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Hi,
Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...006655,00.html
Just wanted to see what people make of this - it's the sort of thing that you expect to see in a film: apparently the people were all bound up and shot at point blank range - the killers even went to the trouble of picking up the empty shells. Sick.
Sorry the link probably isn't to the best article.
ac
The shells thing is generally the sign of a pro or someone who watches enough movies to know that cops match casings to bullets to guns to find a trail of who possibly did it. So that is fairly common for the big boys.
ich bin enttäuscht total enttäuscht.
The article says that triad involvement was suspected. Triads are the Chinese equivalent of the Mafia. From what I hear, they are actually more ruthless. So I imagine there is more to this story than meets the eye. Then again most of my knowledge of Triads comes from Lethal Weapon 4 :D ...
You can actually learn a bit from movies that some people think is pure fiction. I learned about Thorazine from Halloween for example, that's a real thing I didn't know was real until one day I looked it up to see if it was just made up.
Hmm, just looked it up on Wiki, appears you're pretty close from what you learned in the movie ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad
I also had looked up the triads on Wiki, and the thing that I found strange about this is that it says in the article that in general they don't tend to get involved in killings if at all possible since it tends to be costly (and presumably risky).
The reason I said it was sick was because it's not like the killers suddenly went of their heads in a frenzy and shot the people, they obviously knew what they were doing and had planned it. Apparently someone was arrested with blueprints of the restaurant; it must have been fairly well planned.
ac
Thorazine? Tried it once in the 70's. That stuff's no joke...turns you
into a vegetable for a while. The movies do NOT do it justice. It's
absolutely horrid. I don't think they even use it anymore, do they?
I think they still use it as a sort of 'chemical straight jacket' ... not positive though.Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencrow
Shells?
My S&W K-38 (Model 14) never spewed them out at any time?
;)
Good point, nihil ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
jmho, guys, but any real pro will not take the time to look around for ejected casings; he'll shoot and scoot then change the firing pin and barrel (or modify them) or ditch the piece over the next bridge, depending on his time crunch. A pro making a hit is not on a budget that makes him need to retain the piece; only wannabes and foolywood authors play that game. The one thing the pro (or anyone else) can't control are the rifling marks on the lead still in the victims which can ID the piece as well as, or better than, the chamber/firing pin marks on the ejected brass, so why take time to go looking all over the floor for empty brass. But then, this is a whole 'nuther realm of discussion.
No matter if it's a Chinese restaraunt in Germany, or Luby's in Texas, or Home Depot in boogaloosa, or a hundred other incidents i can remember right now if the innocent, honest citizens are not armed they are targets with few places to go when the perps show up.
If you think that gathering up ejected brass from an autoloading pistol can be done in a restauaunt with tables, chairs, and slick floors where brass can slide for thirty feet in any direction, take just one afternoon and go burn a couple magazines standing in one place at the range or wherever you do your targets. If you wait until both magazines are empty, and then start looking for *all* your brass (remember, in the cafe the perps were not shooting at one stationary target from one place with both feet firmly planted) start the stopwatch again. By the time you find all your brass in the field the polizi from the next country could have made it to the cafe. The point i'm making is that gathering up brass would only be worth the time for wannabes, or someone who knows for a fact that he (they) have all the time in the world, or someone so cheap they have to reload their used brass, in which case they really should find another field of endeavor...
Of course, this is all jmho.
Yep, a pro doesn't keep the piece unless it is a really fancy sniping rifle? a Lite .50 perhaps.................... but then you are shooting from far enough away to make an orderly extraction?
If they haven't found brass at the scene then I would say the perps used revolvers.
As for ballistics............. with a semi-auto it is a few seconds to change the barrel & firing pin?
Anyways, Take a steel turk's head brush and a liberal amount of Motty paste......... scrub it thoroughly, fire 50 rounds of FMJ then clean it again and fire another 50 rounds............. ballistics will tell you S&W, Colt, Glock, Desert Eagle, Beretta or whatever, but it won't match to a specific piece.
And I would use either the Glaser safety round or mercury explosives......... no ballistics there ;):eek:
Another "trade secret" is to roll your own using lead shot and candle wax :D
Fair enough, but the point about them not shooting at stationary targets with both feet firmly planted is perhaps not quite so valid considering all the people were tied up at the time. From what I read, apparently the police got the little girl to re-enact the events with dolls and what she saw was the killers shooting the people at point blank range to the head, so I doubt they emptied their magazines :P
But anyhow, since I've never held a gun nevermind fired one I can't really comment much.
ac
As far as I know, they use it in psyche wards only, and only when it's the Dr's way of syaing "Damn it put that Dr down and quit smashing him head first into the wall!" and as you have correctly pointed out, from what I've read, you're concious but can't move anything in a vegetable like state.Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencrow
Anyway not to drag this off topic, I'm against murder so regaurdless of where it happened this is horrible. Shell gathering I always thought was a non amateur move... Possibly because I'm in Michigan where they seem to enjoy that specific move, but being someone who isn't a contract killer or gang banger I really can't say for sure.
Michigan seems to have fairly "whatever" outlooks on weapons. My best friend has an AK-47 and an M-14 that we used in his back field to do target practice after digging a trench to put the targets (An AK is a bit to powerful to assume it won't hit anything after it goes through the target as it can penetrate armor so we shot under ground) and not once were cops called on us.
Those guns were all legal though. But we both knew of people who could get guns off the black market with everything filed off.
After reading the Wiki a little more, I'm really not thinking these guys would bother picking up shells as they seem to have a good amount of cash.
Anyway, hi everyone :)
Hi there gore,
AK-47? that is a 7.62mm x 33mm round.............your M-14 is 7.62 x 52mm one hell of a lot more powerful..........you guys call it .308 Winchester.
If you are worried about overpenetration/travel the .308 is the one to watch. The AK-47 is little better than a machine carbine round.
Anyways, penetration is much more projectile dependent than projector.
Trust me, I am an accountant (and a bit worried about my Enron pension) :D:p
Yea I'd agree, though I think being responsible with any gun and the firing is important.
Hi all, next time you go to the range, put several targets maybe 3-4 feet apart (i use 4-8 targets, paper dessert plates stapled to upright pallets) and stand in one place and fire at all of them with one mag. If you fire at just one paper plate from one position, your brass (anyway my brass) whether .380, 9mm, .45, will be within a couple feet of each other, as long as you stand in one place and shoot at one plate. However, if you move yourself a couple feet, move the pistol from one position to another (up, down, sdeways) and shoot at several different paper plates, your brass will be scattered all over, maybe ten or fifteen feet radius. That's in gravel where it doesn't roll much. Do it with slick floors and the brass will be scattered so far you'll be hunting for it until you start thinking of what time was lunch supposed to be.
Anyway, Nihil's .38 wheel gun saves a lot of time hunting for brass.
That explains a lot.Quote:
I am an accountant
re round size being more important than weapon, round size = velocity and damage/penetration potential, barrel length = accuracy. (as well as of course quality of weapon/ammo).
I once played a game where they were lazy and most bullets were 9mm, yet if you put them in a desert eagle it did 3x the damage. Drove me slightly nuts.
As for collecting spent ammo, even IF they get a decent enough recovery to get a match (bullet fragments are no good of course) they still have to have your gun to compare it to, which means that they have to have probable cause to seize your gun in the first place. Bottom line: without OTHER evidence pointing to you, bullet evidence is useless.
Heck, same is true of most forensics. A single fingerprint just proves you were there. If that print is on a wall or door say, it proves NOTHING. You could have been there hours or days before the crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aardpsymon
Well that depends. If your finger print was found in a bank vault and you don't work in it, I doubt many people would be like "Well it couldn't be him that just proves he was IN there".. heh. And if that does work on getting you off charges let me know.
true, but think inside man. All you have to do is shuffle the customers around as hostages and say you were a customer not a robber :P
Hmm, where do you live again? *Giggle* Ich brauche geld ;)