http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...AQ.xml&src=rss
saddam is dead and in a well-deserved way. so long, you piece of ****. too bad it wasnt on american tv...
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http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...AQ.xml&src=rss
saddam is dead and in a well-deserved way. so long, you piece of ****. too bad it wasnt on american tv...
I don't think much is over, 'cept his life.
So true! Seems like there's always another one in the wings just waiting.
IM everso HO
We are just as bad as he is......seeing the amount of civilians killed over there since the Americans have been there....and the actual recording of his last minutes....makes me sick.
I am disgraced as a westerner for having any part of this spectacle....
MLF
There is a real and moral difference in the accidental killing of civilians during war, and the targeting of your own people during times of peace. I don't see how anyone could ever equate the 2. The only similarity is both resulted in death, but so does driving a vehicle, some % of the time.
Yeah ...thats right....whole families\villages have been killed\raped accidently...
thats why those american soldiers are in jail
why dont we have a media specacle of thier deaths....seeing its all the same
MLF
I believe he definately lost his right to live a long time a go when he thought killing innocent people without pity was moral. Put yourself in the position of the familes who he destroyed, you would want him killed instantly. He's not worth keeping in a jail cell, and wasting valuble tax dollars on him. That money can be spent in a more useful way, or toward a criminal that may or may not turn out to be a better citizen than he EVER was. He showed no signs of change...EVER. He was defiant before sentencing, during sentencing, after sentencing and during hanging; where's the change in that? However, I don't believe he deserved to die in the manner he was killed. You can't fight fire with fire, being cruel to him makes no difference in the world.
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.whole families\villages have been killed\raped accidently...
thats why those american soldiers are in jail
It seems that they are being held accountable for their actions.
Doesn't this indicate that it is not our policy to commit
such atrocities?
Hmmm one less despot....I believe in my opinion, the method of punishment should have been the same that the Kurds were exposed to and a collector's edition DVD set produced so that the funds from them can be used to rehabilitate the countless victims of this despicable family.
Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, if there ever was a justifiable execution, this was it, unfortunately the way it was carried out was quite pathetic, if they (meaning the new Iraqi Gov't) had of conducted this without the tribal bias involved, it may have been a bit more palatable...I sincerely think those Iraqi's who until they saw the body as proof of his demise, can now get on with their lives. The fact he was hanging around (no pun intended Lol) meant that a lot of Iraqi's were not ready to celebrate their new found freedoms, it's like the boogeyman, until he is dead, there is the chance he would rule again, how many current Iraqi's would dread that day... (collaborators to name a few)..;)
All I am saying is.....
Who made us the police, judge and executioner of the world??
and it is not our place to humiliate prisoners...or anyone for that matter
MLF
I believe that was Halliburton and the Saudi princes.
We (the US) were neither the judge or executioner of Hussein. The "policing" (capturing and detaining him in the first place) was due to the threat he posed to the United States. We have that right when we go to war with a country. We call them war prisoners. :) However he was transfered to Iraq authority shortly after his capture we had no control over what happened to him next.Quote:
Who made us the police, judge and executioner of the world??
and it is not our place to humiliate prisoners...or anyone for that matter
Side fact: The US actually wanted to delay his execution a couple of more weeks, but Iraq officials proceeded with it as dated.
IMO he got what he deserved. He was similar to the cruelest man in history, not near close to him but similar in being a death dealer. The only thing Stalin accomplished was turning the USSR into a powerhouse.
BTW: does anyone have a link or clip of the execution?
I see this turning into a heavy debate. Im not a fan of American politics and their actions in the world however im not going to argue. Going to wait for another thread to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raion
Happy hunting MLF...
Saddam was small potatoes. As soon as he was deposed from power he became irrelevant. Raion is also quite correct in that the US didn't try or execute him. If you want to call the current Iraqi gov. a puppet of the us, fine, I suspect many will, but nevertheless they are the gov. of Iraq, not the USA.
Cider,
I watched it through Google video, keywords "saddam hanging"
you can watch the official sanitized video or the "cell phone" video.
Killing Saddam means nothing...as equally as his capture meant nothing too...
his capture did not result in peace...it resulted in more bloodshed...fighting escalated after he was caught and will continue to escalate after his death...
Iraq should never have been invaded...it was a dismal attempt by Junior to distract from the failure in Afghanistan and set the stage for a walk in the park like Daddy had...
only...he greatly miscalculated...and is now stuck in a quagmire.
Vietnam...deja-vu anyone...granted Iraqi's aren't as sneaky and motivated as charlie...but...a lost cause is still a lost cause.
Pull the troops out and let them sort it out. ;)
I'd love it, but I don't think we can now. It's our mess and we have to try and clean it up, at least as much as possible.
The object was to take out OBL...when that failed...the object became to rid Afghanistan of the Taliban and set the stage for democracy...when that failed then the object became to target Iraq and WMD...when that failed then the object became to rid Iraq of Saddam and set the stage for democracy...
when that fails...what's next?
Junior wants to go out with a win...no-one wants to go out a loser...so...what's next...
North Korea? ;)
Junior's got a gun...and there's nothing more dangerous than a child with a gun. ;) Right now junior's looking to go down in history as the most unsuccessful President in the International arena...all losses...no wins.
saddam killed thousands of innocent civilians in public. he should have been on pay-per-view. you see how scared he was before he got roped? good. im glad people can see there are consequences for their actions, there are too many immature people in power.
As George Carlin once said, "When a bunch of 'holy people' want to kill each other, I'm a happy guy!"
Should Saddam have been executed? Yep. Tried and convicted by his countrymen, sentenced to death. Puppetshow? Maybe. On the other hand, put yourself in the place of the thousands of people he persecuted during his presidency (despotic dictatorship)...all over religious beliefs and, of course, political views.
Are we facing the same thing here in the U.S.? Nope. Our votes are counted (almost) accurately. The people in Iraq had NO choice. It was Saddam or die (being very snarky, here).
What people here (in the US) fail to recognize is that contradictive speech is not allowed in powerful theocracies such as those that exist in that area of the world.
Should we be the World Police? Probably not. Are we capable of doing that job? Yep! That is the beauty of democracy, isn't it? Is democracy (I am well aware that we are a Constitutional Republic...give me some breathing room here) not the best system ever imposed?
Is our current President overstepping his bounds? Yes, certainly.
But, unfortunately for the foolish among us, that's not what this is about.
Ideals, way of life, and our American greediness and foolishness are the issue.
How much do you want to homogenize the world? One World Government? One way to live, IN HARMONY?....
Rethink everything, and the consequences...
Ouroboros
Saul of Tarsus................
But I don't think that "Junior" will get any divine revelations on the road to Damascus? :D
Nuke Iran, nuke Syria................ then let them think about it?
"To err is human,
To forgive, divine,
Neither are Marine Corps Policy"
;)
I wouldn't put it past Junior to nuke em'...if he could get away with it ;)
He's starting to look like the most militarily incompetent President ever...at least Jimmy Carter had an excuse, he was/is a humanitarian...Junior is just incompetent.
Every military campaign he has set out on has failed in it's objectives...as soon as he fails one objective he switches objectives...then fails those objectives...
he may have to nuke somebody just to ensure a win. ;)
Junior is presently responsible for more US deaths than 9/11...9/11 took 2752 lives...Iraq alone ( not counting Afghanistan or non-US lives ) has surpassed 3000...
had he had half a military brain he would have sent the full force of the military , a total and complete and over-whelming invasion, into Afghanistan at the very beginning when he had the full support of the world community and threatened a full scale invasion to any country who would harbor OBL...
inotherwords put the fear of god into the middle east...
captured OBL and gone home.
And maybe...he could have achieved the primary objective with fewer than 500 lives. ;)
A response of that magnitude would have sent shivers down the spines of most Leaders of the Middle East...thinking that could happen to them too if they harbor terrorists. ;)
Well, how many major US military campaigns have been overwhelmingly successful since WWII? Besides Desert Storm?
I'm not bashing the military, on the contrary. I'm bashing the politics behind it. This country has painted itself into a corner with its own policies. Since when has rebuilding a nation that's been invaded become a postrequisite to war? Try telling Hitler to go rebuild Poland.
The obvious response is that the US is trying to keep a civilizied approach to war. We don't want to put the image off that we are barbarians. God forbid we invade a country and *gasp*, not rebuild it and make it all "honkey-dorey" where everyone has cable tv and ice cream.
We're supposed to wins wars with minimal casualties. We're supposed to play nice. We're supposed to take this enormous cache of military might and invade countries with a god-like force that will strike fear into the hearts of anyone who sees it....but make sure we don't hit the local grocery store because we don't want to spoil the bananas.
Sigh. When did war become a media-enriched Romper Room with tanks and jets?
In any event, I'm glad Saddam was hanged. I hope that a-hole goes straight to hell.
No, he's s'posed to go to a white room with 71 virgins, who possess a total of 74 teeth.
Just remember...this whole situation was created by a lie...the ever so elusive WMD...remember those....by a president that wasnt really elected...but had some help from his bro and daddy.....
as for innocent civilians being killed....and genocide
Wake up..........its happening all over....and has been for years....try reading the fricken news once in a while.
Why arent we doing something about it all over the world.....
you know why........they dont have any oil :rolleyes:
MLF
Well let's say that's the excuse they used. The real reason behind it is one I suspect we'll never know. There's no way that the US gov. will go to war on the whim of someone who wants to finish "what dad started". No major power has a government in place which is that capricious. If they did, the world would be a dead ball in space by now. Whatever the reason(s) was/were, they're probably not what we're being told, nor what we're surmising. International relations are infinitely more complex than any of us entertain.
All I am saying is we should really shed this holy than thou attitude..cause we are just as bad as they are.....
MLF
Well no, because in fact, we're not. I understand the emotion coming from you, but it's not factual to say "we're as bad as they are". When 10's of thousands of americans are gassed by the US gov., then we might be as bad as they are. In order to be as bad as they are, we would have to commit similar acts. Citing military aberrations and trying to equate them to aberrant acts committed by a government on it's own people, does not equate.
People are people....whether they are your own civilians or some other country's........doesnt make it right
specially when its based on lies and control of the oil
I tell you I would be down right pissed off if some country came into Canada on false pretenses...killed my family and friends, destroyed the infrastructure.....then had the gaul to say it was for my own good
MLF
On one point:
Actually the US has performed acts upon it's own citizens...Bill Clinton, in 1997, for instance, apologized in office for the Tuskegee Syphilis Study where in 1932 blacks were infected with syphilis without their knowledge and even after penicillin was discovered as a cure they were allowed to continue to suffer for 40 years because the scientists wanted to be given the opportunity for postmortem examinations of the interior of their bodies.
And this is just one case of several that could be cited.
On another point:
Iraq was not invaded for oil...OBL and terrorists were the original objective...WMD was an excuse to invade Iraq after the first and second objectives failed...Junior thought it would be a walk in the park...
he was wrong.
That's truly horrific, but it's not the least bit current. So if you use a 75 yr old piece of evidence, the very most it might support is a statement like "we were as bad as Saddam". However even that is tenuous since we don't know that the government ordered it or knew about it. It might've been done by that group of scientists. We're also talking about a time period in which equal rights was entirely still a far off dream. Barbaric, absolutely, but a fact of our past.
It was government approved and sanctioned ;) That's why Billy-Bob apologized for it.
But...you're right...that was a chapter in the past...but it wasn't 75 years ago...the study concluded in the 70's ;)...1972 I think.
And it was one of many such studies and public experiments...and not only on minorities but also the poor of any color.
" If we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it " ;)
I can see reason why government would apologize for something like that even if it weren't sanctioned and approved by the gov., can't you?
I entertain no fantasies about our (or any) government being a shining example of right or justice personified, quite the contrary, however I can't equate them with tyrannical despotism.
I can see reason why they would too...but all the same it was sanctioned as were many others...the apology was an all-encompassing one meant to cover all such experiments rolled up into one nice package ;)
Absolutely agree...and have said so many times...of all Great Empires throughout history since the city-states of Greece ( and the US is an Empire ) only the US has been anti-colonial...the US attacks, invades, and has in some cases even pillaged...but it does not colonialize...Quote:
however I can't equate them with tyrannical despotism
the US might invade a country but it will eventually leave on it's own accord...it will not take the country and keep it...it will protect it's interests but allow for sovereign reign...
in this respect as well as many others the US is the most just and co-operative of all Great Empires. ;)
In fact I think history will testify to that fact...and record it.
This brings to mind a conversation I had with a fellow in a pub in northern England. He was saying that he feels that Great Britain did a better job of "leading the world", as he put it, than the US is doing. I pointed out what you just said, that we didn't colonize so much of the world, where GB did, once. We DID however steal this hunk of real estate by butchering a beneficent native people who were here 1st.
Then I told him, "You have no idea how much I would like to give that job back to you". I loathe our current role in international affairs, and not just under this administration either.
As far as an over-all picture of the US is concerned...it is the Greatest Empire that has ever existed...not only in sheer power but also in conscience...the US more than any other Great Nation that has ever existed is keenly aware of it's responsibility in wielding that power...
even though some politicians may abuse that responsibility.
The US isn't another country...it is an Empire...a social, political, and economic empire.
As long as China doesn't call in it's loans...:eek:Quote:
The US isn't another country...it is an Empire...a social, political, and economic empire.
"Bad Riddance"? Are you saying you think it was bad that Saddam was gotten rid of?
You realize that's a pretty unique outlook on the US, you have there, Eg. I find it refreshing.