Making a secure computer: Is there an end to it?

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August 11th, 2006, 04:41 AM
codenamevirus

Making a secure computer: Is there an end to it?

hi

After followin the AO and witnessing the numerous security attacks all over the world, all I want to ask is there an end to it?

Will there be a moment in the future, when we could actually say the magical words, "YES MY MACHINE IS SECURED".

So, I dedicate this thread to the thought " Making of a Secure Computer ", which is as secure as one can think of!

Pour on all the ideas u have thought off, ur experiences, ur knowledge and let us bring that moment of future, when we say those MAGICAL WORDS......
August 11th, 2006, 06:17 AM
ByTeWrangler

Greeting's

Personally speaking :

The answer is YES and NO.

Yes, because you can stay a step ahead by trying to secure your computer as much as you can. By this I mean tweaking your system as much as you can so that the attacker has to spend more and more time trying to figure a way in. It will always remain a never ending battle for securing a computer. If you have spent some time trying to secure your computer making it difficult to crack into then you will get rid of at least 97 % or crackers (a.k.a Skiddies) out there, but there still remains a 3 % out there ...

Which brings me to NO,

No is because you can never secure your system to the fullest. Its just not possible one of the main reason is that THERE IS NO PERFECT PIECE CODE OUT THERE. Lets say you have spent hours and hours trying to secure your system. You have locked down your system applied all possible tweaks to your OS, browser, firewall & any other security software/hardware that you have... But there are unknown exploits out there (most of them buffer overflows) which are very hard to protect from.. Here one of the main things you can do is to wait till there is a patch from the software provider.

This is only applicable to a SOHO user not to a corporate environment there its a completely different ball game... Anyway STAY SECURED
August 11th, 2006, 06:19 AM
The Texan

The only truely secure machine is one that is unplugged from the net and turned off.
August 11th, 2006, 07:50 AM
ByTeWrangler

Greeting's

Quote:

The only truely secure machine is one that is unplugged from the net and turned off.

You sure :p (Theft / break in's, lets not underestimate humans)
August 11th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Galdron

Re: Making a secure computer: Is there an end to it?

Quote:

Originally posted here by codenamevirus

Will there be a moment in the future, when we could actually say the magical words, "YES MY MACHINE IS SECURED".

The day it happens, most of AO's membership will bookmark Monster.com in favor of Security forums.

Burger king anyone?

:D
August 11th, 2006, 08:52 AM
codenamevirus

hi all

thnx 2 all ur valuable replies.

The fact is that I m tryin to go on with a research project based on security. So, I thought to start with Networks and thats y the thread.

So, I was lookin for some informative replies like that of ByteWrangler.

thnx 2 all
August 11th, 2006, 09:04 AM
Galdron

!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted here by The Texan
The only truely secure machine is one that is unplugged from the net and turned off.

You can say what you want in response to his post but I absolutely agree with Tex on this one.
August 11th, 2006, 09:07 AM
codenamevirus

Re: !!!!

Quote:

Originally posted here by Galdron
You can say what you want in response to his post but I absolutely agree with Tex on this one.

Even I agree to him. But, I cant make a research project on that, can I??
August 11th, 2006, 09:10 AM
Galdron

Re: Re: !!!!

Quote:

Originally posted here by codenamevirus
Even I agree to him. But, I cant make a research project on that, can I??

Of course you can! Just realize in advance that it will be a paper based on theory instead of fact. As far as I am concerned theory is often times a better read, as it tends to captivate the imagination. Go ahead and write it.

:cool:
August 11th, 2006, 09:18 AM
nihil

Hi codenamevirus that is an interesting question:

Quote:

After followin the AO and witnessing the numerous security attacks all over the world, all I want to ask is there an end to it?

Please do not consider me trite or facetious, but the answer is "yes, the day after Armageddon or Apocalypse". If you are Hindu, I believe that you call it "Pralay"?

You see, we are talking about machines here, if they fall into the wrong hands..................?

A computer in a physically secure environment surrounded by trustworthy individuals is protected. It is only when it is exposed to external influences that this situation is compromised.

It is not that long ago that PCs were stand alone and ran DOS applications............they did not connect to a network, and were comparatively secure (apart from getting stolen). It is only since we have started to entrust more sensitive information to them, and introduced global communications that this situation has changed.

The problem does not lie with the machines, it rests in what we do with them, and how we choose to do it.

;)
August 11th, 2006, 09:19 AM
codenamevirus

hi,

Quote:

Of course you can! Just realize in advance that it will be a paper based on theory instead of fact. As far as I am concerned theory is often times a better read, as it tends to captivate the imagination. Go ahead and write it.

u certainly have a point there. Keep sendin more on what u think or what can be done?

thnx
August 11th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Galdron

Hey

Quote:

Originally posted here by codenamevirus
Keep sendin more on what u think or what can be done.

I will write the paper for you and you won't learn a thing! I do accept Paypal though.

;)
August 11th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Mystery Man

Hi people !

Me and codenamevirus are in the same college and in the same team creating the project. Well we had some thought sessions on the search for the topic to do research on.

I suppose i'm not hijacking the thread but elaborating our point furthur.

What we though gave us certain pathways to move on but being still in the college and not a part of the industry we might not have the same level of exposure to trends and technologies in practice at present. What i want to convey here is that we do not intend to do research on something which we don't know but has been done before.

Heres a glimpse of what we had in mind. I request you to elaborate the pros and cons on following any one of the topics or suggest some new ones. We will proceed accordingly and be in constant touch with you guys.

1. Improving security (Data) through changes in File System
2. Improving secutity (Network) through analysis of attacks causing max damage and thereby ways on improving.
3. Improving security in OS through the modifications in the way it interacts with the network and the data that passes through it.

Well we're at a starting juncture and the above topics are generalizations of the kind of work we intend to do. Please give your comments on these or further suggestions on other topics relating to data or network security.

Also if you know about any current research or project going on in the same areas we're interested in knowing that too.

Kindly Guide !
August 11th, 2006, 10:12 AM
jockey0109

Well frenz...I dont know if I should tell this or not...I am just a BIG newbie as compared to the great expertise of you all...even though I will like to compare this situation to a story ... I heard some time ago:

There was a KING once upon a time. He built a big palace...But he put only one BIG door in the palace. then he invited another KING from nearby state to see how his Palace was. The other King commented after looking at the palace that "Everything is right...except that you have put ONE door....you should have closed it completely". "But what would be the use of it...I will die without that ONE door" replaied the first king.

Similar is the case with a computer...The MOST secure computer is the one which is completely isolated but then...it has no use at all. Again, removing everything increases its vulnerability. So all you can do is to put in Minimum number of outer world contact with high security! thats all that can be said.

Now as far as exploits are concerned, sofware development and maintenance is an EXTREMELY complex task and the exploits will be there for sure! So no system can be SECURE.

So I at the end would say that "A SECURE COMPUTER CAN"T BE PREPARED".
August 11th, 2006, 02:09 PM
codenamevirus

hi,

We dun want others to write the papers for us then again it doest mean we dont want their help.

MysteryMan, already gave the thoughts, we are willin to go on with.

Quote:

So I at the end would say that "A SECURE COMPUTER CAN"T BE PREPARED".

I know, we cant make a computer completely secure but we can increase the security level for our machines. And that's we want to work on!!

Quote:

the answer is "yes, the day after Armageddon or Apocalypse". If you are Hindu, I believe that you call it "Pralay"?

You see, we are talking about machines here, if they fall into the wrong hands..................?

nihil, I complete understand ur point, perhaps that's very much correct even. But, as I said, we want to increase the level, if not completely curb it(which would be ideal, but ideals never exist, do they?)

At present, we are looking into security in networks.

And, I think, there's no way to end the physical leaks....like a stolen pc.....;)

thnx

thnx