... The US Government is nothing more than Big Brother.
But as a nation of people we are the most free in my opinion. Big Brother is the government and in nations where the government controls your telephone system, Internet access, health care, transportation, education and almost every aspect of life I am not sure how that is not more Orwellian. And I think many miss his point entirely. Lost in their political views while his world view sneaks up, as "they" become less dependent on their own action and more towards the group. Who as a whole are misguided in their common goal of instant gratification in what they believe is owed to them through the power and resource of government. Government for provision versus government for direction and influence among others political boundaries.
As for the leadership of the US and Wars... we lead and fought one of the most influential wars of the modern era, mostly alone. The defense of western democracy against the overt aggression of the Soviet Empire. On the battlefield, on the world economic front, on the nuclear threat, on the control of space and technology and in the empty champers of the United Nations and World Trade organisations. The very United Nations were the US is nothing more than world's patsy.
I hardly see how playing hockey in the World Olympic Games makes us a trade partner? My point is only this. Had the US not entered the war you would have no trade with Free Europe. It would be with Nazi Germany and your ties with England and France would be VERY different. I hardly see how that makes our involvement "useless" as was pointed out. We all traded with Mother Russia to some extent. I remember reading about weat trading in 3rd grade.Quote:
As in the old USSR, right, well we still trade with Cuba, so your point being?(we even played Hockey against them in 72 and you guy's did in 80 so what does that make each of us?)
I didn't say your participation was useless at all, I was stating your participation was very Johnny-come-lately, everyone bows down to the fact that you guy's showed up, so we have to hear that all the time...:rolleyes: as for trading with Russia, I took your shot as Canadians trading with Communists (McCarthy anyone),and it was during the 70's when Russia was experiencing really bad droughts that North America came through and provided Wheat to Russia (USSR) and we still trade with Fidel, while you and us trade unashamedly with China, since when did Cuba stay Communist and China didn't?Quote:
I hardly see how playing hockey in the World Olympic Games makes us a trade partner? My point is only this. Had the US not entered the war you would have no trade with Free Europe. It would be with Nazi Germany and your ties with England and France would be VERY different. I hardly see how that makes our involvement "useless" as was pointed out. We all traded with Mother Russia to some extent. I remember reading about weat trading in 3rd grade.
You may think you were alone,(typical view IMHO) but I would like to correct you on that one, if it were not for N.A.T.O. not to be confused with the UN, Europe would be Soviet, granted the US had all of the best toys, but we weren't sitting on our asses when it came to the "Cold War" at one point we had 2 bases in Germany, so you can get off of that horse, also Germany (formely West) played a crucial role in keeping the Soviets from over running Europe.....so yes you can toot your own horn as much as you wish, just don't forget that it wasn't just you guy's all alone who did everything, or so you may think....Quote:
we lead and fought one of the most influential wars of the modern era, mostly alone. The defense of western democracy against the overt aggression of the Soviet Empire.
N.A.T.O. post say 1957 is like the UN. A body of people with the US as the bouncer. So I hold my statement. It was mostly alone. I wish we had joined WW2 earlier. I can't bear the thought of England fighting alone for all those years. They were pretty much the only one's who fought back. Sure the channel had something to do with it but so do the people and their leadership at the time.
I like my horse. Without going into detail... I think N.A.T.O is a great organizations, but if it didn't happen in Europe they didn't care. And the Sovients were everywhere on agression with every ideology and political boundary they touched. As for China... don't get me started
I was pissing an moaning in the 90s and before when Clinton opened trade restrictions with China. Blame democrats. :D I would do jack **** with China. And I think it's China that is the reason we are up to our necks in Korean Missiles. They were supposed to keep Kim in check.
//EDIT oh I know Canadian troops were stationed at installations like Ramstein Air Base etc. But I didn't know they had 2 bases. What were they?
NATO certainly did what it was created to do, but I honestly feel that the Marshall plan the primary reason why Europe isn't still in shambles, and more importantly--arn't still killing eachother. Alot of people seem to forget about the massive handouts of money, food, and reconstruction efforts.
What's funny to me is how people get angry at the US for saving Europe (& world) "late", when they simply wanted to remain neutral and keep out of another-European-war. What's even more ironic though, is how people LOVE the Swiss and their ultra-neutrality, but never get angry with them for doing so in WWII--as well as financing, trading with, allowing transport of goods, and manufacturing weapons parts with the Axis and Nazi Germany.... :rolleyes:
I don't believe my Dad who was 8 at the time and dodging bombs in London by going underground would have thought that way....no sireee...probably if he could have, would have politely told the "yanks" to take their good old time, in between mouthfuls of Peanut butter sandwiches (never ate peanut butter again after that...) if they could get some...2 yrs waiting for your participation during the "Blitz" would seem like ages to those who lived through it...you see the comment you make is typical of someone who has never had to live through the experience of having to survive the day to day bombing by the Nazi's, we should be so grateful, you expect the survivors of this period to get down and kiss the very ground you walk on....if my Dad were still alive I would be willing to bet it wouldn't be take your time, more like where in the bloody hell were you and what the bloody hell took you so long...Quote:
What's funny to me is how people get angry at the US for saving Europe (& world) "late", when they simply wanted to remain neutral and keep out of another-European-war
A lot of people are indeed grateful and care to tell you about it, what they don't like is having it thrown in their faces every time they have something to say about the US.
This is a misconception, while I will admit the US was indeed generous, they still required payment of sorts, nothing is really free... US War LoansQuote:
Alot of people seem to forget about the massive handouts of money, food, and reconstruction efforts.
One of the reasons Germany went to War for the second time was because of Draconian reparation measures imposed by all of the allies after cessation of hostilties in WWI.
The Marshall Plan did indeed help out, but their was a hidden agenda at the time behind it, the US administration were scared of the Communist Influence being applied because of the poor state Italy and surrounding areas were in, they were easy targets for Communist Agents, so what better way to beat a Communist then to creat a capatilist society which in the long run benefits not just that particular country but also serves the US interests... ;)
Debate
So everyone has an angle..... :rolleyes:
Quote:
//EDIT oh I know Canadian troops were stationed at installations like Ramstein Air Base etc. But I didn't know they had 2 bases. What were they?
CFB Baden
CFB Lahr.... :cool:
Hmmmm,
The US deliberately provoked the attack ;) It went wrong because they did not appreciate the advances that the Japanese had made in dive bombing and short run arial torpedoes. The end result was that the damage was far greater than anticipated.Quote:
it was the attack on pearl harbour that gave the government and excuse to enter into a war they were already planning.
It was fairly predictable, as Japan had been ruled by two rival military factions for some time. The "Red Dragon" was the army lot, and would have simply invaded mainland China, Korea etc. as they had traditionally done for hundreds of years.
Round about the turn of the century the British supplied the Japanese with a modern navy, and taught them how to use it. This brought about the Japanese naval tradition (school of the Blue Lagoon IIRC). They totally hammered the Russians in 1904 which made them a political force within Japan.
The Navy faction was in power at the time....................and the rest is history :D