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So, what do you think will happen to North Korea? South Korea has been hostage for quite some time, and now is in an even worse position. Obviously, Kim needs to be taken out. The only question is, is the world willing to gamble with South Korea's life--and will it be forced to?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing would happen. Unless China and Japan decide to do some brow beating. But then again north korea aint no taiwan.
btw, a south korean politician is suppose to take over from kofi annan at the UN
a twist in the tail is always welcome. (pun intended)
there are the poor Korean people starving in filth and squalar and this dick head blows billions of dollars to be a punk.
he just blew about 13% of his piss poor arsonel. let him test a few more. he will not be getting the forign aid to build more.
he really cant do anything but piss people off with his 'nukes'. it would take a huge transport plain to carry one and with the forces against hm that's really no worry at all.
cut off all aid then see how happy his people are with him for being contempetous as they eat dirt.
This whole messed up situation.... *sigh* I would _almost_ say let mutually assured destuction work and give Japan and South Korea the Bomb.
THAT would be a mess indead.
I'm sure that China doesn't want an arms race to erupt, and am kind of surprised that they didn't stop this. Now Japan is going to have cause to pursue the Bomb, and I gaurantee that China does not want that.
We have a rather large base in Japan....you can be sure there are 'real' nukes there and if the japanese decide to go that route you can be sure they wont make any 24 ton 11 kiloton firecrackers. they'll be small and precision instruments of destruction with megatons of strength...another glass countryside comming. Kim dong Ill and mama ima dinnajacket ...cast forever in glass.Quote:
Originally posted here by dmorgan
This whole messed up situation.... *sigh* I would _almost_ say let mutually assured destuction work and give Japan and South Korea the Bomb.
THAT would be a mess indead.
I'm sure that China doesn't want an arms race to erupt, and am kind of surprised that they didn't stop this. Now Japan is going to have cause to pursue the Bomb, and I gaurantee that China does not want that.
I'm going to bet on the other option: as usual, nothing will happen :)
IF something big happens, I'll pick up my weapon and defend my wife and children...
I forgot to mention that nothing is going to happen, as usual :p
And I forgot again to add that nothing ever will!
Well,
With the greatest respect, might I suggest that this is a "cry for help"?
North Korea has no natural energy resources............letting off a few nukes does call some attention................as is witnessed by its mention on a computer security site?
I don't think that they have much capacity for hydro-electric power, and I have no idea regarding wind potential.
To put it bluntly, it looks like blackmail to me..........................but I tend to look at a people, rather than their self appointed governments..............
We don't all have democracies? :(
In societies, people get the government they deserve.
While external intervention may depose a dictator or two, the surest way for a people to be succesful is to have self determination. If the people of North Korea want a democracy, they will have a democracy. Very few dictators have retirement plans.
Unfortunately some societies are not ready for democracy, we should not force it down their throats.
The nations of the world should be ready to aid the people of North Korea if they take that step, but they should be taking that step.
China, missed an opportunity here and will have lost face...they should be allowed to rectify this issue, but in the meantime the world community should hold the 2008 Olympics over their head.
Rest assured, losing the Olympics through a world boycott would devestate Chinese self importance on the world stage, so be prepared for this angle to start getting some attention.
Also, China and Russia, need to get off of their collective stupidness and stop vetoing the security council measures that are put forth to sanction Iran/N.Korea.
I don't get their hesitation, unless it's because they are knee deep in providing materials to these two countries and need the $. China shouldn't need the $, but Russia? well as long as the criminals control the Kremlin, they will always need the $.
The scary thing about N.Korea is what are they providing Iran? :mad:
Yeah now's a bad time to be living in any part of asia.
What would happen to NKorea? Anexed to the south? Reunite the nation under the southern government? Would China zergling rush with their massive army, and take NKorea like they took Tibet? Amerika invades for the oil? The world is a mess!
you gotta love it! after the first blast the west was saying 'was that a nuke blast? kinda hard to tell.' so he unloads another today and the west says may have been a conventional explotion...maybe ment to trigger a nuke but was it a nuke. maybe it was an old something they dusted off the shelf. nuke....i dont know.
tomorrow maybe he'll take all the rest he has and stuff them all down a hole.....well ill show them! then it's no more nuclear korea. LMAO and no more forign aid to build more with.
I often tend to just ignore cosmos all together. I find it to be too much of a shouting much and much less based on actual information or intelligence. But, with such a long history of you being intelligent I thought I would through my hat in the ring.Quote:
Originally posted here by Tedob1
there are the poor Korean people starving in filth and squalar and this dick head blows billions of dollars to be a punk.
he just blew about 13% of his piss poor arsonel. let him test a few more. he will not be getting the forign aid to build more.
he really cant do anything but piss people off with his 'nukes'. it would take a huge transport plain to carry one and with the forces against hm that's really no worry at all.
cut off all aid then see how happy his people are with him for being contempetous as they eat dirt.
Let's start at the top.
"There are poor korean people starving in filth and squalar"
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
35 million. vs 23,113,019 total people of North Korea.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/kn.html
Clearly shows who our priorites are far off. Come on the U.S. has been holding this technology for over half a century. The only country to use this technology. Is oddly enough the strongest supporter of keeping other countries from getting it.
While I personally feel that the money spent by any country for nucleur weapons is a waste. There is a very vital roll that is played in gaining a nucleur arsenal. Power... Not one that you use like Bush sends in troops. But, a lot of power.
Next whoever said Japan and China would have to do something and that they aren't much. Japan ruled Korea for 5 yrs.
Tedob simply cutting add will not fix anything. If they cut aid. He bumps up his testing. Now there is absolutely nothing to stop him. There is no clear cut solution to this. And I dare bush try to send troops to NK. We learned last time when we got our asses kicked there. (And no I am not confusing it with Vietnam) With a million man army something tells me the Bush administration is going to think/try long and hard about their next move.
Oddly enough, Old papa sad. was kicked out of office in Iraq for thinking that he might possibly, sorta, maybe have something.
The U.S. has become nothing more but the bully on the playground. We will pick on those kids that we know we can slap around. Yea the kid my hit us back once but no damage. But, we won't mess with anyone that might actually cause us some harm.
you think they'll be nothing to stop him without forign aid? where do you think he'll get the money? raise taxes? he's been using the money sent as aid for his people for this research and it aint cheap. if the aid is stopped he'll have to 'take' more from a people that already have NOTHING. you speak as if this is a deserving regime trying to help its people....it is not.
this is a man who's been supplying terrorists with weapons for years. terrorists that have been trying to kill us. let his people see where this is taking them and even his own army will turn against him instead of seeing him as the great hero for standing up to the west which has been doing nothing but trying to help them. we even 'GAVE' him the reactor meant to give the north koreans a cheap source of power to improve their lives and he lies threw his teeth and uses it to make fissel material to intimidate the very people that have been trying to help.
south korea (that mecca of wealth), china, japan, the united states and the UN in general have been giving that country billions. billions that are not reaching the people. it's time his followers see him for what he is.
what would you suggest...high altitude air bursts? his technology sucks and he is no threat to anyone. this great move of his has shown the world how much he and his technology really do suck.
i dont know where you come from but when a punk with nothing behind him tries to push you around....where i come from we smack the **** out of him. show him for the dirt bag he really is. if you call that being a bully spend some time in the streets.
the whole world really wants to see his people do well, have housing and food, medicine and education, but not if they are supporting this cracker mini-me. if a community is donnating money to support a poor family then find out the old man is just drinking it ....what would be the correct course of action if it's not helping the family? let the family find out and leave him in the dirt and get some real help.
I keep falling back on the same idea, if the North Koreans were starving and living in squalor for a long time then why haven't they risen up and deposed Kim.
How many governments has Haiti had in the last 10 years? Someone will now reference his army and say his people would have no chance. Do I see newsclips of Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks? Are there suicide bombings in NK? Kims army is built on NK people, his army would turn on him.
Do you remember the fall of East Germany? A few generals countermanded the order to squelch the people. They couldn't order the troops to kill their own countrymen.
If Kim does something aggressive outside his borders then by all means smack the crap out of him. But if he stays in his own yard, we are the bigger bully by going in after him.
From the reports i have been seening here it looks more like a failed test than anything else.
If you look around a bit, you can find people going into NK with video cameras and filming what life is really like there. Dead bodies just laying in the streets...Quote:
Originally posted here by Tedob1
you think they'll be nothing to stop him without forign aid? where do you think he'll get the money? raise taxes? he's been using the money sent as aid for his people for this research and it aint cheap. if the aid is stopped he'll have to 'take' more from a people that already have NOTHING. you speak as if this is a deserving regime trying to help its people....it is not.
this is a man who's been supplying terrorists with weapons for years. terrorists that have been trying to kill us. let his people see where this is taking them and even his own army will turn against him instead of seeing him as the great hero for standing up to the west which has been doing nothing but trying to help them. we even 'GAVE' him the reactor meant to give the north koreans a cheap source of power to improve their lives and he lies threw his teeth and uses it to make fissel material to intimidate the very people that have been trying to help.
south korea (that mecca of wealth), china, japan, the united states and the UN in general have been giving that country billions. billions that are not reaching the people. it's time his followers see him for what he is.
what would you suggest...high altitude air bursts? his technology sucks and he is no threat to anyone. this great move of his has shown the world how much he and his technology really do suck.
i dont know where you come from but when a punk with nothing behind him tries to push you around....where i come from we smack the **** out of him. show him for the dirt bag he really is. if you call that being a bully spend some time in the streets.
the whole world really wants to see his people do well, have housing and food, medicine and education, but not if they are supporting this cracker mini-me. if a community is donnating money to support a poor family then find out the old man is just drinking it ....what would be the correct course of action if it's not helping the family? let the family find out and leave him in the dirt and get some real help.
Greeting's
I read an article on BBC and it said that UK will still provide humanitarian aid to the region. While your point is correct that instead of feeding his own people, the moron decided to blow off money on way to destroy his country more... It doesn't matter whether he uses the Nuke's or not.. What matters is the fact that he has it and most of the world doesn't like it.. Hence he will have to pay anyway..Quote:
there are the poor Korean people starving in filth and squalar and this dick head blows billions of dollars to be a punk.
He just blew about 13% of his piss poor arsenal. Let him test a few more. He will not be getting the foreign aid to build more.
He really cant do anything but piss people off with his 'nukes'. It would take a huge transport plain to carry one and with the forces against hm that's really no worry at all.
Cut off all aid then see how happy his people are with him for being contemplations as they eat dirt.
But I think by imposing restrictions or cutting aid to the people living in the region, will only result into more and more innocent people being killed either by natural cause (after suffering a lot) or by goverment (again after suffering a lot).. Very SAD..
I say cut off all trade, travel, and aid to North Korea. If Kim wants to live as if he were in his own world--give him his own world. The aid given isn't even really making it to "his" people, so as I see it only Kim will truely be affected by this.
Kim is a cancer. If you cut a cancer out--you never truely know if it is gone--usually not. If you kill it by force with chemicals and radation, you usually end up killing the surrounding organs if not the person outright. So how do you kill/remove cancer?
You starve it.
Stop all bloodflow and nutrients to cancer cells, and it simply dies and stays gone. Such is Kim jong il.
Greeting's
Quote:
Kim is a cancer
Here is the cancer upclose and personal (he's got some of his family cells with him)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3203523.stm
Here is what he has been doing in the last 5 years to help the people of his country :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2604437.stm
Here is the entire cancer family :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3203523.stm
There you go... Hell on earth ..
PS : here is a link that suggests that the tests may be either fake or unsuccessfull
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6041200.stm
Hello Kim old chum.......... I have stoked her up and she is steaming nicely :D
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/
Yes, I am a very sad person.......I also watch hurricanes ;)
from one of linlovers links:
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/kn.html
Economy - overview:
Massive international food aid deliveries have allowed the people of North Korea to escape mass starvation since famine threatened in 1995, but the population continues to suffer from prolonged malnutrition and poor living conditions. Large-scale military spending eats up resources needed for investment and civilian consumption.
You talk about giving Japan the bomb, but AFAIK Japan has had a deliberate policy of not pursuing nuclear weapons because of the fact that they've seen the destruction they cause first hand. So really it's not a question of giving Japan the bomb because no-one's been withholding it from them.Quote:
Originally posted here by dmorgan
I would _almost_ say let mutually assured destuction work and give Japan and South Korea the Bomb.
THAT would be a mess indead.
ac
On the point of japan having the bomb it is true that Japan has a non-nuclear policy but it is also the US who do not want a nuclear Japan.
Hmmm the fact that Japan is opposed to having a bomb, doesn't mean they don't have access to one, I am sure there are nukes at the American Base Yokosuka, or on any of the Subs which visit Japan or sail out of Guam. So in a crunch, Japan can be used as a launching pad,if it needs to protect itself.
The population of Japan can be kept in the dark, much like we (Canada) were when telling the locals there are no nukes (Diefenbaker lied ).
Have to disagree with that, Japan is America's staunchest Ally in the Pacific, if the **** hits the fan in that area, the US are gonna want a friend, and they are the closest to NK and best strategically.Quote:
On the point of japan having the bomb it is true that Japan has a non-nuclear policy but it is also the US who do not want a nuclear Japan.
Japan is the US's staunchest ally because they need the US for protection. It doesn't mean that the US wants Japan to become militarialy independant which is what it would be if it had an independant nuclear arsenal. It is similar to the situtation in europe. Germany is now a stauch ally of the rest of western europe. still there is no way the US or nato would accept a German nuclear arms program.
I wouldn't be too sure about that in today's scheme of things, Germany may have been hesitant to flex itself 20yrs ago, but not so today, who would stop them if they wanted to start up a nuclear program, the Soviets....with what? their military power is in the dustbin, I would be frightened to death if I was a Russian Officer and received the orders to fire a missile for fear it would blow up in the silo or worse, hit one of their own cities, or actually find out that the warhead had been sold on the blackmarket a couple of years earlier...Quote:
Originally posted here by MURACU
Japan is the US's staunchest ally because they need the US for protection. It doesn't mean that the US wants Japan to become militarialy independant which is what it would be if it had an independant nuclear arsenal. It is similar to the situtation in europe. Germany is now a stauch ally of the rest of western europe. still there is no way the US or nato would accept a German nuclear arms program.
Same with Japan, I would be willing to bet that the US would rather have a nuclear capable Japan then a nuclear capable NK/Vietnam/Thailand/Indonesia/Burma/etc.... the club is getting bigger as long as China and Russia undermine the efforts of the US to reign in these Nuclear Wannabees it's going to happen...
Japan doesn't have to be militarily independant to act in the best interests of itself or the US, they have access to US assets, pretty much anytime they want them, your right the only reason Japan is still around is because of the US, but I wouldn't put it past the US to have certain agreements in place with Japan in case of a Pacific Rim outbreak of war, same with Australia and NZ and a few of the islands between the Phillipines and Indonesia.
What benefits Japan/Taiwan, benefits the US interests....
I honestly don't care what happens to that corrupt gov. But what I don't get is all the talks about "Omfg NK got nukes, we all dooomed". Let's get a few things straight, the only war NK has had is a civil war against SK. The people are poor, the leaders are rich but even they do have some leftism left in their bones and actully want to improove the conditions for their people. They are not interested in a war only in having something to bargain with (excuse my english). They perhaps want civil nuclear energy or end of sanctions...
The main country opposed to this new nuclear nation is the US. They are saying that a brutal and aggressive dictatorship - member of the axis of evil - should not have nuclear weapons.
What if we scroll back the film a bit? Which country in the world has had more wars in the last 50 years than any other nation? - The US.
Which country is the only one to ever had used nukes - The US.
Which country supports even more dictatorial regimes (not more brutal but more dictatorial) than NK - The US, which supports Saudi Arabia, has supported pinochet and I could make an even bigger list but these are the two most known.
I could also make my "point to point" list larger but I hope that's not needed.
So my argument comes down to this: It's bad that NK has the Gov that it has.
It's not positive but neither negative that NK has nuclear weapons. It's much worse that any nation besides France has nuclear weapons since all the other (The US, Israel, China, Russia, Pakistan, India and UK) are already in some sort of war compared to the NK's.
It's really sad that the US is talking about this as something Kim brought on himself after the fact that the US forbids NK to import Oil, Medicine and fuel and thus is killing more people through it's sanctions in NK than Kim ever could.
the korean leadership are killing their own people
NOT america
they have told the populace that the grand celebrations they have for the dear leaders birthday are repeated throughout the world :eek:
uprisings only happen if the local populace know of a 'better' way
NK believe that their way is the ONLY way
after this leaderships demise there will be another
and they will be even worse
because now, if they were to tell the population that, yes, there IS food aplenty, they would all be killed in th euprising that would ensue
as it is, NK is THE most secretive country on earth
where everything is one at the behest of the dear leader
where freedom of thought is banned and all follow party doctrine or die
NK sent a football team to the 66 world cup [soccer] in the UK, even then, they were like fish out of water, and TOTALLY unprepared for the world then
imagine the culture shock that IS coming one day
let em die
it will make NO difference to the world, as NK does not DO anything for the world
when they are dead, THEN walk in and bury the last
shake hands with the chinese as they too walk in
then turn around and walk away
there is NOTHING there
just dead men walking :(
Hehe...
Perhaps the people aren't as "free" in the positive freedom sense as in the US and UK but they are much more free than any of us in West in the negative sense.
I'm not sure this is the right way to formulate it but there are two sorts of freedom.
Marx wanted everyone to be able to have a job, house and food on their table.
The NK is doing everything it can to provide these basic needs, the freedom to live.
The US is undermining the NK republic to do so by using sanctions on it. Now I am not saying that the gov is doing everything it can to provide this but it is at least doing more than the US is for the homeless and very poor. The difference is that it has alot less resources. So it evens out probably. Never the less you are correct ni saying that the NK is the most secretive country (I'd like to say state) in the world. It's also the most conservative when it comes to what is right and what is wrong and the hypochrisy of KIM's speaches about American culture being bad is obvious when the man himself owns over 2000 Hollywood movies.
But even with all of this, the republic of North Korea still hasn't done anything to have so hard sanctions on it (already - before the NUKE thing) and to be so discriminated when it comes to developing nuclear weapons and nuclear power. While other countries such as India are almost endorsed by the US to do the same thing. In what way - please tell me - has the US more of a right to have a nuclear weapon than NK?
Yep, the soviets kept the troops happy and fed, just like Kim is doing now, while the peasants die.Quote:
Marx wanted everyone to be able to have a job, house and food on their table.
The NK is doing everything it can to provide these basic needs, the freedom to live.
Those bad Americans, how dare they try to keep a downtrodden mass of humanity alive....oh right Kim makes sure all of that food donated goes to his troops... (or the black market):rolleyes:Quote:
The US supplied 50,000 tonnes of food aid to North Korea last year and 100,000 tonnes the year before, making it one of the largest single providers of aid to the country.
Quote:
But even with all of this, the republic of North Korea still hasn't done anything to have so hard sanctions on it (already - before the NUKE thing) and to be so discriminated when it comes to developing nuclear weapons and nuclear power. While other countries such as India are almost endorsed by the US to do the same thing. In what way - please tell me - has the US more of a right to have a nuclear weapon than NK?
India, is a "Democracy", North Korea is "Communist", India has controls on it's military, North Korea has no controls over it's military,it is the military... capiche..... ;)
So what? India has had more wars than North Korea... And the Unites States which is to promote freedom and democracy has supported coups and installations of dictators such as the one in Chilé.
Who cares about food? The US is depriving the NK of it's abillity to produce fuel and power without nuclear technology. Since it has an oil embargo against the country. NK's army, cars, air-fleet, navy, powerplants, everything is running on low while the US is using it's fuel to kill people in Iraq. What sort of useless country are you if you are dependent on aid? Let North Korea develope itself...Perhaps the people will have it better then aswell.
So just cause North Korea is communist (which it by no means is - not even according to themselves) makes it okey to put sanctions on an already poor nation, deprive them of their right to develope peacefull (what they wanted at first) nuclear power and now nuclear weapons.
You still haven't answered my question:
How is the United States an more responsible nation to carry around nukes compared to North Korea?
Oh and I am not even sure if I should reply on this but: Where in the name of god have you heard of one single peasant starving in the Soviet Union? This compared to the age of the Tsar when many were starving - even the army. So don't come here and talk rubish about the USSR. Russia was one of the least developed countries at the start of World War 1. At the end of world war 2 (even though it suffered the greatest manpower and economic losses in both wars) it was one of the most developed.
Stalin did some bad **** but if you are going to start lying that those people who'm he didn't massmurder (which is like 98% of the population) that they were starving or having it any less good than those in the west then you should at least put some facts out to support your statement.
ROFLQuote:
At the end of world war 2 (even though it suffered the greatest manpower and economic losses in both wars) it was one of the most developed.
all the soviet could do was build walls
and for the first time in history the walls were designed to keep their own people IN
NOT to keep the enemy OUT
the soviet would have had NOTHING without US aid
all delivered to them by merchant navy convoys to murmansk
go back to your 'glorious' war pictures of the 'victorious' red army
look again at the armour
look at the christie suspension units
they only got advancement through stealing
it was the allied aid that allowed them to relocate their factories and start over
but they were never, and have never been at the fore front of anything 'developed'
what a crock of **** you are spouting
but if your nic is an indicator of origin
then maybe it could explain a few things
but really
the soviet - developed - LMAO
I think Tedob1 pinned it in his first response
Governments would rather spend monies on warfare than their own people.......just look at the US
lets kill IRAQies ....and try and gain control of the oil........who cares about New Orleans. :eek:
Its all about the Bushypoo friends...kinda like Linden B...and his helicopters friends and Viet Nam
enuf said
MLF
Eons from now the human race may not be around for whatever manmade disaster or natural cause that could come about.
The sad epitath that a discovering race would make would be that our greatest achievment was how good we became at killing each other.
I won't go into the politics of the situation. Yesterday I attended a funeral for a 19 year old Marine that was killed in Iraq. My children worked with this kid at scout camp. He was a good scout. He leaves a widow and a grieving community. RIP Lance Cpl Edward Garvin, or Eddie as we knew him.
Every number, every name that is attached to the dead belies that this is a person, there are connections between this person and others. As a race our survival is going to be based on how well we all work together.
That's true. The really sad thing is that it's politics that kills. Back long ago you had them tribal wars and then it was about power or resources. Now it's just about who's right. And while the politicians are debating we are getting slayed.
Your arse is talking rubbish...Quote:
Oh and I am not even sure if I should reply on this but: Where in the name of god have you heard of one single peasant starving in the Soviet Union? This compared to the age of the Tsar when many were starving - even the army. So don't come here and talk rubish about the USSR. Russia was one of the least developed countries at the start of World War 1. At the end of world war 2 (even though it suffered the greatest manpower and economic losses in both wars) it was one of the most developed.
Quote:
The Plan to Modernize the Soviet Union
Once Stalin felt secure in his position as leader of the Party, he began to outline his plans for the USSR. The USSR held tremendous potential in terms of human and natural resources, but both were very undeveloped. Stalin believed that under a five-year economic plan, the USSR would industrialize, and become stronger than any nation in the West.
Unfortunately, the USSR was made up mostly of poor peasants who farmed small plots of land. In most cases, these peasants still harvested crops by hand and used wooden plows. Therefore, to make the plan successful, he would need to make changes to the peasant way of life. Two things were required of the peasants by Stalin: the peasants would have to be taxed heavily to pay for his new factories and secondly, the peasants would have to produce more food for all of the new factory workers in the cities.
Collectivization and the Kulaks
In 1929 Stalin announced the "collectivization" (joining together) of all farms in the country. This meant that hundreds of small farms were forced to join into larger ones, and the peasants had to work together in order to make the bigger farms successful. The large farms would be about 450 hectares in size, with anywhere from 50 to 100 families working on them. The new farms were supposed to receive new tractors and other modern equipment to help modernized and increase the production of food.
Stalin wanted all of the roughly 100 million peasants to join his planned collectivization program although he realized that the peasants would not necessarily like the new system. The people most likely to resist the change would be the ones with the most to lose. In the USSR, the Kulaks (translated to "fists") were the richest farmers. They owned two or more horses, several cows and had larger farms than most peasants.
The solution for Stalin was simple. The five million Kulaks who existed within the USSR were to be liquidated as a social class. By using his powerful secret police, Kulaks were murdered, exiled to Siberia, and robbed of all possessions. Approximately 1.5 million Kulaks died as a direct result of Stalin's policies.
Many peasants showed their displeasure to collectivization by not planting crops or by killing all of their animals. Stalin had hoped to eliminate the problem of food production, but the opposite happened. A lack of food became a major problem in the cities because of the peasants resistance to collectivization. Stalin was forced to send the police into the countryside to raid farms for food and ultimately, the army was used to force the peasants to work and send food to the cities. Furthermore, as a punishment for not collectivizing, the farmers were given little or no food. Mass starvation occurred during this period, with close to 30 million peasants starving to death.
Eyewitness Account:
A little market town in the …North Caucasus suggested a military occupation; worse active war. There were soldiers everywhere… all differing notably from the civil population in one respect. They were well fed, and the civilian population was obviously starving. I mean starving in its absolute sense; …having had for weeks next to nothing to eat. Later I found out that there had been no bread at all in the place for three months, and such food as there was I saw for myself in the market… there was black cooked meat which I worked out, I calculated, at a ruble [Soviet money] for three bites. "How are things with you?" I asked one man. He looked round anxiously to see that no soldiers were about. "We have nothing, absolutely nothing. They have taken everything away," he said, and hurried on.
Go back to History class, 30 million people starving to death is more then "1" single peasant.
SourceQuote:
The Soviets did everything in their power to deny the existence of the famine. When the London Daily Express reported that the Soviets had purchased even a modest 15,000 tons of wheat abroad in order to alleviate the shortage of bread at home, Pravda on May 27, 1933, published an indignant denial. Had the Kremlin acknowledged the famine, it would have been expected not to sell grain, for want of which its own people were dying. Stalin denied the existence of famine and continued to export grain, albeit at a lower rate. In 1931, the USSR exported 5.06 million metric tons of grain. In 1932 this fell to 1.73 million and in 1933 to 1.68 million.
I remember Canada being one of the few countries that for years donated thousands of tons of wheat each year to the USSR.
It's called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) and I would certainly prefer the US to have nukes then some twit in say.....Yugoslavia, read up on the 60's and 70's about the cold war. Your defence of a crackpot places you in the minority, and if your happy being there, then maybe you can immigrate to North Korea and take your feelings to Kim and his people, show him your support. :rolleyes:Quote:
How is the United States an more responsible nation to carry around nukes compared to North Korea?
Besides.. You come from Canada... You takl english there...
If anyone understood this/these sentance then please explain it to me cause I didn't: It's called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) and I would certainly prefer the US to have nukes then some twit in say.....Yugoslavia, read up on the 60's and 70's about the cold war. Your defence of a crackpot places you in the minority, and if your happy being there, then maybe you can immigrate to North Korea and take your feelings to Kim and his people, show him your support.
By the way that thing about bread? What does this actully show. Is this proof of a famine? Maybe the Russians just wanted some extra food. But it doesn't matter. It shows that the Russians at least managed to have some kind of own production while not needing to buy food all the time while you in the west bought cheap food from cheap labour in Africa while the whole continent was starving. Not to mention that Europe had Africa conolized before and even the years after WW2.
Why has no-one asked the obvious..............what the hell do the North Koreans want atomic weapons for? (assuming that they could get one to work :D )
The whole idea of atomic and the later nuclear weapons is as a deterrent ? so who are the North Koreans kidding themselves into thinking that the primitive devices they are capable of building would deter?
The Chinese?................they would run through the country and kill the lot of them inside 24 hours, even if North Korea spent their entire GNP for the next 100 years on weapons!
The South Koreans won't attack them, the Japanese couldn't care less about them so long as they behave............same for India and Pakistan.
If they piss with the British and/or Americans they will be dead from a distance within 24 hours.............. they actually have NO NATURAL ENEMIES IN THE REGION?
This whole exercise is a gross waste of national resources :rolleyes:
People who do things that illogical are a potential danger to everyone....... like what happens when the revolution happens (and IT WILL ) and insurgents find these things in arsenals around the country?
Uhm I think I've answered on that. They want it to bargain with. Like "ok we got nukes, don't put sanctions on us and let us make nuclear energy" stuff :P Maybe later they also will trade their nuclear weapons program for better diplomatic relations and stuff.
You mean a contra revolution against Kim? Well what happend when the Russians had a revolution? : ) Maybe a few nukes found themselves on the Black Market but obviously they weren't used. I don't think anything will happen to NKs nukes.