Must be a hockey fan or 2 here, no? Right now the Sens and Carolina look like the class of the league. Discuss :)
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Must be a hockey fan or 2 here, no? Right now the Sens and Carolina look like the class of the league. Discuss :)
Since the Sens are the Wolfman's home team, I would have to agree that the Sens *are* the class of the league! :)
I'm a Flyers fan. I love going to their games. There is nothing like it. The Philadelphia sports fans are brutal.. Last year they didn't do so well, this year they look like a completely different team! Looks like the new coach payed off.
This is the best game ever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctQVwOn6rQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J750DlO94i4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KNCYeWHUVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leI4I-8tiGs
Well I assume you can guess which is my team.
JPNYC: No, I can't. Rangers? Islanders? No clue..
Bah, my teams the Devils.. blah.
Yeah, Rangers. Since the early to mid 70s. Funny you should mention the devs. I was just discussing the NZ trap on the NYR forum. I know Jacques Lemaire is still alive and coaching, but I do hope he's in a lot of pain while he's doing it. :D
LOL, how remotely cruel. :D
Yah, the NZ trap ain't cool at all. It may get you far overall in points, but man does it ever create a boring game to watch! Just look how many people show up to New Jersey games.
Jersey is no longer playing the NZ trap. In fact, with the 2 line pass allowed, and restraining fouls being called as tightly as they are, the trap would no longer be as effective as it was. Your opponent can now have 2 forwards up ice by your bluelines, past your forwards but in front of your D, in a "cherry picking" position. This effectively breaks the trap.
You guys know nothing about hockey...else you would all be HABs fans ;)
MLF
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
Yah, that's right. That's why they allowed the 2 line pass, to get rid of the neutral zone trap. It also speeds up the game tremendously.
The Wolfman forgot about this..... good call....
Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay
Montreal the Wolfman can stand. Toronto...that's another story.
Any Toronto fans in the hizzouse?
**The Wolfman realizes he needs to be careful here because his Ottawa Senators just got destroyed by the dismal Toronto Maple Leafs**
I take it you also like the new rules? I'm one of the very few that likes them, at least on the New York Ranger forum. I think they open up the game considerably. For about a decade there, it was getting to be like watching paint dry. I still think a larger ice surface is needed, but these new rules have definitely helped.
I also always felt there should be no restraining whatsoever from behind. If your man got by you, well that's tough, you're beaten. You shouldn't be permitted to grab them from behind in any way shape or form. Glad they're finally calling those infractions.
I agree with you 100% JP. I actually stopped watching hockey for about 2 seasons before they announced the rule changes. The game was to slow, to boring to watch.
Since the rule changes have been put into place, the Wolfman hasn't missed one Ottawa Sens game......they are the best after all.... :)
The players just need to get used to the hooking calls and things will be better. You still see the occasional call that looks bad and the players will complain. But as you said, if you are beat and the player has already passed you...your done. Don't hook him in any way or you will get the call.
GO SENS GO!
Toronto's only dismal defensively. They have quite a potent offense. Their goaltending is also suspect, but a portion of that may be the lack of defense in front of them.
Exactly,it was turning into soccer on ice. If I wanted to watch soccer, I would watch it. And when two trapping teams played each other, my God, it was as exciting as watching a chess match. Not that I dislike chess, I don't, but I never thought of it as a spectator sport.
I like the rules, but I wish to heck the refs would call a "hooking" penalty for hooking and not for touching the other guy's jersey, or "interference" when the other player is actually interfered with.
I bleed "blue" Wolfman, and before you became a "diehard Sens fan" I bet your were too...:drink:
Only thing in Ottawa is retirees and politicians...oh and too many lawyers....:D
Oh and JPnyc, just in case your not up on the stat's...fighting (well what they call fighting anyways) is up over last year, the problem is though they are all flyweights and because of the stupid "instigator" rule the heavyweights can't protect the teams star players, guys like Joe Sakic and Mat Sundin or even ***gag*** Alfredosen shouldn't be required to fight off the little pansies who are not afraid anymore because there is no cementhead (Semenko) to come to the rescue...:fpissed:
Get rid of the "instigator" penalty and all these goal mouth scrums would be over as well as the recent trend of running goaltenders, where is Hextall or Billy Smith when you need one...arrrgh I love Toronto and the best game they have played so far was against the Sens, so other then winning the Stanley Cup, I'm happy...hehehe and oh yeah I've been a fan since 64....so loyalty runs deep, and no bandwagon for me....wink wink Wolfman...:drink:
Well the instigator rule predates this last set of rule changes that I was referring to. I'm really talking about the changes since the last lockout. Calling restraining fouls, allowing two line passes, that really did help. The trapezoid rule involving the goalie, that I'm a little less enamored of, but clearly it was also aimed at New Jersey. In fact, I would go so far as to say all the new rules were aimed at New Jersey. They were killing the sport.
Can't argue with you on that one as I agree, I hate NJ and Stevens...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
But the trap helped them win a couple of cups, during those times, hopefully it will never go back to that, but what I find now is that the defence don't know how to hit anymore, or they are making bad hits (from behind) which is a double edged sword because sometimes the guy getting hit, doesn't prepare himself right and bang he's on the deck. I think the defence should be allowed to physically remove opponents from in front of the goalie, if I were playing and I was a goalie, there would be a lot of broken ankles in the league, because the refs no longer protect the goalies and the defence can't clear the front of the net, how many goals have you seen this season where the puck and the goalie were pushed into the net?
I like what's happening, but I don't want my game turning into what the Europeans used to play, all prima donnas, diving here and there and too much stick work, they are the experts at cutting up opponents with the stick work...lots of goals are nice and very "American", but too me a well played hockey game that ends at 0-0 is still a good hockey game, I hate the shootout and I hate the overtime, ties have a place, if not then make the wins more valuable say 3 points for a win and a single point for a tie, that will change the way teams play..;)
First off, the Wolfman was born and raised in a little town called Winnipeg. You wan't to talk Loyality, I was a Jets fan right until the end (WHITE NOISE ALL THE WAY!). Ironically enough, I moved away from WInnipeg to Ottawa the year the Senators joined the NHL. So I had two choices. Start cheering for a startup team that would probably suck for the first couple of years....or cheer to a crappy team to the south of me that would suck eternally. I choose the Sens :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dalek
.....so no bandwagon for me either! :)
It depends. I loved the euro game, but I don't care for stick work on opponents. I love the fact that the game is not just up and down there, and is far more creative and interesting to watch. North American hockey is more based on playing percentages than the euro game is.
What I mean is, take a power play for example. The North American approach is, get some players in front of the goal, pepper the goalie with shots and hope for a rebound or deflection in front.
The euro approach is passing the puck around trying to set up a great shot after maneuvering the goalie out of position. Now this approach does not work as well on the smaller ice surface of the NHL, because obviously it's easier to take away passing lanes if there's less surface area, but it's still inherently more interesting to me.
The hitting is still part of the game, but players and coaches alike are realizing that it's not necessary to put somebody through the boards to take him out of the play, and very often it takes the defender out of the play also, which is clearly undesirable.
You really have my sympathies now Wolfman, I actually liked the Jets and I even liked the Nordiques, only because I loved watching them and the Habs fight to the death....(Dale Hunter what a pest, people think Avery is bad...Lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman1984
I can only hope we don't entirely adopt the European style of play, which ironically enough the Europeans are trying to match the NHL style as it is more exciting, for what it's worth, and as Grapes say's no one goes for a beer or hot dog when a fight breaks out..and I tend to believe that our cousins to the South actually like the rougher style of play, I think the Mid and Northern states have always liked it....their college programs are the best along with the teams on the East Coast...;)
Well, Mr. Cherry is mistaken. I frequently get up to get something to eat or drink during a fight. The game is not going on at that point, and that's what my interest is, the game.
I don't deny that much of the current NHL fan base likes the rough-and-tumble nature of the sport. I also believe it's what has prevented the sport from growing beyond its current fan base, after being part of the American sports landscape for such a long time. It's still a distant fourth behind basketball.
I can honestly say I like the game in spite of those things, not because of them. I started watching in the early 70s, just after expansion, but my favorite era was the 80s. Edmonton was the greatest hockey team I had ever seen, and the most riveting spectator sport experience I have ever had.
lol...at home on the couch...yeah okay, but if you watch it live it's a different experience, and no one leaves, unless it's to use the bathroom and even then a die hard fan may stay...Quote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
It's a pretty good game and most of the Northern States and Eastern States do enjoy it, but where Baseball and Basketball and Football are king, of course it's hard to break into that market, hard to have a tailgate party in temperatures of -20 and 2ft of snow....:D
For the speed and physical contact there is no other sport like it, in football you have the offence and then the defence, in baseball.....well I've seen moss grow faster then some of the pitchers throwing lately, and basketball, well I for one can never understand what it is to like when a game is decided with the last throw, why bother with the other 47 minutes and 57 seconds...:rolleyes:
Put it this way, the game is an emotional roller coaster for both the fans and players and it can happen in a split second..(one of the reasons I've heard why Americans don't like the game is because they can't follow the puck, remember the telecasts where they coloured the puck and made it turn red on a hard shot....ooooohhhh....)
It's being watered down, maybe it for the good of the game South of the border, but right now, if I were able to, I would fold some of the newer franchises and concentrate on the original six and original expansion teams, and right now I can see that the Canadian teams are carrying the league, to me I can believe we can expand in Canada and with the economy growing as it is, say goodbye to the American teams that can't exist.
I bet Hamilton/Winnipeg/Quebec would be able to compete now what with the cap and our strong dollar...
For me I could care less if it makes it in Kansas or Missouri, or Florida (too many teams there now anyways), but there will always be Hockey in Canada...:drink:
I hate the fact that we've lost franchises that I grew up watching, like Winnipeg and the Nordiques. Even Pittsburgh, which at best has an uncertain future at this point, is a franchise I would hate to see moved. They've managed to bring up some of the most amazing talent the game has ever seen, including right now. They deserve to continue.
I'm not referring to further expansion, there are too many teams now, I'm referring to media coverage here in my own hometown. The Rangers are in first place, have won nine of 10, 5 straight, four straight on the road, and the back pages are full of the New York knickerbockers, who couldn't beat an egg with a fork. I can tell you that pisses Rangers fans off to no end.
I would like to see the sport taken more seriously here in the US. I also don't think this unbalanced schedule is helping at all, I think it's making things worse. We keep playing the same teams over and over and over, and that gets boring, rivalry or no. I haven't seen the San Jose Sharks in so long I wasn't even sure they continue to exist. We played Detroit once, in preseason, and it wasn't even televised here.
By the way, speaking of inability to see the puck, my British pal still maintains there IS no puck, and that we're all being duped. I have him watching the games now though, streamed on the web.
First off - Big Devils fan here (Stevens induction was a beautiful site). I bet Lindros was cringing.
Secondly, I love the new rules but, I disagree that the rules were aimed at the Devils specifically. If you want to point fingers, then I suggest looking at Lemaire's system as a huge catalyst for the rule changes. Granted he coached the Devs but, I watched many other teams adapt his system before the new rules took affect. In fact, if you want to get technical about teams playing the trap, how about Scotty Bowman's Canadiens of the 70's?
In fact, I've watched quite a fair share of Eastern Conference teams adapt & play Lemaire's system from '96 all the way up to '03. Off the top of my head I know for a fact that the Flyers, Rangers, Penguins, Islanders, Bruins, Senators, & Leafs were equally guilty of playing the 1-2-2.
I also noticed that a good defense is praised in every other major sport except hockey. Boring it may be but, it was quite a successful system. Am I glad it's gone? yep. As well as it worked, I enjoy the high octane hockey I'm seeing nowadays. I also really like the new system the Devils play under Sutter.
As for killing hockey? I blame the lack of a decent marketing campaign, and that schlep Bettman. If you really think about it, only real hockey fans even know what the "trap" is and while many may complain about it, we'll all still tune in.
But I'm a HUGE fan for 30 yrs and even I was losing interest in the game. At one time I would watch everything from pee wee to college, to any NHL game that was on, and everything in between. By the mid 90s, I started channel surfing during games, and even nodding off occasionally. That style of play for me, was worse than mixing downs and booze, and listening to Gerald Ford speeches at the same time.
Oh, and there is a difference between a 1-2-2 and a NZ trap. With a 1-2-2, which is as old as the hills, there is ONE forechecker deep. With a pure NZ trap, which may be regarded as a FORM of a 1-2-2, there is no deep forchecker. The center tries to herd the puck carrier toward the boards, where he and the winger collapse on him.
Well, I always referenced the trap as a 1-2-2 but let's not get too technical here. The fact is, I love the new rules. The shootouts have caused a lot of debate but, I personally like them.
My biggest deal is with people blaming the Devils for the rule changes and making the sport boring when quite a few other teams adapted and played the same system. One team didn't make hockey boring; It was because so many teams played the same defensive system that it became boring. If sole blame is to be placed on anyone, it's Lemaire.
With that being said, I'm glad the rules have changed. I hope this brings more people to the games and generates interest among the masses. By the way, what's with the age old generalization that hockey fans are toothless rednecks? I have plenty of teefs! :eek:
I know, I love em too. The game BADLY needed these changes. One thing I never see mentioned is, the height of the average player in the 60s, 70s, 80s, was about 5' 9". Now the average player is 6'2". Greater height means greater reach, meanwhile the rink size hasn't changed a lick. No WONDER there's no frickin' room out there.
Compounding this is the change in defensive approach. If you watch old games, you'll notice how much more lax defense was. Nowadays you can barely see the sweater of the team on offense, because they're wearing a defensive player like a 2nd jersey. That wasn't the case until sometime in the 90s. The game is also MUCH faster than it was back in the day.
Hi JPNyc,
Let's do the math huh?
1. With arms outstretched you measure the same as your height from fingertip to fingertip.
2. 5' 9" to 6' "2 is five inches.
3. They have two arms, so divide by two.
EUREKA!........I have it............. just shorten the sticks by 2.5"
:cool::dunce::D
LOL, I would love to see all the missed pucks that would cause. Would be a riot.
Hmmm,
Well, at least the "P" is nowhere near the "F" on a QWERTY keyboard :halo:
Sorry, I forgot........... the game is MUCH faster?
Just set the minimum blade width higher.
Reminds me of my club's "Wappenshaw" at Bisley Camp. 2 in and 7 to count at 600x.... get a "V-Bull" (X-Ring to you guys) and you had to drink a pint of "handicap". Tough tactical decision there.......... "Do I want to win the trophy, or do I want to get pissed for free?"
:drink:
Yes, our games keep having rule changes to make them more attractive to spectators (which is where the £$£$£$ come from isn't it?) or to "even things out", as in Formula-1 automobile racing.
I guess there are technology changes as well. What would the skates and sticks of the 1950's look like compared to those of today?
The solution they really need is a larger ice surface, but owners balk at that because it would mean reduced seating capacity. I don't know why they are so concerned about that because hockey games rarely sell out.
A friend of mine is a very prominent estate planner/banker here in New York City, and he told me when discussing a sports investment syndicate, the only time hockey is mentioned is when going for a laugh. Hockey is a financial disaster from an investment perspective.
geez Wolfman, what happened to the sens? Lost six straight, not playing well in their zone, goaltending gone south, they're unrecognizable.