I am not sure whether this belongs here, or in "Hardware" as it covers a bit of both.
An interesting discussion on whether to go to Vista for a new machine, or to stick with the old XP OS?
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6161250.html
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I am not sure whether this belongs here, or in "Hardware" as it covers a bit of both.
An interesting discussion on whether to go to Vista for a new machine, or to stick with the old XP OS?
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6161250.html
A difficult decision altogether i think,as was the case with all the other releases of windows too..Just when you get comfortable using the one the next release is only weeks away..I have also noticed here in SA that flyers from leading pc retailers now sell vista with most of their new pc,s or recommend it..My personal choice would be to still have XP PROF and make a dual boot with VISTA.That way you can gradually move towards vista when you are good and ready..Question though from my side anyway is..are they going to share and talk to one another??
That's the setup I currently have on my pcs. The laptop only has 2 days to go till activation and I still haven't received my free upgrade from moduslink yet, so I guess that machine will be XP until I receive the offiicial copy (I just put on the copy I bought for my main PC for now). I might even try activating it - chances are MS won't be too fussy.
My SFF has a dual boot which is very much an XP pro machine with just a small partition for Vista Ultimate. It's the computer the kids use and I don't think other users will want to grapple with Vista yet. My dual core here is just running Vista Home Premium which is going very well indeed. It didn't seem to like dual booting with XP, so I plan to put Suse or Ubuntu on the space I'd set aside for XP tomorrow.
I'm happy that my own computer is running Vista so well, I don't need to think about having XP on at all, as I've got completely used to Vista now. I find the various computers talk to each other extremely well - the data drives can be seen whether I've booted into Vista or XP on the SFF for instance. In fact the operating system drives/partitions are visible too. Right now, I'm making an Acronis image backup of the XP OS on the laptop and storing it on the F drive on the SFF, which is currently booted into Vista Ultimate, but I'd be able to do exactly the same operation if I had the PC booted into XP.
Vista isn't really that big a change from XP - nothing like Windows 3.1 to 95, or 98/Me to XP was. It doesn't take long to get used to.
Vista runs optimal @ 4gb ram, so it might be a better idea to wait abit and then upgrade fully :D
wait, sp1 should be out in 4 - 6 months then go for vista after the worst bugs are out
I don't think you need 4GB RAM. I read a slashdot link where somebody was discussing this and one of the MS techs said she was personally going to go for 2GB, which most people reckon is sufficient. My PCs have 2GB RAM (though I don't play games) and they run Vista just fine. Actually the laptop has 1.5GB and this is OK too. Sure it would be nice to have 4GB RAM, a faster processor and a leet graphics card, but you don't *need* that. What they do reckon is that Vista runs slower than XP with only 512GB RAM and I'd agree with that, seeing how much RAM is being used by the system when I run it.
It does seem a sensible idea to wait for the first service pack though - it's very buggy at the moment and the hardware suppor is a nightmare.
I'd LOVE to have 512GB of Ram in this laptop...and in all my other computers for that matter.
I usually give it 6mo to a year for ms to work out a bunch of the bugs that seem to be par for the course as far as their new release os's go.
i work for a PC retailer, bestbuy
the reason why they reccomend vista? because of the multimedia abilities
"you can attach a new digital camera, an mp3 player, a big screen tv, all to a multimedia center vista pc"
it makes money, although its hell for geeksquad... nothing is compatible, everything takes longer to accomplish, customers do not understand that when something is not compatible there is nothing we can do untill the vendo fixes the problem
the managers don't understand that either and we are getting sh1t for vista sucking so hard...
sry.. went off on a work rant
Vista has potential, but for the love of god if you depend on your pc for work or play stay away from vista for now
lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cider
However W98 gets all fuxy when you go over 750mb....
:cool:
I really hate when people make stupid obscure comments... In a 32-bit world, although the theoretical support is 4GB of RAM, you can't actually address the full 4GB... You see PCI devices share the addresses, so depending on your PCI devices you can actually only address 3 - 3.5GB of RAM making the remainder completely useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cider
As for Vista... I know people running it just fine on 512MB of RAM (you just have to live without Aero).... I'm running it with full Aero support on 1GB of RAM and it runs beautifully... The only time I run into problems is with GL-based games and that's because of Microsofts current method for supporting GL (since my GL card does't have manufacturer support)... Microsoft uses DirectX as a GL wrapper which gives you horrid performance on GL-based games..
Moira: Your comment about 512MB not being enough because you see how much is used... Example.. I use 50% of my RAM on boot... I have 1GB which means Vista takes 512MB (this is including the SUA tools starting up, Defender running, Automatic Updates downloading, etc)... However you have to remember that that's not all being used... Operating Systems and certain applications are greedy and take more than they need.... Exchange Admins are quite experienced in this... Exchange will take all available RAM (Exchange 2000 anyways) up to 1.5GB... Vista takes 512MB but not because it needs it.. just because it's holding in it reserve.
Two additional things... I wouldn't call Vista "buggy as hell" unless you're running a beta still... It has one or two minor bugs... but it's definitely not "buggy as hell" not even close... and hardware support exists.. as long as you aren't using old hardware... This goes back to the "We want more security, which means sacrificing legacy support"... It was a trade off and one I'm glad Microsoft finally made... Which brings me to the next point regarding XP to Vista being a minor jump... Considering 3.1, 95 and even 98 were just shells that ran on DOS the OS jump was minor... XP to Vista is pretty much the biggest jump they've made... They've attempted to hide this from the end user... but you shouldn't be on a technical forum if you're taking the end user view on an operating system.
I recently blogged on the "IT Expert, who's actually an end user" playing with Vista -- http://www.computerdefense.org/?p=269
Peace,
HT
**NOTE** I understand that I appear as a Microsoft zealot these days... It's a running joke at the office because it couldn't be further from the truth... I just don't like seeing people attacking amazing work and showing such disregard and even disrespect just because they don't like the company... It's BS.
Hmmmmm.................
I seem to recall that Cider is running 64 bit on at least one of his machines?
I would personally go for 1.5 or 2.0GB as it will not be wasted. Now, this machine was built a few years ago, and I stuffed 1.5GB into it............ I doubt if the last 512 has ever done anything............ it boots Win2000:D
My personal view is that Vista is not "buggy", at least by my personal definition........... it just doesn't support legacy hardware that well..........
My view is that if you go out and buy brand new kit you will have no problems...........try "upgrade" and you probably will;)
Well, it seems to be quickly becoming a non-choice. Just talked to a
Dell rep who told me XP is no longer available thru them with a new PC.
That's retail to home users. The business center is closed right now,
open on Monday, regular hours. We need 30+ laptops for some field
service techs and I'm hoping XP is still available. We run a lot of software
at work on 500+ computers, and I dread the thought of having to deal
with Vista issues as understaffed as we are. Chit, we're just NOW rolling
into XP and bagging our W2K boxes (gradually).
Does anybody know M$'s plans for killing off XP Pro besides the fact
support will end sometime in 2012? Are there any new PC's available
with XP still, hexadecimal? I need some laptops...
:confused:
Hey brokencrow I think that they will sort you, given the corporate thing.
I have sent you a PM.............. I am coming to the conclusion that we will have to look after our fellows?
Johnno:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencrow
I'm guessing you'll still be able to buy XP for quite a while... after all you can still get licenses for 2000... Support will end in 2014... As for purchasing laptops with the OS installed... most shops I've worked at have blow away the installed OS and installed their own... It eliminates the pre-installed crap that the vendor tends to put on the computer.
Funtime - I'll tell you what I've been telling all my clients who've not made the switch, then I'll tell you what I've been telling my clients who have:
"Yes, you should upgrade to Vista eventually, but I'd wait at least 6 months to a year before doing it. Perhaps then there'll be drivers out for your machine."
"Yes, there are no drivers for that particular piece of hardware yet for Vista. You'll have to live without it until there are, or switch back to XP..."
Welcome to the world of new OS's - we went through this at every Windows change since 95, and will probably continue to do so ad infinitum ad nauseum. I think the change to XP was perhaps the easiest because M$ decided to try to make it compatible with as much as it possibly could before releasing the OS - seems that on Vista, however, they learned their lesson..
My NIC - oops. That caused the whole consideration to be put on hold on my end. I wouldn't consider that 'minor' in any sense of the word since I need that one to do any other updates...Quote:
Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor found the following minor problems...
[edit for BrokenCrow]Yes, there are boxes for sale out there with XP still, but not new ones. For the record I'm selling old Dell Lattitude d600's loaded with XP Pro as fast as I can get them in and rebuilt (Picture this as - we sold the entire stock out 3 times last week and there's a waiting list), as well as all the other legacy boxes in my shop, while the (two) Vista boxes still sit there waiting for purchasers. I suggest trying those legacy shops local to you.[/edit]
The problem is that people are waiting for drivers for a lot of things that will never have drivers... it's part of moving forward... The hardware companies have seen that their old drivers won't work and they've seen that a new video game pushes everyone to buy the latest and greatest hardware, they're relying on Vista to do the same... If I'm a hardware vendor, why would I want to put out drivers for my graphics tablet that's 5 years old (a problem that I have)... I'll force the consumer to purchase a new one... Is it a PITA...yes. Do I understand it as part of business??? Yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by |3lack|ce
Let's compare Operating Systems to forms of recorded Video playback... I could hook my VCR up to my Coax on the back of my TV... then DVD players came out... If I wanted to use that same connection I had to spend money (converter) ... or I could purchase a new TV (still spending money) with RCA Jacks.... Now with Blu-Ray / HDDVD coming out the same thing is going to happen again...
People don't want to accept it because Backwards Compatibility has always been huge in PC-land but now with the need for more security... there's not as much backwards compatibility..
I consider that to be quite minor... Who cares if you can't install updates without a NIC... you also can't be attacked so you don't need the protection those updates provide :) ... The other reason I consider it minor... a new NIC can be purchased for under 10 bucks.Quote:
My NIC - oops. That caused the whole consideration to be put on hold on my end. I wouldn't consider that 'minor' in any sense of the word since I need that one to do any other updates...
Also just because the Advisor says it won't work does't mean it actually won't..
Yeah, I recently did the imaging for our new Lenovos. Lawdy, they didQuote:
Originally Posted by HTRegz
indeed come with a lot of pre-installed crap. I actually deleted much of
it, then ran our copy of XP/sp2 over the top of the factory install. Turned
out nicely. The one thing I was wondering about was our license "pool".
My understanding from my supervisor is that a laptop coming in with an
XP C.O.A. adds to our overall license count, though we are indeed using
our volume license after imaging. I wonder if this is kosher with MS's finely
printed Indian treaty...er...license?
Nihill hit the nail on the head, "But..."
Could someone tell me the bottom line difference between the below two sources for Vista Home Premium? Like, perhaps, does one have to have separate drivers (understand the 64-bit drivers have to be ordered to match your original Vista OS serial number) Seems like back in the old days I got some boxed sets of W2G, which loaded all by themselves, and then a couple of "OEM" copies of W2G with other boxes which required some sort of extra boot floppies to install.. or something like that.
Anyway, i just wanted to move into the next generation of components so if i crater in the next while my wife won't be stuck with yesterday's computer and have to sort out lies from some sales person to upgrade later.
So i downloaded the "Vista-test program", and it told me to take a hike on every box we had except the laptop, and it would only accomodate the Basic Home version of Vista. So Acer said they'd 'upgrade' it to Vista Basic for fifty bucks, which was nice of them, but since it's running good and serves us well when we're away from home, i though i'd just leave it that way with XP perking along. Wife does her finances and email for us, and i play spider-solitaire and keep track of websites...
So anyway i just got finished building a new box and i want to put Vista (not the basic home version, nor any 'upgrade' version) on it. i already loaded Novell's boxed version of SUSE 10.2 on another box but don't believe she would like that so well after being used to all the prior versions of MS Windows. So am going to load up the new box with Vista, but need to know what's the difference between Tiger's price and MS's price. Tiger doesn't seem to say theirs is an "upgrade", which i don't like upgrades anyway, i like the full versions so i can give yesterday's toys to the kids and not have to keep them around in case the box needs reloaded sometime.
So anyway, here's the new box, i really don't know what i'm doing in all this new technology and parts but it's finally up and running with W2G so i'm ready to start over and make it use today's Vista OS instead of yesterday's.
Nforce 570 SLIT-A V-5.1 Dual DDR-2 667 w/8-channel sound, 2-Gig RAM (MBoard can handle 16 which (Linux and) the 64-bit version of Vista can handle, but i can't find any single-4's and don't want to invest too much in 1-gig-chips until the 4's come out), twin XFX-7600 video cards bridged, (2) 320-Gig Seagate SATA 7200/16mb drives fed from (2 of the 4) SATA feeds on the MBoard, (2) Ultra-ATA drives 160gig Seagate/80gig WD fed Cable-Select from IDE-1, (2) Dual-layer CD/DVD R/W's fed Cable-Select from IDE-2, (2) 3-1/2" USB-fed 7-in-1 Digital Media/floppy drives, Intel 3.0gig Pentium-D, Hec 580-w blue glow-light Power Supply, Apevia case (blue glow-lights also, see-thru side, kind of cool, should be a good girl-thing for my wife), 4-USB's in rear, 2-USB's in front, 1-Firewire, temperature readout, and a knob on front that i don't yet know what it does, and that's about it.
Except that Linux didn't really "see" the two SATA drives hooked to the MBoard, and neither does W2G, yet. But i havent' finished updating W2G and adding all the drivers for all the components either. Just wanted to find out what the difference is between the two prices below so i'll be ready to choose my vendor for Vista when i'm happy with the W2G install. There's about a c-note difference between Tiger (is Tiger's just an upgrade? Doesn't say so) and MS's "full version", and that difference could buy a lot of something else i probably need. Here's the links for the two prices:
- OEM $119.00 From TigerDirect
- Boxed "full version" $239.00 From Microsoft
Apologize for the lengthy post, but this is probably the last box i'll ever build. And if anyone is interested i'll let you know how it turns out with Vista.
This is the best take on Vista that I've seen - brilliant article!
I hate to be rude but I have to say this... The fact that you find it brilliant explains to me why you aren't actually in IT..Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
There's a conversation discussion something technical and you pull it off with a completely useless opinion post that is full of technical inaccuracies. This is why allowing just anyone to have an internet presence is a bad thing.. The fact that the author is allowed the free speech that let's him say such useless drivel is a bad thing... It's the type of thing that makes me want to sometimes question free speech.
For example... changing/viewing the resolution on Windows XP:
Right Click on Desktop --> Properties --> Settings.
It displays the Monitor and Display Adapter and the resolution and allows you to change it.
Changing/viewing the resolution on Windows Vista:
Right Click on Desktop --> Personalize --> Display Settings.
It displays the Monitor and Display Adapter and the resolution and allows you to change it... Oh yeah... and UAC doesn't kick in when you change it..
So some names that you click on have changed... big deal... If you want to knock something knock it for legitimate reasons, not because you're an idiot who can't realize that the name of something has changed.
Errrrrrrrrrrr....................I assume that we read the same article. It looks like a Luddite attempt at tech humour to me?
If it isn't, all I can say is: "Inkeeper, I will have a pint of whatever he has been drinking" :D
And how long have you been feeling this way? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by HTRegz
Aw C'mon guys & gals that article just cannot be serious.
I remember seeing something similar from an AppleMac guy back in the days of Win95:D
To cut across country a bit, I do see that there will be older kit going at knockdown prices. That could be useful for students? hey you only need one machine for safe surfing and whatever, and you can use old stuff for educational and experimental purposes.
Talking of which, I have just installed a security camera system for a couple of small guest houses............ PII/333 384Mb PC133 and running Win98SE. Dirt cheap and it does the job ;)
HT~ is right when he says you cannot expect drivers for old kit.......... you wouldn't really want to be using it with a new and revolutionary OS like Vista would you?.
If you have a fancy piece of old kit like a plotter or whatever, just hook it up to an old PC that will run it, and transfer whatever from your Vista box?
This isn't new.............when XP was released a lot of resource and compatibility issues were found. I had a box the other day PIII/667 with 64 Mb of RAM. Someone had put XP pro on it, and the thing was sharing RAM for the onboard video:eek:
Like it had about 48Mb to play with?............ stuff didn't happen in a hurry:eek:
No, you don't hate to be rude, you're loving it - if you really hated being rude you wouldn't have tried to start a flame war.Quote:
Originally Posted by HTRegz
Good grief and you reckon you should be allowed on the internet with freedom of speech ?!? That in your world, your contributions are so valuable that you should be one of the "chosen few" and people like me, or the author of that article wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a computer or the internet? As you may have noticed I'm not the only person to have found that article good in its own way. When I said brilliant I wasn't necessarily commenting on the technical accuracies, more the fact that the author could be a professional writer if he chose.Quote:
There's a conversation discussion something technical and you pull it off with a completely useless opinion post that is full of technical inaccuracies. This is why allowing just anyone to have an internet presence is a bad thing.. The fact that the author is allowed the free speech that let's him say such useless drivel is a bad thing... It's the type of thing that makes me want to sometimes question free speech.
I know there were technical inaccuracies and I'm not the idiot you seem to be implying. And I know one thing - I'm not the big headed, arrogant jerk you are, who goes around insulting people beyond what is reasonable, and who is so full of himself and his 1337 sk1lz that he thinks he's God!
I've often thought someone responding to a thread I'm involving is making a useless, inaccurate comment. But I'd say something like "I don't think that was particularly appropriate" etc etc, there's no need to launch into such an insulting post :fpissed: aren't you a moderator as well?
I came here because I found a lot of interesting people and have enjoyed being involved in some very good threads where I've learned a lot and enjoyed debating many things. However, this sort of flaming is not what I look for in a forum and I doubt I'll be visiting much in the future, which is a pity, but no doubt excellent news as far as you're concerned because I won't be expressing my opinions here. My useless opinions.
I'm sorry - you had no need to get personal. You have no idea why I'm involved or not involved in IT and you don't know me at all.
To be or not to be, that is the question.
Then you have to decide between the three versions.
I have always thought they need to send the pc with the software, and a fresh format. If you can't install and configure the system then you have not business having one. This of course would reduce a great majority of the profits for this market. It would how ever force users into learning a bit of something. It has always been easier to appreciate something when you have to earn it anyway.
/2 cents
Moira: you have an odd idea of what constitutes a flame war... This was a single comment.. which you actually responded to with multiple personal attacks. As for me being a moderator... I'm also a member, which gives me the right to speak my mind... just as you spoke yours in result..
Allow me to explain my comment...
A) The article you posted had no technical merit... This is a technical discussion (as it is in a Technology Forum)...
B) The author of said article was an idiot... He admitted it took him a while to find display settings (I use a computer on a day to day basis that could easily find display settings and change the resolution... I tested this with my fiance)
C) The article was (as nihil pointed out) an attempt at humour, and would belong then in either humour or even GCC... maybe even addicts... posting it here implies you think it's serious.. as does the fact that you called it "brilliant" and not say "humourous". Although writing technically inaccurate information doesn't make something funny... otherwise "Linux runs every Windows binary" would be just as funny and as accurate as that entry was.
The conversation got technical... I replied to your posts with technical comments... you chose to divert the post along non-technical lines instead of responding...
K, before this thread gets way out of hand, I will point you all to this board's future if something isn't rectified immediately:
http://boards.swirve.com/board.cgi?b...ardid=alliance
About 8 years ago, it was an online utopia. Everything was on game-topic, and anyone who stepped out of line was given a time-out. Today, off-topic posts run rampant, the moderators and the Admins do not care, and flame wars happen so often they're literally boring.
Hmmmm.............are you not sure that you have't been visiting the Microsoft support site?
About 8 years ago...............no I won't even go there............. and moderators do care;)
Errrr...............joined December.............. how many posts?
ack phtt!
As Bill the cat would say...................