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also from digg...
http://scienceblogs.com/thescian/200...nts_uncles.php
short but sweet just wanted to post this which confirms that others agree w/ what i said here : http://antionline.com/showthread.php...311#post912311
(You are WRONG HTRegz ... feel free to tear his post down like you always do
I won't curse at you this time...)
I am personally not impressed by ubuntu, but that is my own opinion.
I've had mega problems with it too, but intend giving it another go tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.
There are a number of things that weren't demonstrated in this blog posting...
Most likely his Flash is beta... which isn't a great thing... and now that he's away his parents will not be able to easily get their flash updates as they would if they were running Windows..
He didn't mention disable services.. so now they've got a basic user account with probably an easy to remember password... and SSH sitting open..
He had to get additional hardware for their internet to work..
You have yet to prove anything... this is another linux-zealot promoting Ubuntu for a very basic computer user (Which I believe in your last thread I said would be somewhat OK)...
In fact
There's exactly what I said... this is what his parents are doing... I could argue this but you:Quote:
Ubuntu is like SuSE and only slightly better than most other Linux distributions.. in that it is geared for two types of people.. Person A is highly technical... Person B knows nothing about computers and emails her grandchildren and surfs the web for recipes... The inbetween people.. there still isn't a Linux for them... Linspire might actually come closest... Linux still has a ways to go...
A) Are a Linux Zealot
B) Don't listen to reason
C) Really have no clue.
Peace,
HT
Hmmmm,
"Linux for parents"............. it would have to be Linspire in my book, although MAC OS X is a technical contender, apart from the hardware limitations?
I have field tested Linspire in a home for "mentally challenged" people, and it was every bit as good as Windows, apart from the fact that there is far less choice of software.
Just my thoughts:)
I really take exception to that sweeping, patronising statement, "Person B knows nothing about computers and emails her grandchildren and surfs the web for recipes."
Whoever said it is making a very ignorant statement. Why the hell should you associate lack of computer knowledge with grandmothers and arrogantly assume you know what people are doing online? I'm not a grandmother, but I am a parent and I know more than my kids about PCs because I'm interested in doing more than just downloading music and chatting on MSN. To assume anyone over the age of say, 60, is incapable of what is pretty basic computer use (let's face it, you don't need the brains of Einstein to use linux and anyone can learn programming given enough time), is being really sexist/ageist. That statement might have been truish 10 years ago, but computers are mainstream now and often retired people have a lot more time to spend learning about their use than a younger generation, stuck in full time jobs and more interested in going out than spending their evenings online.
For the record, I work in a large call centre with a lot of young people, and believe me, most of them are pretty useless when it comes to computers.
HTRegz ... you say Linux Zealot like it’s a bad thing. I believe in the OS philosophy as opposed to MS monopoly. What do you believe in? Oh, I forgot… you are “the voice of reason”. Maybe your parent / grandparents are just dumb.
Let’s say that non-tech. Ppl can’t install Ubuntu and all its features as easily as Windows and someone has to help them. According to you we’d just keep the dummies on Windows so they can call next week w/ infestation that can only be cleared by reformat. Whatever!
Well put Moira.
Which lines up with what I said (and you don't often see nihil and I agree)..Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
Moira: Why would you take exception to that... It's an example.. Everything gets put into context at some point.. I spent a year training people in a public access facility and two and a half year supporting invidiuals at a college, half of the 30,000 students were "Adult" students... in both cases it was the "Adults" and more often than not the 'Older Adults' that were coming in for support and training... When people discuss computers and lack of knowledge, they usually see that little old lady who emails her grandchildren once a week and talks to them on MSN... it's in the commercials, on the TV... everywhere... I picked a generalization and went with it... so chill... I could be rude and make a comment about call center lifers (I spent time in call centers as well... but I was in college and it was a good part-time job and I've seen the people that work there I've also see the "Adults" that pass the training and then claim to more than the young people yet sit and fubar everything... and yes.. I've also see the reverse)... regardless chill.. I made a generalization.. and I picked a pretty popular one in today's society... Turn on the TV.. it's exactly what you'll see.
very_unhappy: Considering you add zero content to this site... I'm extremely tempted to ban you... You are a zealot.. something that the security community frowns upon... There is no "OS Philosophy vs MS Monopoly"... that's something a linux zealot uses to argue their "zealotness"... There is no philosophy related to operating systems... Just as there is no philosophy related to software (FOSS people can take their "philosophy" and shove it for the most part)... That's why most of the people that claim it's a "philosophy" can be categorized and generalized against... They're the hippies that never got the 60s and Operating Systems are their 60s and 70s.. Microsoft is their Vietnam War... FOSS is great... Linux is great.. but everything has it's place... When it comes down to it... You use what works and what is most productive for you... Which is why Linux can't win... OS X is doing great right now.. but it's doing great because of Microsoft and Adobe... CS brings in the advertising people... it performs better on a Mac than it does on a PC... The rest of the world wants a PC.. Microsoft, by providing Office on OS X, has helped Apple.. Now OS X has productivity software that can compete with Windows... Linux doesn't.. OOo just doesn't compare.. I can give you examples in every field on what it doesn't compare... Productivity wise Windows and OS X will always win... Linux can't compete and it will take quite a while for it to compete because of the "FOSS" philosophy that drives it...
I'm betting you're against this Novell / Microsoft partnership as well... yet it's the one thing that can benefit the Linux community.
The end matter is just because there are fewer viruses, doesn't mean it's
A) Easier to use
B) Has more software
C) Won't see more viruses in the future..
His parents are fine on Ubuntu now... but in two weeks when Dad goes to the store and buys Deer Hunter to play in his free time... things will start to change...
Grow up... and get a handle on the real world.
Peace,
HT
ohh yeah.... well my dad can beat up your dad?!?!?!?
What the hell is wrong with people? I can stand on any soap box and claim that SpyrusOS is the best thing in the world for anyone, its like one of those old MSN TV internet boxes. Its easy enough for the beginner but offers the security the pro wants....
When it comes down to it Linux, Windows, OS X, Lindows, whatever your flavor.... the popular choice is..... (drum roll please) Windows, big surprise, might be why they are an enormous company. It is a product that the masses know how to use and is exploited for the same reason. I dont know why the more I see people talk about preferred OS's the more I think it should be grouped with Politics, Religion, and the like.
If you are dead set on your OS then thats great, like most the people here, I prefer to dabble in all of them and learn from my experiences (I run ubuntu, windows, suse, and some various windows servers). I will have to agree that the second this kid leaves his parents and they want to use any major application they are foobar'd... like for instance deer hunter or better yet April and tax time, think dad will be able to figure out how to put Turbo Tax on his box? Not a chance
If you can't go into a discussion with an open mind what is the point of bringing it up in the first place?
haven't had time to "add content" lately
but I did in a past under other nicks. What's the point of adding content when I'll get banned by someone like you anyway. I guess it's a catch 22.
HTRegz: I realize you're making generalisations, what I'm saying is that I'm not sure they're even based on truth nowadays and it does nothing to combat inherently outdated prejudice to dismiss every dumb user as an emailing granny (or every granny as a dumb emailing user). Goodness knows what you'd think of me! I'm a female user with AOL as an ISP and I work in a call centre :D
And let me tell you that call centres are full of people just like you, ie students working to fund a degree, who take away with them a renewed determination to study hard and get a decent job, having learnt that call centres are not full of monkeys without the intelligence to work anywhere else, just full of people stuck there for a variety of reasons who only come across like monkeys because that's how they have to do the job and they can't afford to get sacked.
There's no banning "willy nilly" here. People are banned if they merit it.
I have to agree with JPnyc here.................I don't think that I have banned anyone for a while.............OH! apart from a couple of spammers............and I think that HTRegz caught some recently as well?.......... hey I am an IT professional.............. if I want Viagra, I can find it myself without having to have it advertised on AO?
:p:D;)
Comparing Windows and OSX and Linux is like comparing
oranges to apples to...vegetables. Apples and oranges
are sweet and tasty, but it's just not a good idea to live
w/o your vegetables.
Eat more Linux...it'll keep you regular. Just my 2bits. :)
So Linux is kinda like metamucil? sort of a Fiber supplement? I hear baby wipes do amazing things too
Err .... is it just me or is everyone making incomprehensible posts tonight? brokencrow, you're saying Linux is like a vegetable, ie a necessary food, but not as sweet and tasty as OSX or Windows, ie fruit?
*shakes head*
Moira, I think that brokencrow was indulging in a spot of irony.
If not it is certainly a case of "Landlord! can I have a pint of whatever he has been drinking?" :drink::D
I think the latter :D
Edit: one for HTRegz
Are College Students Techno Idiots?
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/11/15/infolit
Seems it's not just emailing grannies who are computer ignoramuses :D
A spot of irony, indeed.
I've repaired numerous Windows systems using Linux, particularly live cd's. Data recovery, testing hardware, networking, even viruses. But I've never been able to use Windows to repair Linux. Why is that?
I never said it was just emailing grannies.. that was an example.. nothing more... I could tell you tons of stories about college students that are idiots... so I'm not sure how that fits in..Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
Brokencrow: I'm not sure why that is but I'd be curious to know... I have fixed Windows with Linux, OS X with Linux and yes. Linux with Windows (actually i also fixed Ubuntu PPC with my OS 9 install disks on an old iMac)
Just as Linux can't natively write to NTFS (and for the longest time couldn't even read it)... Windows can't natively read/write to ext2, ext3 and reiserfs, however there are plenty of tools that will allow you to read those drives.. and I have used those tools to recover dual boot drives...
I've also used NTFS DOS to rescue windows... I don't think your point has any bearing.. I also don't think saying Windows is fruit and Linux is vegetables is accurate either.. but that's a whole other discussion.
Hmmm,
A bit of a reality check please?
1. Operating system repairs.
I would say that most Windows repairs are done in Windows, Linux in Linux and MAC OS in MAC OS. I would put the figure at 90% or better. It is relatively unusual to have to resort to an alien OS for the job, unless that happens to be your method of choice?
I have no idea other than a sneaking suspicion, so perhaps HT~ and other OS X users could enlighten me. Would it be reasonable that if you wanted another OS to repair both Linux and Windows with then OS X would be a reasonable bet?................particularly with the moves towards the Intel chipsets and processors?
2. E-mailing grannies and Moms
I have dealt with quite a few of these over the years............it is strange how infrequently I have been called to clean scumware and pr0n adverts from their machines, well compared to their son's grandson's and even husband's machines:D
When I have provided them with a machine (generally a second user device that I have upgraded/refurbished) I have hardened it and set it up to do just what they want. They want it to be as easy to use as the TV, DVD, VCR, Microwave, Telephone, and the like.
The problem with computers is that they are too user accessible, and user configurable. For that you can read "user screwupable":D
And it certainly is not Moms and Grannies who bring those machines to you in my experience;)
As I mentioned earlier, Linspire is the closest distro to this market that I have seen. However, with the recent partnership between SuSE and Microsoft, I have a feeling that this might change.
As I see it, the advent of Windows VISTA will result in a fair number of ex-corporate/institutional boxes coming onto the market. They will have been group licenced for Windows, so this will have been erased. SuSE will certainly run on boxes that will handle Win 2000 and XP, so there is a market opportunity there?
We all know that MS does dirty deals with the big OEMs, so I don't see it damaging their market for new computers. A development of SuSE into a more "Windows like" GUI for the second user and small OEM market might be their strategy?
1. They will be getting revenue in an area where they would otherwise have no hope of competing?
2. They would "appear" to be reconciling with open source?
3. It would kill Linspire?
4. It would attack Apple, particularly given their platform dependency and the fact that OS X is not significantly cheaper than Windows. You would now have a situation where reasonable performance (given intended user expectations) second user or small OEM machines would compete?
Just a few thoughts:)
**sigh**
...apparently I'm metaphorically challenged.
Well, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised there's Windows tools for mounting Linux partitions. And thinking about it, I have used Windows disks when I was hellbent on deleting an ext3 partition or two. So much software, so little time. At my age, the Merciless Heropass is more merciless than ever.
I've run everything from ERD Commander to Ultimate Boot Disk to PE disks (Bart's and MS) to Hiren's to you-name-it (ok, no OSX boot cd's), and the Linux stuff always seems to work better than Windows disks for the most part (yes, that's a generalization). And there's none of that convoluted, guilt-ridden licensing that plagues 90% of the software world.
My point, literally speaking, was, or is, that Linux is of unique utility. At least for me. It's difficult in some ways to compare OS's.
brokencrow,
Why do you seem surprised?
You are well aware that Windows is based on the philosopy that it is the only operating system on Earth?
Linux, on the other hand, is aware that there are at least other distros, if not OSes?
With Windows you load the CDs and can replace corrupt files, run a few utilities and do a repair install.................after that you have reformat and reinstall, which is Windows' "singleopseastic" view of life?
That is why I asked the question about OS X, although OS XI will probably be where it really starts to cut in?
Yes, people do use other utilities............like earlier versions of Windows that you had to start from a 3.5" floppy loaded "Caldera DOS"............errrr?
And Caldera are "SS"..............like "Scummy SCO" ? :D
I do not believe in these OS "wars" as they are fruitless distractions. Windows is tops because Microsoft marketed the best............it is as simple as that. I can remember "back then" it could just as easily have been Apple..............but they were locked into the obsolete IBM business model of hardware and software............. Gates went for the software only model, and won ;)