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When I bought my new laptop the people at Best Buy said that it was a bad idea to install windows xp on the new vista laptops. They said that the new machines are made for vista and that if i try to install windows xp on the machine I will FUBAR it. Has anyone heard anything about this??? Just wondering because im getting sick of Vista, It does have some cool features but its not practical for me right now being a computer science student and all.
KrYpToNiC
FUBAR it? There may be some components that might not be recognized by XP or that you should get drivers for first but I can't imagine it's impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonic
Perhaps just blow it away and stick your fav linux on it? ;)
I thought about that but i dont wanna go throught the hastle of trying to get the windows programs i need for school to run on it.
Hi kryptonic,
Yes, unfortunately it is not practicable to build your own craptop, so you are stuck with the components that the OEM foists on you. That means you get the drivers that are available for them, and the choice of OS that dictates.
Put yourself in the place of the component manufacturers................. their margins are squeezed to the pips by the bulk purchasing power of the OEMs.
Why should they give a rodent's rectum about people who want to put another OS on the system they bought from HP, Lenovo, Acer and the rest? Their contract was with the OEM to provide X,000,000 widgets at $y per item with drivers for Windows Vista. They did that?
I would pay about as much attention to what a Best Buy sales drone says as I would to a politician's manifesto :D
If you tell me the make and model of your box I will gladly research XP compatibility for you............. there might be work arounds?
The problem mostly lies with the fact that these products a built to a price in what is currently a highly competitive market. Nobody in the supply chain can be bothered to look at these things because there is nothing on the bottom line for them.
Welcome to the World of corporate capitalist reality my friend :eek:
Nihil,
So wat do you think? Should I be alright with installing XP? I know That I will have to get used to Vista Sooner or later but I wanna wait until its more stable.
Complete and utter bullshit, I can say with 99.99% assurance that if you wipe the laptop out and reinstall Xp there will be a driver for your hardware available. Before you do wipe it out find out what kind of nic card(and wireless) is in your laptop and download the xp driver to a usb drive or cdrom. This way you will not need another pc to download the remaining drivers that may be missing. Then go to the manufactures website, find your laptop model and download the remaining device drivers after the install is complete.
Good luck! :)
when I ordered my laptop from IBM I was given a choice of operating system. I refuse to go near Vista for at least another year, maybe two
Hey kryptonic,
Just give me the make and model, and I will check it out for ya. There are several of us over in my part of the World doing this sort of stuff for people and we share ideas and info. ;)
I know, I know, 20/20 superior hindsight is the only totally exact science that we have :D You really should have thought of buying second user, from one of those bleeding edge Windoze fanboys :lildevil:
I don't intend to go Vista until SP1, and I will build a dedicated machine.
It is a new OS by M$ standards and the sacred cow of "backwards compatibility" has been sacrificed.
Really?............. and you don't even know what make or model it is....... can you give me six different numbers between 1 and 49 for our National lottery on Saturday?Quote:
Complete and utter bullshit, I can say with 99.99% assurance that if you wipe the laptop out and reinstall Xp there will be a driver for your hardware available.
I purchase at least 20 laptops per year. Dell / Sony vaio when on sale.
I don't care whats installed on them when they come in. They have Windows 2K on them when they leave.
Best Buy. The only place on the planet where you can never touch a computer and get a job as a repair tech.
Nihil,
The Laptop Is a Compaq Presario C571NR. I agree about not using Vista until SP1 comes out. It doesn't function properly and on top of the Internet crashes alot.
To reiterate: sure it'll run XP. If XP can't find all appropriate drivers: http://h18002.www1.hp.com/cpq_support.html - select Software & Driver downloads from the menu on the left, fill out the model number below, select Windows XP from the list. They're all there...
Yup HP still provides XP drivers. I recently bought a Compaq 6910p and it came with vista so I put on XP and downloaded all the drivers NP.
Ok, lets separate things a little here and add a little clarity ( or muddy the waters. )
First things first: I got screwed. My son’s birthday was in the second week of February, and he needed a new computer ( he was running an old E-Machine with ME. ) A week before his birthday I went out in search of a new computer running XP, and I COULD NOT FIND ONE ! Every store I checked was selling only Vista loaded machines. No one would sell me one pre-loaded with XP. It was not until weeks after I purchased his new computer that some manufacturers started again offering XP machines as well, due wholly to customer demand.
To address kryptonic’s original post, I believe most of the problems I have noticed with wiping Vista and loading XP thus far lie with proprietary software dealing with things like Function Keys, Hot-Keys, etc. Similar things have plagued Linux users ( myself included ) for years.
Which is a nice transition into my next segment ( i.e. rant)
amenQuote:
I would pay about as much attention to what a Best Buy sales drone says as I would to a politician's manifesto
Should have been They don’t give ...Quote:
Why should they give a rodent's rectum about people who want to put another OS on the system they bought from ...
Example: Toshiba
A few months ago I attended a tech convention in Atlanta Ga. and cornered a Toshiba rep. My questions were regarding my Satellite’s extremely limited battery power, limited BIOS functions, and NO Linux support.
I was told, in no uncertain terms, I should have purchased a higher end machine and they will never support Linux ( the Laptop was a gift from my wife: I attempted to explain that they should at least make things like this known so those with little computer knowledge could at least be able to research it, but that suggestion was immediately snubbed. )
There are known problems concerning Toshiba Laptops when attempting to run Linux on them. And with the attitude I was subjected to from a Toshiba Representative, and the fact that most ( if not all ) now come with Vista, unless there are drastic changes in their procedures from what I have seen don’t expect any help from them converting a Vista pre-installed machine to XP.
Back to kryptonic’s problem.
I attempted to do a little research on this particular problem, and found a reoccurring with the HP site: there are things which are purposely so small that even with a magnifier are not legible!!!!! So what are they saying about their attitude toward their customers?
FWIW, I would just back up any data, image your drive, then just go ahead and reformat and install XP. If you have problems after that, ask for help, and if you can’t find any replace XP with the image you created.
IMHO, Vista brought to the M$ world what Linux users have been dealing with for years.
As for my Satellite: I run it mostly on Linux, and F*** the F-keys and their proprietary software. And I hope their stockholders choke on it!
Hi kryptonic "the East is awake" :D
Here is a blog you should read:
http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13554_1-9770230-33.html
Horowitz may be a bit soapbox orator but he does have his points. If you scroll down you will find the item where he bought a C571NR from BestBuy, for his daughter to take to college.
He trashed Vista and installed XP. He mentions a couple of things to watch out for when doing this ;)
The good news is that it can be done with very little effort. Fortunately the C571NR was previously sold with XP loaded on it.
I do wonder that if Microsoft could go back 2 years would they still do everything the same.....if they where honest enough to admin it when they **** up I could probably stomach the Vista debacle....
Dell UK originally put an email out to business customers saying that all new Laptops and Desktops would only ship with Windows Vista (except for the Ubuntu laptops that are going to start shipping at the end of Sept). Within three weeks they reversed their decision to state that due to customer demand you can chose between XP or Vista for the next 12 months - I also believe PC world travelled along similar lines too but can't substantiate this.
I am one of two people in my company that use Vista full time in work - I refuse to roll it out to anyone until I have throughly tested it's functionality myself - I started to like it for the first few weeks but after 8 weeks I despise it, I am going to keep it until the SP is released as see what that does for it.
My main gripe is that the menu structures and methods of navigation are not very intuitive at all....Oh and that they have done away with HyperTerminal and do not have telnet installed as a default.....
nihil wahts with your attitude? You are a mod?? LOL thats pretty funny Do you have your peanut butter and Jelly backwarrds??? The are no laptop manufactures making laptops that are not compatible with XP. 64bit XP yes.... but not 32bit... LOL
What laptop motherboard is only compatible with vista? Can you even find me one?
What intel/AMD processors only run in vista?? Can you find me one
What wireless card only runs in vista? Find anything yet??
What harddrive only works in Vista?? HUH HUH??
Memory??
Haha I can't stop laughing at you.....
Find me one component on any laptop made by any major manufacturer that only has a vista driver. You need to go to the Hardware manufacturers website to check... not to hp's or Toshiba's......Just because hp or Toshiba only have Vista on their website does not mean that the components have no drivers for XP.
So like I said maybe there is a .01% chance there is a component in your laptop that is vista only... but I doubt it.
hang10z this is true there might be a lot of isntances that the mfg for the laptop does not provide drivers for any os except Vista but there may be cases that the hardware is only supported in Vista because the mfg of that particiular hardware ONLY wrote drivers for it in Vista. Just because you havent seen a case doesnt mean there is one.
Please lose the attitude or I will have to pick on the dumb things you say also.
I agree with what Hang01z says - I may have phrased it differently but I do agree with his post.
hang10z,
That depends on what you mean by "compatible"?Quote:
The are no laptop manufactures making laptops that are not compatible with XP.
The actual laptop as a total assembly is probably XP compliant. The hardware could not give a rodent's rectum as to what OS you want to use, just as long as it gets I/O that it understands. The problem here is FIRMWARE ........... (why is it at times in my life, that I wish that I could type in crayons?)
The laptop manufacturer maker purchases stuff from component manufacturers, and specifies what he wants. If it is some $400~$500 craptop, then you will get drivers as specified........... on the other hand, if it is $3,500 worth of Alienware it will run just about anything.
Is it so much of an intellectual challenge to figure out that:
If old hardware stuff won't work with Vista because of the drivers; then the opposite is probably that stuff with vista only drivers may well not work with an older or different OS? O.K. most times you will get lucky and a generic one will do the job, but you cannot count on this;)
Errrrr............. have you ever used Linux? I suspect not from your comments.
Five numbers between 1 and 49 :p:D
Incidentally, I cut my first code in 1970............ Fortran IV............ 80 column punched cards............ real stuff...........
1. No command line
2. No GUI
3. No screen
4. No realtime processing
Before you were born by quite a few years huh? :D
Just checked their site. Was curious as to driver availability. They'reQuote:
Originally Posted by kryptonic
available for not only XP, but W2K also. The W2K driver page looks oddly
barren though.
Then there's no telling how well they go in, and whether you can sort
a base driver set from all the crap add-on software OEM's stick us with
these days. Cripes, imaging these days is as much about taking software
out as loading it in. :(
Hi Kryptonic,Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonic
I believe I read somewhere that Microsoft will be supporting Windows XP Service Pack 2 until 2014. So, you should have plenty of time. :)
PS: I think what MS calls "Mainstream Support" will last until some time in 2009. "Extended Support" will last until some time in 2014. This support will at least include security updates. You might want to do so research to investigate what else Extended Support will or will not include.
As a general rule if you have a vista box and you want to know if it will run XP:
1. If the model was on the market before February 2007 (as the C571NR was) there will be XP drivers for it, as it has shipped with XP in the past. This is providing that the build has not changed.
2. If it is a high-end machine made from retail components, there will be XP drivers because the component manufacturers want to sell to people upgrading their XP boxes.
If it is a budget machine that came onto the market after February 2007 then you need to be careful, as it will contain budget, made to order components that may well only have vista drivers.
Nihil, Listen maybe you want to go back over your last post and really take a look at what you are saying. You make absolutely no sense at all.....
There is no hardware on the market that is vista only. END OF STORY. Soon there will be 3d cards for CAD and highend gaming that run on Directx 10 which will not be available for XP as Vista is only capable (AS OF Today, there are rumors they might change this)
Beyond that it doesn't matter when the laptop was made, budget latops are not made to run vista as BUDGET $400-$600 USD laptops don't have the hardware for vista.. which is why you only see the top shelf laptops offered with vista. Also budget machines do not have special made to order components.. they have the most common and cheapest available on the market .. hence "Budget" LOL
Curious, Where did you pull this FEB 2007 thing from ??
So if you really do know then help out.. if not then if you are a mod its your reponsibility to not post false/"I'm guessing" info as FACT to people that need help. I don't care when you started coding... your experience punching basic math into cards is completely irrevelant...
Oh yeah I do use linux.. for snort and squid specifically..
Yes, there is.................anything that only has a Vista driver.:rolleyes:Quote:
There is no hardware on the market that is vista only
That is utter and absolute bullsh1t. kryptonic posted complaining that he was forced to use Vista. He bought his laptop here:Quote:
budget latops are not made to run vista as BUDGET $400-$600 USD laptops don't have the hardware for vista.. which is why you only see the top shelf laptops offered with vista
http://www.dealoverflow.com/computer...-450-best-buy/
That is $450 (USD) and it obviously runs Vista :D
Also, if the nonsense you are posting were true, there wouldn't be any budget laptops would there? because there wouldn't be a version of Windows to run on them.
Wrong again..................have you ever tried to build your own laptop? please tell us all where you managed to find the "common and cheapest" components.......................:DQuote:
Also budget machines do not have special made to order components, they have the most common and cheapest available on the market .. hence "Budget" LOL
What actually happens is that the OEMs go to component manufacturers and order parts to their specifications. Because they buy in such vast quantities and the items are not top specification, that keeps the price down. If you have ever taken different laptops apart you should know that is the case, because the components are different.
Because 30th January 2007 was when Microsoft released Vista to the general public. Obviously, anything that shipped before that shipped with Windows XP so the hardware drivers must exist.Quote:
Curious, Where did you pull this FEB 2007 thing from ??
Nihil is right...when shopping for a laptop for an exec
All I could get was Vista...and I wasnt about to send an exec out with an OS I couldnt support....so I look at the XP laptops. they were rare.....
Dell...amongst others....had XP on lesser hardware for approx 300.00 + CDN $$ more.
I finally found a beauty Acer with an AMD Turon......XP Pro
For hardware to run on an OS...you need drivers...no XP drivers...no compatibility
MLF
Yes,
Another point is that the OEMs have declared at least some machines to be Vista only, and that if you install XP you will void your warranty and support.
Possibly not such a big deal for corporate shops, but certainly worth thinking about for a private user.
This is the kind of thing I am thinking of:
Quote:
Yup...I am another not so happy laptop buyers.....I bought an Everex with core duo.....1 gig memory.....I spent 600 bucks...Seemed like it would be a good setup......
Vista had me going freaking nuts within 2 hours of setting up.....I got pissed and formatted to XP...at this point I went to grab drivers from the site and found that there were none. Just vista crap......well being home edition 32 bit....should work fine with those drivers I thought......WOW...wrong answer......
So I phoned support only to find out that I voided my warranty.......I told the guy he was crazy....How the heck does that void warrenty...He claimed because I changed operating systems......I hung up on him......OK...So I look back less than a week later to the support site at Everex.....I figured I would find another unit with same specs and try those drivers......I then realized that they have posted the drivers for XP with my laptop......However ...here is the deal.....
Everything is fine...except the Video.....Text is fine....But pictures are so badly textured...I cant take it......
Is there anyway Ive ruined the on board Video?.....It is VIA® Chrome9™ HC IGP (64MB shared memory, 128MB maximum) with DirectX 9.0 Support .....
Other than the pictures being so pixelated they are unviewable....the notebook is fine.....
If I can just work this part out.....I would be a happy camper......any suggestions would be appreciated
Comon DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!
VISTA is future windows OS.If you just stick to XP u will be FUBAR(R-recognition).
I suggest go for a dual boot with SuSE 10.2 and Vista (Ultimate rox if you are a gamer and iff you have a good graphics card).
Wait till Dec this year or March ,get used to Vista then make your own decision.
An interesting point of view you have there tapu.
1.Actually it is the current Windows OS, so, like yourself, I am surprised that a computer science student like kryptonic doesn't want to stick with it, even as a dual boot setup?Quote:
VISTA is future windows OS
I appreciate that the machine is a $450 budget device, so the Vista experience may not be that impressive (no "aero" and the like), but at least the fundamentals are there?............. only the "eye candy" is missing?
2.I don't agree with that, as I do not see Vista as being a Microsoft success story. If you look at sales, they are well below forecast and the shortfall is in business, enterprises and the like. Most "sales" are pre-loaded domestic/private systems. Look to "System 7"..............Quote:
If you just stick to XP u will be FUBAR(R-recognition)
I agree that he should persevere with it though, from an educational viewpoint if nothing else?
3.I don't............... unless I have misunderstood, this machine is really just a tool to be used in an educational support role. By that, I mean it is not a test or development machine? He types up notes, essays, papers and the like?Quote:
I suggest go for a dual boot with SuSE 10.2 and Vista
Perhaps a Vista/XP dual boot would be more appropriate? then buy an external HDD and partition that for a variety of Linux distros?
4.He has a $450 budget laptop............. he/it doesn't ;)Quote:
(Ultimate rox if you are a gamer and iff you have a good graphics card).
EDIT: "comon" should be "Come on" :D
Acctually the Aero does work on here :) and amazingly enough its pretty fast. I might have the product number mixed up or something because although laptop in the link you posted looks the same the hardware isnt the same. If Im not mistaken compaq released a version of this laptop with a celeron and then the one that I have which is Dual core. Also I spent $600.00 plus tax for it not $450.00 ( I wish I would have gotten it for that price tho).
On another note I have been getting used to Vista and its more Friendly then I expected. I haven't had to much problems with it and its still running pretty fast. It does play Halo nice so thats a plus lol.
Nihil,
Just looked more indepth at the link you posted for my laptop. It lead to the best buy website which shows this laptop for $599.99. Which makes me angry because I could have gotten it for $450.00 :-/
Hey kryptonic, I know the feeling. It's like going into the supermarket and buying a jar of coffee for $9 then next week they are selling two jars for $9 :(
Sometimes you see stuff very cheap; like $450. Now, you can buy one, but they try to sell you a "better model" for $600. That is really what they want to sell to you, the cheap one is just "bait" to attract your attention.
I believe this is called "overselling" and is actually illegal in this country.
You could get the dual core for $450, but the deal has now expired:
http://www.pocketdeal.com/deal-BestB...k%5E23860.aspx
Im satisfied with what I got. I feel I got a good deal even with paying 600. :) Im getting more used to vista but miss XP I guess mainly because I was so familiar with it.
Compaq Presario? I used to work for HP and I would agree with dinowuff but replace Best Buy with HP and repair tech with tech support! If you rang HP they'd likely tell you the same thing.
I wouldn't worry at all about replacing Vista with XP - if anything, you're likely to find drivers more easily if you've got HP installed. I was amazed when I first installed Vista, that out of 15GB of bloat, there wasn't even basic support for a USB key for instance - that only came with one of the first updates!
I've replaced operating systems on several laptops without ever encountering a problem. My old laptop came with Windows 98 - I first of all put Me on, then decided to try a stripped down version of XP (XP lite). That ran fine. I then added Suse 9, as a dual boot, which again worked very well. When I got my new laptop, it came with XP Media Centre Edition but promised a free upgrade to Vista Home premium, which I took advantage of in due course. Now obviously it was going to come equipped for Vista, bought in December 2006 and offering the upgrade, but the point is I've never had a problem switching operating systems. In fact, I never used the "upgrade" CD. I had bought an OEM version of Vista Home Premium for this PC which I installed onto the laptop whilst waiting for the upgrade to arrive. In due course it ran out of activation time, and when I got the upgrade I tried simply putting in the key I was given. I was surprised and pleased when it activated Vista! Now I know I can reinstall (in fact I have done) without problems which would have existed if I'd been forced to upgrade from XP.