Printable View
Hi there,
I am having major problems here. I was defraging the c drive and a message came up "run chkdsk first. So I did, and checked only first box.
it then asked to reboot and did it's thing on reboot.
now, it has wiped all network connections, I cannot drag and drop, and I cannot paste anything.
I cannot run ad aware or any other antispyware programs.
What has happened to my computer?
any help would be really appreciated here
Jonny F
wow...I have never had that happen
I always use it with the /r switch (repair)
Maybe start again with the repair switch???
Start>run> chkdsk C: /r
MLF
I have had similar experiences, albeit not the exact same symptoms. Like MLF I always run the repair option on the grounds that I want to know if there is something wrong with the HDD.Quote:
wow...I have never had that happen
I always use it with the /r switch (repair)
Jonny, I would recommend that you assume that the HDD is about to fail. So:
1. Back up all your important files.
2. Run chkdsk with the repair option checked, as MLF suggests.
3. Go to the HDD manufacturer's site and get their diagnostic tool. Do a full scan (deep scan). This is a second opinion, as it won't care if chkdsk has already marked sectors as bad ;)
Otherwise, I use Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Diagnostics, which will work with any EIDE drive. You can get it here:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/Western_Di...ols_d2855.html
Create a bootable CD/Floppy (and remember to go into BIOS setup and change your boot sequence if you need to)
//of topic
Talk about weird, deja vu or whatever? This is the first post with this problem so far this year and I just happen to be looking at a 3.5" floppy with this tool on it as I am typing this! :eek: I must be on a roll............. buy a ticket for tonight's lottery? :D
//
To get back to your question Jonny,
Well, every now and then Winders will get its knickers (y-fronts?) in a twist. The very fact that the chkdsk/scandsk utility exists tells us that.Quote:
What has happened to my computer?
Possibilities include:
1. Failing HDD
2. Failing RAM
3. Failing PSU
4. Failing MoBo
5. Power supply fluctuations
6. EMF/EMP
7. Vibration
8. Inadequate ventilation
9. Hitting the damn thing with an FBS
10. Not shutting down properly
Basically, anything that will cause traumatic or chronic data corruption.
Sorry to have to say this Jonny, but you are describing fundamental problems with the OS. Files that are not "written back" after use............. that suggests hardware damage rather than data corruption to me.
Please keep us informed as to your progress, and PM me if you want telephone support :)
Johnno
IMO, if you have determined the harddrive is going to fail, your best bet is to NOT run chkdsk. You have already decided the hdd is dead, and you need to replace it.
Running such an intense program, in terms of hdd performance and usage - Is a surefire way of killing the drive. Running chkdsk is only good if you are trying to solve a problem, but since the drive needs replacing, there is little point.
If there is data you want to recover, then recover it. Plug it into another computer with a stable OS and copy what you can from it. Hopefully you will get everything :)
At this stage, the hdd is trash and you may want to consider wiping the drive -
http://antionline.com/showthread.php?t=266962
In cases where the bearings have started to loosen and similar issues, i have wrapped up the hdd and whacked it in the freezer for half an hour, then pulled it out and started copying the data across - While its cold it works beautifully.
[DANGER] Please consider condensation effects when cooling hardware [DANGER]
Let us know what you plan to do and how you go :)
CTO
Yes, running chkdsk on a drive that has physical problems will only make things worse.
You recover what data you can, then run a manufacturer's diagnostics test. It all depends what the original cause of the problem was................ you might get lucky but mostly you will probably not :(
If the manufacturer's diagnostic shows no problems then you could try a reformat. Personally I would use something like dban to wipe the drive first.
Most likely... When I have encountered that sort of issue .. the Drive was formatted under FAT32..
it may not be a hardware issue -but it is a good idea to check - SMART analysers are handy for this..
the issue was probably a bad shutdown since the last defrag..
and agree with other comments chkdsk is not so friendly to user data..
I won't add my regular programs.. the list of test progs given is sound..
My feeling from the limited information... is certainly backup your data.. - use a WIn PE based live CD (Winbuilder et al) if your only comfortable with Windows.. to back up your data..
Do a clean install of windows.. BE SURE TO FORMAT THE HDD UNDER NTFS.. restore your programs.. then your data..
You may be able to get away with a repair install.. but the long term issues are not worth the little extra time in the clean install..
If there is information that you have not provided that may indicate a drive failure.. like recent new/unusual grinding and clanging noises.. then replace the HDD by all means..
I am just curious as to what makes you believe the file system has anything to do with the issues described?Quote:
Originally Posted by Und3ertak3r
I am aware of performance issues on small (<4GB) drives and the file system was responsible (FAT32 on small drive = bad) - But i have not heard of a file system causing issues like this, simply due to the type of file system.
Sure, if a file system became corrupt, then all sorts of weird problems would occur, but a corrupt file system is a common problem across FAT/FAT32/NTFS/ext3 whichever.....
I was just curious as to why you would believe that "FAT32" & "NTFS" are the cause of the problem specifically :) Just trying to learn in case it is something i dont know!
CTO
Hi CTO,
Can't say I have heard of anything specifically file system related to cause this problem either. I would say that NTFS is generally considered to be more stable and reliable than FAT 32, so such problems are less likely (unless it is a hardware issue).
Also if you run Win 2000 or later you won't have the 4Gb filesize and 32Gb partition limit that you get with FAT 32.
What makes me say this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CybertecOne
I see it every week.. on domestic PC's.. Or more.. used to see it.. Acer was selling a ton of cheap desktops in this area.. always with FAT32 file system.. and what I read here is a text book example.. IF it is not a hardware failure.. AND it was a simple problem due to Filesystem Database error as the result of a bad shutdown.. AND CHKDSK was let loose.. yes system files WILL be damaged..
AND FAT32 is many times more likely to suffer damage.. and more likely to have CHKDSK remove vital system files...
And please note it is not the File system that causes the Issue.. I certainly am not saying that FAT & NTFS are the fault... rather the type of filesystem increases the vulnerability to this type of problem. The journaling filesystem like NTFS is a lot more rugged than FAT/12/16/32.. There are better out there.. unfortunately, not easily available on many of the MS platforms.
I offer my view, as far too often I see people look at a problem from a single perspective. And while that perspective can offer the correct solution to a users problem, it can and does preclude other users from the solution to similar problems.
Having been involved repairing electronics, and now PC's, for a few years. Fault finding procedure is a skill that I see as surely lacking in the IT field, a number of "Tech's" dive in and offer/proceed on solutions, sometime with the most scant of information.. You do not attempt to remove a virus from a pc without some information about the infection would you?
I have been working with computers for several years and have never seen chkdsk fluck up a system...or drive unless it was ready to fail...usually there are other issues present.
I have seen corrupted installs where chkdsk couldnt fix it...and I have seen drives with bad sectors where chkdsk moved the files and marked the area not for use.....and the system has hummed away for years after.
as always as backup of any system should be performed before running any disc or recovery utilities.
What was the reason for running chkdsk in the first place??
MLF
Ahh ic :cool: I never really considered that 'coping ability' so to speak of the file system. Obviously NTFS is more preferable for all the reasons of storage, accessibility and security - However, in a critical event, i assumed it was just more that could go wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Und3ertak3r
Intrigued
CTO
not to be argumentative.. but just because someone has never seen something is not reason to think it doesn't exist..Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay
I do find the tone of your opening comment more on the confronting side.. but your not one to try to wind someone up .. are you..
Not the File system expert.. there are people who can give you the full goss on the pro's and con's of the various file systems..Quote:
Originally Posted by CybertecOne
with MS some times even the OS does not have enough robustness/intelligence to survive some simple filesystem stuff-ups.. like recognising that the file error is in a system file and restoring a copy from cache.. instead of moving the whole thing off to a bin some where.. in the vain hope the user is able to work out wtf the file is and where it should come from and how to restore a valid working copy.. with a non functioning OS..
just one dll is all it takes to kill XP.. but just hiding a few files in the System32 folder can make it mighty ill with out complete death...
Its not worth it MLF.... walk away.Quote:
not to be argumentative.. but just because someone has never seen something is not reason to think it doesn't exist..
I do find the tone of your opening comment more on the confronting side.. but your not one to try to wind someone up .. are you..
---
IMO, the cause and effect of a file system error is universal across all file systems. What could cause a catastrophic issue on one particular FS, can do the same damage on any other FS.
Therefore, I cannot agree that FAT32 file systems have any effect or contribution to ANY problem caused as described, or any problem i have encountered in my many years in IT.
I therefore pose that the above statement is entirely non-sensical/erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Und3ertak3r
The mere fact that most of the machines in which you have encountered problems have a FAT32 FS is entirely co-incidental, as in my experience the file system of a machine does not play into any equation unless considering data recovery or changes to the existing file system. I honestly cannot think of a time when i thought to myself during diagnosis, "oh, i better check what the FS was" ... "just in case that is what caused the problem"
CTO
who me??? :eek:Quote:
I do find the tone of your opening comment more on the confronting side.. but your not one to try to wind someone up .. are you..
only people that are easily wound... ;)
MLF
]EDIT> excellent article on troubleshooting disk issues with MS oses
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb457122.aspx
Not necessarily. I replaced two harddrives in asQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
many days last week both of which generated errors
when Ghost was run. Until I used "chkdsk /r" (both
times the file system got repaired), there was no
way to ghost the things. So, obviously, chkdsk can
make a HDD better, at least temporarily. But such
a repair is not something you want to count on unless
it's for a recovery.
What IS interesting was both drives were SATA
and chkdsk would not repair the system when run
natively from the installed OS (both XP). When
I booted off a PE disk and ran chkdsk, they were
repaired. That's a first (for me). Something to
bear in as you see more SATA drives.
chkdisk cannot run and repair on the drive while the OS is loaded ...and should ask you if you want to run on a restart so it can lock the drive\files as it tests the integrety of the file system and looks for corrupted files and damaged sectors on the drive.
And depending on the size of the drive and number of files can take a very long time.
If I suspect a drive failing...I usually slave it into another machine and backup the data...then use that machine to run chkdsk on the drive....in a sense using a boot disk.
If a drive is failing you usually will have issues with writing to the disk, slow boot...maybe clicking noises and errors in the event log.
Slaving the drive or using a boot disk to read and copy data puts less stress on the drive as there is minimal writing...
Then when running utilities such as chkdsk may kill the drive ...if it is physically damaged beyond the point of repair. .... else it will mark the damaged area and not use it...move the files to another area and.......... voila....you are up and running again. Now if this was a mission critical machine...I would consider replacing the drive.
But thats just me....and my ever so humble opinion on the matter :)
MLF
Replacing the drive is always the best way to go; new drive, new warranty, less wear and tear etcQuote:
Then when running utilities such as chkdsk may kill the drive ...if it is physically damaged beyond the point of repair. .... else it will mark the damaged area and not use it...move the files to another area and.......... voila....you are up and running again
I just wanted to point out that if it is a logical problem with the sectors (or even physical damage) and chkdsk marks those sectors as bad and moves the data, you wont have any future problems from the same cause.
However, if the physical damage is affecting moving parts (heads, bearings), expect the drive to continue to degrade even after chkdsk has done its work.
CTO
You are absolutely right CTO.....
I just meant that the only time I have seen chkdsk fluck up a drive was one already damaged....and that I have used chkdsk to recover a few machines...that went on humming for a couple of years.
I guess my point would be backup backup backup before doing anything :)
MLF
I'm well aware of how chkdsk works. It's strange, I'd never seen anything like this until last week. Both machines would hang at a certain point after the mandatory reboot and chkdsk started. One machine we left running for hours on end and it just sat at 43% during stage 4 once it got to that point. Then booting to a PE disk, chkdsk would work right thru, albeit slowly, and fixed the file system. Like I said, something to bear in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay
I do mostly field work and some clients can be hesitant about sensitive data, especially acct'ing, being copied over to one of my laptops. So I use bootdisks and usb drives to do backups generally, then run chkdsk in an attempt to prepare the file system for ghosting. Reinstalling from scratch is less profitable from my standpoint and I get less whining if I manage to restore the computer to it's former state.Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay
The bulk of my work is also onsite, however when it comes to sensitive data, company secrets or banking details on a failed hard drive - My clients are not concered with what I am going to do with the information least of all copy it to my computer for recovery.... In fact they would encourage me to do anything i can to recover said information - Perhaps people in Australia trust too much... ?Quote:
I do mostly field work and some clients can be hesitant about sensitive data, especially acct'ing, being copied over to one of my laptops. So I use bootdisks and usb drives to do backups generally, then run chkdsk in an attempt to prepare the file system for ghosting. Reinstalling from scratch is less profitable from my standpoint and I get less whining if I manage to restore the computer to it's former state.
Although, I couldnt imagine being in this field without my clients having trust in my professionalism or skills.
It's pretty much the same here in the States. Most clients are veryQuote:
Originally Posted by CybertecOne
trusting, especially the long-standing ones. OTOH, there's a lot of
control freaks out there. The main reason I prefer to keep a client's
data onsite and off my equipment is I don't want to be responsible
for it offsite. Which I am essentially if I've copied it to my laptop(s).
I just don't think it's a good practice.
That reminds me, I've got to delete an image I copied last week. Chit,
I hate taking data offsite. :(
Haha, Yes. I can imagine many occassions where i have asked for someone NOT to leave me in a room by myself, for the only reason is to remove myself from suspicion in case something goes missing or is stolen.Quote:
The main reason I prefer to keep a client's
data onsite and off my equipment is I don't want to be responsible
for it offsite. Which I am essentially if I've copied it to my laptop(s).
I just don't think it's a good practice.
My reputation is too important to me, and if all it takes is to kindly refuse keys and alarm codes to the premise, or ask to be accompanied in a secure area - then that is much easier than being the "Trusted" person who may have stolen something or interfered in something.
CTO
Interesting.
When it comes to chkdsk, I tend to regard it as a simplistic file system recovery tool.
1. It is not a data recovery tool.
2. It does not "repair" a drive; simply marks sectors as unusable.
3. It requires Windows, and is influenced by the file system in use.
Please also remember that there is more than one version of NTFS ;)
Some of you might remember that I got hold of some cheap OEM Vistas a little while back, and built a couple of machines to try it out. I used old technology parts to see what issues there were.
I discover to my horror that it (full) formatted and loaded onto a 60MB "deathstar" that chkdisk and myself had pronounced dead (I had been drinking, and picked the wrong one up). Chkdsk and manufacturer's tools now think that the drive is just fine, and it has been running for several months.
My suspicions are that Vista uses the latest NTFS an zero fills the drive first ("full" format). I suppose that I might have had a similar result if I had used something like Darik's Boot & Nuke to wipe the drive?
I imagine the future will lead technology away from moving parts, and more into solid state storage.
No fans, no bearings .... no SUDDEN problems..... and when something breaks, it will all be connected circuit boards which you can snap out and replace 1 component of :P
We can dream cant we .... hehe
CTO
That's the beauty of it, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
So, if chkdsk marking a sector unusable and moving the data on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
sector to another is not a drive "repair", what is it? Is a file sytem
recovery ALTOGETHER different than a data recovery?
Case in point, one of the HDD's I was dealing with last week was hanging
on a 1.5 GB outlook.pst file. The computer ran fine until the user would
open Outlook. We were unable to copy the PST or ghost the HDD because
of a read/write error. Outlook opened the PST, albeit it very slowly, and
then it hung on a cyclical redundancy error when going to the Deleted
folder. Obviously there were problems with the drive. Chkdsk marked
the bad sector finally and moved the portion of the outlook.pst file to
another sector. After that, the PST was readable enough to copy and
the drive was ghost-able.
So that's not a data recovery? Or a drive repair? Sheesh, I need to
make things sound more complicated. I could charge more money.
;)
Don't you hate it when windows or linux is unable to recover a FAT32 or NTFS partition but when you decide to reimage the HDD, the image software keeps rebooting. Explain that to a customer, they damn you and swear you're satan himself. Next they call your boss and your boss looking at you like a Jew ready to crucify Jesus again.
Yes you do, it would also help protect your professional credibility, I would have thought. You should never promise that you can do something without being pretty much certain, and discussing the options with the customer.Quote:
So that's not a data recovery? Or a drive repair? Sheesh, I need to
make things sound more complicated. I could charge more money.
Consider these scenarios:
1. Customer formats hard drive.
2. Customer deletes important files by accident.
chkdsk will do absolutely bugger all to recover the data (but I have plenty of tools that will sort the problem;))
3. The drive is deteriorating and suffering physical damage but will still spin.
chkdsk will most likely make matters worse, and destroy more data, assuming that it manages to run at all.
Also, how do you recover data from a drive with a head crash, or with a dead control card?....................errr NOT with chkdsk. You need a spin-up table and a clean room, or at least a (reasonably) clean room with a good electronics engineer to make the HDD work again.
Those scenarios are data recovery.
As for "drive repairs", well that is pretty simple. There is software that will attempt to fix the drive if it has magnetic anomalies and Windows thinks that it is corrupt...........chkdsk won't do that, it will either do nothing or screw up..
Otherwise we are back to a physical repair situation; although I would never trust the drive again.
Chkdsk is a tool designed and intended to repair problems with the Windows file and operating systems. It is certainly not a magic bullet, and should be used with caution. It is for Windows screw ups, not for hardware problems, and will not resolve many Windows OS problems (MBR, Table File etc.?)
LinenOise,
That is what I mean about discussing things with your customer. Just give them a few specialist data recovery companies' numbers........... when they get the quotes they will STFU and ask you to "have a go".:D
Not really..... **** happens heyQuote:
Don't you hate it when windows or linux is unable to recover a FAT32 or NTFS partition but when you decide to reimage the HDD, the image software keeps rebooting. Explain that to a customer, they damn you and swear you're satan himself. Next they call your boss and your boss looking at you like a Jew ready to crucify Jesus again.
CTO
wow..that is almost offensive....Quote:
Next they call your boss and your boss looking at you like a Jew ready to crucify Jesus again.
Thank the gods I dont believe in that all the religous shite....
MLF
Well,
If you can't recover the partition then:
1. You are using the wrong tool, try this:
http://www.partition-recovery.com/
or,
2. Your drive is well screwed, so try this:
http://www.roadkil.net/
"Unstoppable copier"............. available in Windows and Linux versions. Just recover what you can and start again with a new drive........... hell they aren't that expensive are they?.............. you can get 1Tb for around $220 (USD)
The first software is pay for, the second one is free.
What I cannot understand is why you don't set up RAID arrays for these customers, or at least sell them the kit and expertise to make backups?
Sorry, you lost me there mate............. why would you want to reimage a HDD when you cannot sort out the MBR, MFT and partitions? All you will do is copy the crap that you already know doesn't work? :confused:Quote:
but when you decide to reimage the HDD, the image software keeps rebooting.
How did you deduce, from anything in my posts,Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
that I promise to recover data? You're making..
..assumptions. I can't promise to recover data,
nor do I. Same goes for discussing options with
customer. I always discuss the options with a
customer.
What can I say? You don't like chkdsk? I've metQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
with repeated success using it for simpler file recoveries
certainly. I mean, if it works...
As for a dead control card, swap them out, eh? If
a drives far gone, the customer's choice is send it
out to a professional hdd recovery outfit, like Ontrack.
You still didn't answer my question what you would
call what I described in my earlier posts.
More than one way to skin a cat, yes?
In the past, i have used a company here down under called CBL - http://www.cbltech.com.au/
They have excellent service - and there is no reason anyone around the world could not use them, all you pay is the postage. However, im sure there are closer companies specialising in data recovery.
You get a reference number from CBL, then send the drive off. Once they recieve it, they will provide an obligation free fixed quote. Usually the quote comes in around the $2000-$3000AUD mark. Trust me when i say, this is very cheap when weighed against the data lost.
If you do not wish to have the data recovered, they will either destroy the drive, or post it back to you. (From memory CBL covered the return postage - but im sure this in no longer the case :p)
Anyways, check out the link.
CTO
Yes there are some top notch outfits over here in Europe as well. I know that it seems terribly expensive but it is actually a costly service to provide.Quote:
They have excellent service - and there is no reason anyone around the world could not use them, all you pay is the postage. However, im sure there are closer companies specialising in data recovery.
Generally anyone approaching such an outfit will already have purchased decent recovery software and failed, or more likely, they realise that they have a dead controller card or head crash on their hands.
I know a guy who works for a UK data recovery shop and he explained it to me something like this:
1. If possible you will try to ghost the drive or at least recover what data you can.
2. Next you try to repair the drive, if that looks feasible.
3. Finally you need to take the drive apart and recover the data from the individual platters.
Steps #1 and #2 are relatively inexpensive, but for #3 you need a high quality spin up table, ultra sensitive reading heads, specialist software, expensive technicians and a "clean room".
I guess you wouldn't get a decent spin up table for less than $250,000 these days.
I have no problems with chkdsk, so long as it is used in the right circumstances for its intended purpose. It does not recover data for you, but restores the Windows file system to an operational state in certain circumstances. You then use your OS and applications to perform the recovery, or just access your system as before.Quote:
What can I say? You don't like chkdsk? I've met
with repeated success using it for simpler file recoveries
certainly. I mean, if it works...
Yes, I have had some success with that (mostly with "deathstars"), but the main drawback is that there are so many different makes and models that it is hard to find the exact match, and that is what you need, unless you can mess with the firmware.Quote:
As for a dead control card, swap them out, eh?
Sorry about that. Basically I would call it a "restoration of file system integrity, such that the operating system and applications have regained most or all of their functionality".Quote:
You still didn't answer my question what you would
call what I described in my earlier posts.
I know it must sound like I am being pedantic or splitting hairs, but this probably reflects our different working environments and "customer" bases?
I have no problems with my commercial or business customers, as they pay me to look after "that side of things". Where I do have problems is with private customers who have let their kids, friends, and their pet cat mess with the damn thing first.:eek:
Repeatedly running chkdsk on a drive that is failing is not a very good idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
In my experience, there have been several occassions where i have deliverately avoided chkdsk due to its unfathomed ability to make matters a whole lot worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
Using chkdsk, requires an understanding of the problem you are dealing with. Generally i would ask myself a couple of questions before starting.
1) Is there a physical problem, noises etc that would indicate a failing drive. If Yes, do not use chkdsk unless your feeling very lucky
2) Do i know of a similar issue that has a simpler resolution? If Yes, try that first - what harm could it do.
3) Do the problems relate to the file system specifically, or could it be RAM or a Virus? Chkdsk only affects the file system structure/integrity. It does not modify files, it does not understand the data contained within the partition borders. **
Generally speaking, you do not investigate outside the scope of the drive itself. For instance, i would not start wondering if it was the controller that is causing the problems. That is a bridge you dont cross until your brand spanking new drive does the same thing :p
**I find that if i follow my intuition, i almost always get it right - Even in bizarre circumstances. I believe most in the IT field would have an instinct for what the issue is at the time and how to go about it...... I dont think i could survive some of the pressures if i didnt feel like i knew exactly what i was doing and why.
CTO
CTO,
Not only that, It requires an understanding of what the tools you are going to use will actually try to do.Quote:
Using chkdsk, requires an understanding of the problem you are dealing with.
Chkdsk is an intrusive, or active tool. It will run against your live production system and make irreversible changes to its contents.
Others, such as unstoppable copier and the HDD manufacturer's diagnostics are passive and non-intrusive. That is, they don't try to make changes to your production environment. The best ones run outside of the target environment and simply try to read its contents.
My preference is to use the passive, external, tools first to recover the data and attempt to determine if there is a hardware problem with the drive. Then try to repair the production system with other tools like chkdsk, fixmbr, partition recovery and the like, if there does not seem to be a physical HDD problem.
In a commercial environment you have a different approach, as the data are stored on servers along with many of the applications. You just blitz the drive with a mirror of your standard software build and wait to see if the problem happens again.......... if it does, then you replace the drive.
If the environment does not justify this approach, you look to RAID arrays and a strict regime of backups.
Yes, if you suspect a failing drive then grab the data and run a specialist hardware diagnostics application. You don't know how long the drive will continue to function and each time you spin it the situation will probably be getting worse. Chkdsk is of no use to you because it repairs existing environments, and you know you are probably going to have to replace the drive and start afresh anyway.Quote:
In my experience, there have been several occasions where i have deliberately avoided chkdsk due to its unfathomed ability to make matters a whole lot worse.
Exactly! this is a gut feel that mostly comes with experience :DQuote:
I believe most in the IT field would have an instinct for what the issue is at the time and how to go about it......
I meant to say ALL of that nihil... it just slipped my mind at the time :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
CTO