Vista - Arrogance & Stupidity

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March 22nd, 2007, 01:47 AM
acidtone

Vista - Arrogance & Stupidity

i stumbled onto this interesting article earlier this morning, and i thought that i'd make a thread about it.

anyhow it's pretty long, so i'm not even going to attempt to quote the whole article, ill just quote a little bit of it to give you a little taste. ;)

Quote:

Upgrading to Windows Vista has been banned by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), technology giant Texas Instruments and other corporations and government agencies (V1, V10, V11). These organizations are evaluating their options, but overseas it's turning into a stampede to get out of Microsoft software (V15).

A little further down the article:

Quote:

What should Microsoft do? Their most basic mistake is "one size fits all", holding that an entertainment device is equally suited for business. This is now obviously and painfully false. Microsoft should immediately develop a version of Vista for business with DRM completely stripped out. Perhaps they could disable playing of "premium content" entirely if they could do it cleanly - "premium content" has no place on business computers anyway.
Will Microsoft do this? No. Instead they will "stay the course", increasing PR expenditures, working on ways to kill Windows XP to force Vista adoption, and ramping up their misinformation and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) attacks on Linux to "full rabid" shrillness.

Anyhow here's a link to the full article, i found it interestin' enough.
http://aaxnet.com/editor/edit043.html

cheers
acidtone..:)
March 22nd, 2007, 03:42 PM
RoadClosed

So this guy is pissed about DRM? Don't use Media Player. Pluse the media edition is included on Vista ultimate definitely not a wise choice for business who actually block media content for the most part.
March 22nd, 2007, 03:46 PM
Cybr1d

Quote:

Quote:
What should Microsoft do? Their most basic mistake is "one size fits all", holding that an entertainment device is equally suited for business. This is now obviously and painfully false. Microsoft should immediately develop a version of Vista for business with DRM completely stripped out. Perhaps they could disable playing of "premium content" entirely if they could do it cleanly - "premium content" has no place on business computers anyway.
Will Microsoft do this? No. Instead they will "stay the course", increasing PR expenditures, working on ways to kill Windows XP to force Vista adoption, and ramping up their misinformation and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) attacks on Linux to "full rabid" shrillness.

Looks to me like Mr. Grygus is just upset at Microsoft in general.

Microsoft released Vista home basic ( XP home), Vista home premium (media), Vista Business (professional) and Vista Ultimate to combine the security of business with the extra content home premium gives you.

so yes... microsoft does have a vista for business....!!!

As far as costs...you can get vista ultimate for as little as $200 for the OEM...all they require is an internal component to make the purchase (i.e. a fan).

Quote:

A confusing new user interface. Vista actually reduces user productivity according to a consulting firm's study (V7).

Wrong. You can disable the VISTA theme altogether and the user will practically have the same interface as XP.

Quote:

Blamed for so many security problems, Microsoft has placed security responsibility right where it doesn't belong, squarely on the shoulders of the average user. Confusing security pop-up dialogs are so common users get used to just hitting "Yes" automatically to everything, including malware.

I agree. Microsoft defenitely needs to work on that.

Quote:

Most existing software is not compatible with Vista. You will have to purchase upgrades to almost all the software you run and many programs will never be upgraded to Vista.

Just as it happened when XP was released. How many Windows 95/98 work natively with XP...?

Quote:

It's an exercise in frustration to try to upgrade an XP computer to Vista. Few Vista drivers are available except for new devices designed for Vista, and manufacturers don't plan any.

20+ Upgrades I've done so far were piece of cake....

Quote:

Even many current printers don't have Vista drivers, and many never will. Developing Vista drivers and getting them approved by Microsoft is just too expensive.

Canon/HP/Epson have already released new printers compatible with vista. Many of the previous versions of these printers have the drivers built in to vista. Some of the printer's features are not fully supported...such as duplexing...but according to the HP, Canon and Epson representatives, they're working very hard to get those issues straightened out.

Quote:

Vista is effectively a Windows price increase. Vista Home Basic, shipped with lower cost consumer market computers, is rather minimal, This often forces a $79 upgrade to Home Premium (equivalent to Windows XP Media Center) or Ultimate for $139. Vista's built-in Anytime Upgrade handles that - have your credit card ready. Actually all versions are on the machine but must be "activated".

Vista home basic is aimed exactly at the lower cost consumer market...so what is the problem? XP Home edition was never aimed at the high end units...
You can get Vista home premium computers as low as $450.

Quote:

Vista Activation is a hassle and failure prone, but Microsoft says they'll be turning the screws down even tighter due to rampant piracy already taking place. This does little harm to the pirates, just to legitimate users (V5).

Vista Activation, should it fail or be aborted, phones home to Microsoft with enough details to identify your computer and possibly your location (V3).

The activation takes seconds to complete....why would anyone want to abort it? As far as failing...if the machine is not connected to the internet...it will fail. I have called M$ in the past for offline activations...and its been very very smooth.

Quote:

Vista's much ballyhooed security has already been shattered in various ways, and Microsoft's One Care, intended to protect Vista from malware, has scored at the very bottom in independent tests of anti-malware programs (V2).

Very true..but no1 is forcing the user to use one care.

My take on this guy...he's a Linux whore who's just pissed off at microsoft in general...and not vista.
March 22nd, 2007, 09:57 PM
nihil

I don't think that is really about Vista? more about M$ marketing...........

I do feel that there should be a "lower grade" (cheaper) alternative for commercial users............ as RoadClosed rightly points out, the media stuff just isn't needed.

As for "upgrading"............. duh? what planet do you live on? ............... like nobody round here upgrades operating systems.......... OK, service packs yes, but the whole OS? only when the box is replaced.

Sure, there are those who have bought "Vista ready" boxes........... those should update just fine............ just try it with a Win2000 box ;)
March 23rd, 2007, 12:18 AM
RoadClosed

Originally MS was going to allow home basic to be licenseed on multiple home computers. Haven't read the EULA even though I have 2 Vista Machines. Another validated family plan is Home premium. For one copy you can buy additional "family" copies for 49 US. Not bad. and since all the version share the same core you can do it from within winders.
March 23rd, 2007, 11:23 AM
Aardpsymon

Gee, old software won't run on the new OS? aww no! is it possible that is because....ITS A NEW OS??

Not everything has drivers? again...ITS NEW. Give them time. Its not as if getting drivers for linux is easier.

Quote:

Vista Activation, should it fail or be aborted, phones home to Microsoft with enough details to identify your computer and possibly your location (V3).

No, all a failed activation can return is your IP address. Unless you named your PC "I live on 46 Dove Street, London, L12 6AF" or something. Then from your IP they would have to trace it through your ISP and thats assuming it didn't just return the NAT address of "192.168.0.59" (I assume they are smarter than that of course) needing court orders etc. Then the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" kicks in.

Why don't I use linux? a whole number of reasons.

1) I like games. So sue me.
2) I like my drivers to be written by the company not some geek in his parents basement who happens to have the same printer as me.
3) I think the whole "Information/Software should be free" movement is bollocks. If I was to work my ass off writing software then spend the rest of my life supporting it, I would want paying. I need to eat.
March 23rd, 2007, 04:56 PM
thehorse13

The one point here not being addressed is why the big companies/organizations are banning the upgrade. There are several.

1) Legacy hardware upgrade costs. Budgets are tight and many of the older boxen will not run Vista efficiently.
a) The cost of new hardware
b) The cost to deploy enterprise wide
c) Unexpected/unbudgeted rollouts are sitting ducks for budget auditors.

2) Regression testing. NIST in particular has to do several things before they can deploy an OS.
3) User acceptance. Change interrupts business processes.
4) Custom app/core app support. If you can't run your custom core business solutions on Vista, what's the point of migrating?

Anyway, these are just a few reasons you're seeing this movement. It is important to note that the same thing happened when Win95 came along but the difference being public perception/acceptance of OS upgrades from MS. If you ever wonderd about the power of reputation then take a close look at MS today vs. 12 years ago.

Think business folks, the days of separation between security and/or technology and the business process(es) are things of the past.
--TH13
March 23rd, 2007, 05:21 PM
TejasV

Hi,

Quote:

I like my drivers to be written by the company not some geek in his parents basement who happens to have the same printer as me.

Hmm,you have not seen perhaps ,companies are also putting up drivers for linux too
www.linux-drivers.org
March 23rd, 2007, 05:49 PM
RoadClosed

Quote:

Hmm,you have not seen perhaps ,companies are also putting up drivers for linux too

That is true most manufacturers are getting real good at releasing Linux drivers. Printers do often lack however. ATI kicks ass at supporting Linux.

//EDIT speaking of video drivers, that is a major smack off with MS in my book. Take Nvidia, the MS Vista driver DOES NOT SUPPORT OPEN GL. Many games use it. So one has to rely on the manufacturer but unless you have a late model Video Card, the Vista driver will not even load. So you are stuck and YES I blame MS and Nvidia. Open GL is NOT some new fangled process. It's been around since the term "frag" was coined.

So what does the lemming do? Buy a stinking new video card. I am so ashamed. ;)
March 23rd, 2007, 06:08 PM
mohaughn

Yeah.. I like how the original author kind of neglects the fact that almost every major corporation has a ban on new software being deployed before it is tested.

They forgot to say how many of those same companies have policies against running untested version of linux. You can't run redhat or any version of linux on any of my companies laptops as far as our policies are concerned. It is not part of our standard enterprise software package.

It usually takes anywhere from 6-12 months for a piece of software to be tested and given the OK to be included in our "approved" software group. I just received an email the other day detailing the time line for the Vista testing. So while you can't run it right now, you will be able to run it in the next couple of months.

Quote:

Microsoft has placed security responsibility right where it doesn't belong, squarely on the shoulders of the average user.

Oh yeah.. I forgot. It is the responsibility of masterlock to make sure I lock my door everyday when I leave. Consumers need to wake up and realize that it is ultimately them that is responsible for their own security. Whether it is computer security, physical security, or financial security.
March 23rd, 2007, 07:10 PM
gothic_type

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadClosed

//EDIT speaking of video drivers, that is a major smack off with MS in my book. Take Nvidia, the MS Vista driver DOES NOT SUPPORT OPEN GL.

One of my friends had the same experience with an ATI card that came with his new Dell. The driver from the ATI site works fine, but the one that came with vista didn't support opengl (which was a bit of a bummer since his final year project uses opengl :P)

ac
March 23rd, 2007, 07:29 PM
morganlefay

Mohaughn makes an excellent point here

Quote:

It is the responsibility of masterlock to make sure I lock my door everyday when I leave. Consumers need to wake up and realize that it is ultimately them that is responsible for their own security. Whether it is computer security, physical security, or financial security.

MLF
March 23rd, 2007, 09:52 PM
TejasV

Win fs

Hi,
May be Microsoft should have included Win FS in vista.
I am working on Linux ,so don't know much about Windows
-------------------------------------
www.indiaesecure.com
March 24th, 2007, 10:42 AM
nihil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gothic_type

One of my friends had the same experience with an ATI card that came with his new Dell. The driver from the ATI site works fine, but the one that came with vista didn't support opengl (which was a bit of a bummer since his final year project uses opengl :P)

ac

This is a pretty annoying issue for the CAD boys. Vista is intended to run ActiveX whilst a lot of proprietary CAD systems use Opengl.

Vista does support Opengl, however, it is a very basic version 1.4, not the latest 2.0 and it does it over Direct3D, which screws performance.

The workaround is to load an ICD from the video card vendor. Unfortunately, this will most likely disable a lot of the Vista Ultimate eye candy (Aeroglass), but it will allow you to run Opengl just fine.

I haven't tried it, but I would possibly look at messing with user and hardware profiles to see if I can switch between the two?

:)
March 24th, 2007, 02:17 PM
rcgreen

Quote:

the MS Vista driver DOES NOT SUPPORT OPEN GL.

Isn't this just one more example of why you need to understand
that it really isn't about the OS, it is about Microsoft and their tactics.

Who would buy a car if you were then forced to buy their brand of gasoline,
tires, cigarettes and beer? "Chevy doesn't support Budweiser. You can
only drink Miller while driving a Chevrolet"
:cool:
March 24th, 2007, 06:24 PM
nihil

This is nothing new................Windows has been having problems with OpenGL since Windows 2000:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11...indows_opengl/

Nothing surprising, the only difference with Vista is that the fancy aeroglass won't work alongside it.

Windows is M$ proprietary software............ OpenGl is open source............ not really different from what you would expect is it?

:)
March 25th, 2007, 11:50 AM
TejasV

Hi,
If we are talking about eye candy,we can make Linux no less then Vista or even better
www.beryl-project.org

One just gotta love it :D
March 25th, 2007, 12:03 PM
nihil

Quote:

Originally Posted by TejasV

Hi,
If we are talking about eye candy,we can make Linux no less then Vista or even better
www.beryl-project.org

One just gotta love it :D

Technically, I can see no reason why that should not be true. There was the Lindows (later called Linspire) offering that was Linux based with a Windows based GUI?

I can remember back in the days of Windows 3.X ...........AppleMac was a far superior GUI. You will no doubt have heard the expression "winning the war but losing the peace"?

Well that is how I see Apple........... they had the edge product wise, but lost the marketing battle due to their obsolete (hardware based) business model. :)
March 26th, 2007, 03:29 PM
gore

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcgreen

"Chevy doesn't support Budweiser. You can
only drink Miller while driving a Chevrolet"
:cool:

Don't drink and drive. ;)
March 26th, 2007, 04:21 PM
D0pp139an93r

Quote:

Originally Posted by gore

Don't drink and drive. ;)

Smoke and fly... ;)
March 26th, 2007, 04:26 PM
gore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synful

Smoke and fly... ;)

MY Fiancee's Dad is a Pilot, that could be possible lol.
March 26th, 2007, 04:33 PM
RoadClosed

Quote:

Nothing surprising, the only difference with Vista is that the fancy aeroglass won't work alongside it.

Not true. Open GL is only invoked when something requests it. My Open GL games run fine with the Aero interface and NVidia drivers. In fact I can run them in a window and move it around with no performance loss.

Quote:

Who would buy a car if you were then forced to buy their brand of gasoline,
tires, cigarettes and beer? "Chevy doesn't support Budweiser. You can
only drink Miller while driving a Chevrolet"

The MS driver written by MS does not support it. The driver from the card manufacturer does. At least on one box, on the other it does not and is back to XP. Is it a bad tactice? Not sure about bad, stupid? Yes.

I think that anology is more like a MAC. ;) MS doesn't make these computers. In fact I am building one right now from a wide range of parts.