Have a few questions about the OS, not really answered on their forum, and the begroovy forum never did send validation, so looking for answers elsewhere!
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Have a few questions about the OS, not really answered on their forum, and the begroovy forum never did send validation, so looking for answers elsewhere!
Just what I read on Wikipedia a minute ago. What do you want to know? Try Haiku: http://www.haiku-os.org/
I may check it out myself this weekend just out of curiosity. I have an old lappy I need to do something with.
I've never heard of it before either. It does however seem like something worth looking into. From my first look the bash is very similar to unix. And naturally the desktop is going to be somewhat unique, but it doesn't seem like anything too spectacularly different from an OS from the late 90s.
Does anything know about the security aspect of this OS? (other than the obscurity, which isn't really an acceptable answer)
I have BeOS Pro 5 here. I bought the whole thing years ago. Basically I got all of this in one package:
BeOS Pro Edition 5.0 Box (Came with a BeOS installation CD, a BeOS book that is really nice, and some other stuff)
BeOS Bible (HUGE book that has like everything you could imagine about the OS in it).
I'm probably the only person on AO who not only used it but LOVED it. BeOS was special to me, and when I found out a few years ago they went belly up, I was more than sad about it.
I'm not saying I'm the only person here who used it, but I am probably the only one who really liked it a lot.
The design of the OS was smart, and the way it was done was totally awesome. BeOS was made in a manner that not only was everything ran in it's own protected memory, so that if something crashed, all you had to do was refresh that section of memory and keep going, and, not only that, it was designed so that you could either run with JUST the Command Line / Shell, OR you could ONLY use the GUI.
The GUI and Shell it used were made in a way that you only had to use one; I don't mean like in Windows 9X where you could reboot into MS-DOS mode, I mean that everything you did, could either be done by just typing the commands, or, you could do the same thing by clicking on menus in the GUI.
The GUI and Command Line were made in a way where if you didn't want to ever use a Command Line, you didn't have to, and if you didn't want to use the GUI, you could load a Shell and do everything like that too.
It also had a Bash shell built in. And not only did the OS have it's own commands, but it also accepted DOS and Unix too. So if you knew DOS and wanted to work with the command line in BeOS, it worked, you didn't have to re-learn anything!
And if you were a Unix or Linux user, you could type Unix or Linux commands, and it worked too. Again, you didn't have to re-learn anything!
The Capabilities of BeOS when it came to multiprocessor Machines is STILL hard to beat.
The BeOS crew said basically "Why spend top dollar on a Computer with a super fast Processor when you can just buy an older machine with more than one Processor that can go just as fast for way cheaper?" and that's what they did.
The GUI in BeOS was amazing looking. The overall look reminded me of Window Maker / AfterStep, and it's own thing.
The MultiMedia capabilities were also amazing.... MP3 players, Encoders, video tools, everything, all of it installed out of the box without ANY problems.
BeOS also happens to be the ONLY OS I haven't ever gotten to crash. And I've tried.
I had BeOS installed on a POS machine with very few resources, and I'd load up all the demos they had for it that would do 3D, and all kinds of Special FX and stuff to REALLY push your processor, and I could NOT make this thing crash.
To be honest, if I had a Network Card and a machine that was older that it could recognize the hardware of, I'd have it installed RIGHT NOW!
The File System was the first I'd heard of that could handle an entire Petabyte sized file. Most File systems back then that were for PCs, had fairly large, but not SUPER large file size limitations.
The Maximum File Size, of a single file, in BeOS, was a PETABYTE! This is on an OS that was NOT ever meant to be a Server in any way shape or form (The BeOS people recommended Linux for Servers and BeOS as a Desktop system) yet it could handle files a Petabyte in size.
BeOS booted in less than 20 seconds too. And mind you this is on hardware that was like.... Well, just as an example; a 200 MHz CPU was enough to boot in 20 seconds or less.
To Metguru:
The Security.... don't know about Haiku as I've never used it before.... I do plan on grabbing it once I have another machine working and everything, but I just don't have another test machine right now I can let go of.
But for what it's worth; BeOS, the REAL one, was actually pretty good with security.
Also, the look of the desktop was amazing, and I REALLY do wonder why no Window Manager hasn't picked it up in a serious manner considering it was one of the better designs for heavy use / lots of **** open at once.
Oh, by the way; The old AntiOnline Theme, the Yellow color JP did, was actually taken from it. Even the weird Yellow / Squares we used to see here, all looked like BeOS.
Anyway, for whatever it's worth to whoever is looking:
I'd use BeOS on most of my machines if I could. I literally just can't because the oldest machines I have, are either broke or being used as a Server, and I'm not going to even TRY installing something like that on a brand new machine where it won't be able to recognize most of the hardware in it.
That's really all that's stopping me, because even now, I STILL miss BeOS. It was like something special to me, because I saw it one day at BestBuy for sale, and thought "Oh wow cool! An OS I haven't ever heard of, and it's not based on Windows, or Unix, or Linux, or BSD, or Mac OS! This is something totally different all on it's own!" so I bought it.
Once I installed it, I was like WOW! It's to this day something I think they did right in the OS world.
They weren't trying to lie and say it was what you should use on every machine; They were Honest, and said BeOS was NOT a Server OS, and they didn't even recommend that....They would say BeOs is meant to be a Desktop / Workstation OS, and that Linux is better suited for Servers than BeOS.
It came out of the box with tools to actually resize a Windows Partition, and would actually tell YOU how the best method would be to run the system, and even make it's own partitions for you and show you what it was going to do... MAN I miss BeOS....
I'd recommend the original BeOS to anyone... I really and Truly would. It is STILL in my opinion one of the BEST OSs ever done. Only the Unix World has topped it.
I'm trying to figure out if its practical to pursue. The BeOS Haiku site says it will only work on x86 PCs. So far as I know, all current PCs are AMD64 based,which are supposed to run both 32 & 64-bit software. So will Athlon II (x2, x3, x4) or Phenom II (x2,x3, x4) run BeOS Haiku...or any other BeOS version? I'm looking for replacement operating system for XP Pro SP2, and looking into Linux, OS/2, PC-BSD, & BeOS. Linux is easy to find out system requirements about, but the others (especially BeOS), seem to consider such basic info a 'State Secret'!Quote:
Originally Posted by wiskic10_4
security aspect was discussed in the book 'The BeOS Bible', although the book is quite out of date. If you're in USA, you can get it via InterLibrary Loan. While outdated, it has lots of info that is probably still useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by metguru
so will Haiku or any other version (BeOS 4.5, R5;BeOS NG, BlueOS, or Open BeOS) work on Athlon II or Phenom II PCs? If not, whats the most current AMD PCs any BeOS version will work on? The BeOS Bible made me want this OS, and what you've wrote got me wanting it even more!Quote:
Originally Posted by gore
Yea, I brought up the BeOS Bible already, which is written by Scott Hacker. It's amazing. It even has an interview in it...Actually I think it has more than one but I can't remember....I should grab it and read it again, even though I have no machine to run it on right now, and reading it will make me want to.
As for the Processor thing; All new Processors are not AMD64 based. And Haiku should run on just about anything, but don't quote me on that since I haven't had a chance to use it yet.
You can always try it anyway.
However:
If you're replacing Windows XP, don't bother with OS/2.... Being a BOFH, I'm required by law to tell you it sucks and will make Windows seem not so bad. And of course, I have no idea how you were going to not only install it and get it working on an XP machine, but.... You know what? It's quicker to just say "Don't do OS/2" if it worked for that Nazi Reagan, with the just say no crap, maybe it will here too ;)
Anyway, as I said, you can always try Haiku out by just simply booting from it and seeing what happens. I've accidentally put a SUSE 9.x CD into a machine that was 32 bit, and it simply said that I had the 64 bit side of the DVD in the drive, and to flip it over.
So, you can just boot from it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, no biggie, pop it out, and reboot.
As for the other options you have:
Linux will work just fine. You'll of course need to choose what distro to use, which in itself is generally a pain in the ass for a first time user, but I can help there too:
If you go with Linux after all this, try to use one of these:
OpenSUSE / SUSE
Slackware
Debian
Anything else you find is either going to be based on those, or RedHat anyway, and the ones I listed, are the only Linux OSs I'll use anymore.
As for PC-BSD, again, give it a try too. It's free to download, and you can install it and see if you like it anyway. PC-BSD is based heavily on FreeBSD, so really, you're getting a customized KDE Heavy version of FreeBSD, much like with OS X you're getting a customized GUI heavy version of FreeBSD too lol.
I kind of like PC-BSD, even though I've got two FreeBSD machines here now (My Laptop, running FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE, and another workstation running the same thing) and it's great. So basically, using PC-BSD, you shouldn't have any issues with it.
My original list of what OSs I'd recommend people, back in the day, was this:
Slackware - Debian - SUSE - Mandrake
FreeBSD - Solaris
BeOS
I recommended that stuff to people all the time. Mandrake changed their name, and, after a few releases, started to kind of suck, and since BeOS is basically dead because Palm people are idiots, I can't recommend it either, and Oracle is ruining Solaris quite quickly, and well I might add, so I don't recommend it anymore either.
But Slackware, Debian, or SUSE, will work in general just fine. You'll want to configure things of course, but these days that's incredibly simple.
FreeBSD is of course an OS of it's own, and isn't Linux, or based on Linux, it's older than Linux is, and incredibly stable. It also has the Ports collection. So, if you do choose PC-BSD, you'll have quite an OS at your fingertips.
Hope that helps.
Heh, I've got a pretty long post I made with my general opinion on each of the choices you listed as possible replacements, so I won't bore you with a rehash, but, for the most part, I said in my last reply that the best thing to do, really, would be to try them all, and just boot from the CD and see how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varsel
I only own ONE machine here that has a 64 bit Processor, because most of my machines have been around a few years now, and I do just fine. Sometimes, if I find something I'm not sure will work, I simply make the CDs, write on them what it is, and which version, and then I pop them in, and boot. I've had some pretty good luck with stuff like that where I had a problem finding the info I needed like you're saying about BeOS where you can't seem to find the right system requirements, so, this is probably a pretty good idea for you.
This way instead of spending hours on end trying to find the info you want, you can just burn some CDs, and try each one. Pop the CD in, boot from it, and see how it goes. If it works, awesome, if not, you're only out a few cents unless you find a machine that works with them, which can happen.
If I've read what you said correctly, you wanted to basically just figure out which CPU version to use, and from looking on Wiki about the Phenom (I couldn't remember much about it so I had to look) I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II
I've had a long day and I don't want to sound like I'm talking down to you, so if you didn't mean your question in this way, please don't take it the wrong way, I could very well have read it wrong, but, in general, when you're downloading an OS, this is what I do:
I have ONE machine with an Intel Core 2 Duo Processor that is 64 bit. 32 Bit stuff, including OSs, works just fine on it though. But if I want something made for it, I'd grab something like this:
Some_Version_OS-IA64 (or) SomeVersion-i386_64 (Which basically is all the same, and means it's the 64 bit Intel Processor, which, of course, you would probably have no problem using the AMD_64 version too)
On the rest of my machines, I've grabbed things like SomeVersion-i386 and Some_Version-i486 and SomeVersion-i586 and SomeVersion-i686 and, those all work just fine no matter if I'm running on a 32 bit Intel, or 32 bit AMD.
As an example, I have an AMD Athlon XP 2600+ next to me running Slackware, and if I grab the i386 stuff, it works just fine, and, for the most part, Slackware is made as i486, and works just fine.
Anyway I Hope that Helps and answers a few things for you. And if you knew all that already, I'm sorry about that, I kind of passed out and took a nap, so I'm still kind of waking up lol. So, yea, if you knew that stuff, please don't take it wrong, I just miss read something.
Yes, the BeOS Bible had at least four interviews, but I skipped them, so can't say much. Regarding what you said about BeOS ("if I had a Network Card and a machine that was older that it could recognize the hardware of"), this sounds like my concern. So many get hardware first, only to find out it won't handle the software they want, and have to settle for whatever software it will allow. I'm using book 'Buying A Computer For Dummies', which advocates the opposite approach. Since I have no hardware, and going the custom-build route, I can pick the hardware to specifically suit the software, but to do this I first have to know just what will suit the software (system requirements and so on). This was easy for XP Pro & Linux distros-a simple google search like 'Linux Mint 7 system requirements' said it all. Don't seem to work on the obscure OSs thiough. If I wait to get all the hardware in place, then pop in Haiku disk like you advised, then either it will work or it won't...guess its a 50-50 gamble, but I'd like to at least increase the odds in my favor, cause I really want to test out Haiku (or one of the other BeOS versions mentioned on the 'thegreenboard.com' forum).Quote:
Originally Posted by gore
Regarding OS/2, I'd really like to hear more on why you're so opposed to it, as all my research indicates eCS 2.0 is viable OS; if you know something I don't, I'm very interested! As for Linux, I'm pretty much already decided on Linux Mint 7 & PCLinuxOS 2010, but if I end up hating both I may trial Xandros. The obscure operating systems like BeOS, OS/2, Syllable, PC-BSD, etc., is what I really need help with. For example, I was going to get PC-BSD 7, but then someone said to go for version 8, so now I don't know. Then there's the Syllable (www.syllable.org) someone suggested that sounds good. I'd like any help/opinions from you or anyone on these weird OSs, which is what I'm most drawn to.
Well, for the BeOS Hardware, as I said, I've got the same issue, because the version I have, which is the boxed and paid for copy, is REALLY old now, and so even though I don't have a bunch of new hardware, the machines I DO have, are all basically from like at least 5 or more years ago. I've got one machine I'm using as a Server right now which has Slackware Linux on it, and THAT one I actually had BeOS installed on for a long time. I eventually started using it as a server when the video card started to die out on me, so, now, it's only used as an FTP Server and Storage.
The other machine I have from around the same time frame, sadly, isn't working. And because it's so old, it's going to probably be pretty hard to get new hardware for it, other than trying Ebay heh. I'm pretty sure it needs a new Power Supply, new video card, and possibly some other stuff. So I'm not really Happy about it dying on me.
Then, I have one other machine, which is actually around the same age as those, but, it was my Aunt and Uncle's Computer, and the machine basically died out years ago. Now, I can PROBABLY put the HD I had in my old test machine in there, but I don't really know what all is wrong with it yet as I haven't looked much.
My Laptop, my Compaq, and my Medion PC, are all from around the same time frame too... Lol, I ugess I'd go on Computer buying sprees every few years haha. I have like 3 machines from like 2000, and then, I've got the Compaq Presario 6000 which has an AMD Athlon XP 2600+ Processor, at like 2.13 GHz or so, and that one came with XP, but I have Slackware and Mandriva on it right now (I decided last night / early this morning, after being awake for 47 hours, to try Mandriva again to see if the newer version I have here is any better lol).
Then, there is my Medion, which has an Intel Celeron Processor at about 2.40 GHz, and that has the 80 GB HD it came with, and I then installed a 160 GB HD in it, and it too came with XP, and, it's running FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE and nothing else. I'm not dual booting or anything, it just has FreeBSD on it and that's it. The Compaq is the same too, it only has Linux, no Windows there either.
My Laptop also came with Windows XP, but I haven't used Windows on it in a long time. It's currently got FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE on it, and nothing else, as I'm not dual booting that either. It has an Intel Pentium 4 - M Processor at 3.06 GHz in it.
So those are my main machines other than my new one I got for Christmas in 2009, which is an Intel Processor too, and it has a huge drive in it, and is running Windows 7, and Slackware. It's the only machine I have with Windows on it lol.
Now, of all those, the ones that I could install BeOS on, would basically be my Server, but since it's my Server I can't. My test machine is my Mom's old Gateway Essentials. It's a total POS and wasn't even that great when it was purchased lol. It had FreeBSD and Slackware on it, but then it stopped working, and it's hardware, so I can't really fix it right now. I'd totally put BeOS on that though.
For the other stuff you asked, I'll answer in sections to make it easier for you to read instead of being all smashed together lol:
OS/2 -
Mostly it's my personal opinion that makes me not like it. I don't use it, and I know a lot of the history behind it, and I really think had IBM done more to get Microsoft out of there earlier before they just dropped IBM on it's head to go for DOS and Windows, I think it would have probably been WAY better than it turned out.
The system may very well work good for you, but I just personally don't like it for what I do is all. So I won't do a huge technical review of it, since, again, I don't use it and would probably have to research most of it lol.
Anyway, like I said, if you like OS/2 and it works for you, then go for it, don't ever let anyone tell you that you shouldn't use something if it works for you. That's actually important I think; If you find something that does what you want it to do, and works good for you, then anything anyone says really doesn't matter ;)
I think I already went over most of my Opinions on PC-BSD, and how I think it's a great OS based on FreeBSD. So basically, I'd say go for it too. BSD in general works REALLY well.
As for obscure OSs and all that, you might want to look into something like PicoBSD or something like that... Actually, I'll see if I can find the link for you and that way you can look at a couple things which may help you find exactly what you want. I'll post some links here for you, and this way, you can look into everything, and see how it looks, read about it, and then decide if you'd like to give it a shot.
I don't mind doing it and finding this stuff, because really, I collect OSs, and I think OSs in general are really cool, so, I have a LOT of crap here lol. I've still got PC-DOS 6.2 or something like that on Floppy from IBM even though I got my very first Computer ever, in September of 1999, but I find stuff sometimes and grab it when I can.
I also have screen shots of things like Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows Chicago, and other weird things I've found over the years.
OK, I'll describe what I know about some of these if I've used them, but I haven't used all of them, so, if I haven't, I'll let you know I haven't, because some of them I've downloaded, and just haven't been able to install them yet so if I've used it, I can tell you my opinion on it, and if I haven't used it, I can tell you what I do know about it. Some of it I can just link you to and you can check it out to see what you personally think of it, which is the only thing that matters anyway, so, check these out, and, if you see something you do like, look into it, and, if you want to, download it and give it a try :)
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BSD -
GhostBSD -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ghostbsd
This is based on FreeBSD as it says, and from what I've seen, it's awesome. You can't install it yet, but, hey, with how fast development of BSD happens, this could change quick.
PC-BSD -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pcbsd
I know you already probably have a lot of these links since you seem to be interested in it, but I figured I'd give you this link too because it has a LOT of information on it, and some good links to read more about it.
Dragonfly BSD -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...n=dragonflybsd
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Linux -
Unity Linux -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=unity
This looks pretty cool, and it's based on Mandriva, which, for a long time was a great distro. I do like Mandrake and Mandriva, and even though Mandrake is the old stuff, I liked it. It worked pretty well, and now, I'm not so sure. I do have a fresh install now to try out, so I haven't made an opinion yet, but it looks cool so far.
Saline -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=saline
This is based on Debian, which is great, and from what I've read, it looks nice.
Fusion -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fusion
This is based on Fedora and seems to have some really good support for more apps. I was reading up on it not to long ago, and when I read how it seems to have a smart way of adding more apps, and even has the firmware, I was kind of pretty impressed. The site says "adds all the best software that is available for Linux (free, non-free and even some non-open source firmware and applications for better user experience). It is an installable live DVD image that includes multimedia functionality out of the box, with added desktop tweaks for better usability, and additional software. Fusion Linux is 100% compatible with Fedora, including packages from Fedora and RPM Fusion software repositories.".
Legacy -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=legacy
This looks kind of cool too. I like how it has all the extra apps, and yet can work on older hardware too.
E-Live -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=elive
I for sure would look into this one. I'm a HUGE FAN of Enlightenment. So basically anything that lets you try it out, is probably good lol.
Elive, or Enlightenment live CD, is a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution and live CD featuring the Enlightenment window manager. Besides being pre-configured and ready for daily desktop use, it also includes "Elpanel" - a control centre for easy system and desktop administration. Elive is a commercial distribution; while the live CD is available as a free download, those wishing to install it to a hard disk are asked to pay US$15 for an installation module.
PC/OS -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pcos
PC/OS is a user-friendly desktop and server Linux distribution based on Xubuntu. Some of its most interesting features include support for popular browser plugins, addition of packages for multimedia production, content creation and software development, and a BeOS-like desktop theme. PC/OS comes in several editions, including OpenDesktop, OpenWorkstation and WebStation.
Mac Pup -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=macpup
I had to add a link to this one for you; It uses Enlightenment lol.
Linux Console -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...n=linuxconsole
Linux Console is actually pretty cool; I downloaded this like a few months ago and tried it out on my Laptop, and I was actually pretty impressed with it. It's got low system requirements so you don't need a super fast machine, and it's got a nice interface too. I like it.
Pinguy -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pinguy
Pinguy OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution targeted at beginning Linux users. It features numerous user-friendly enhancements, out-of-the-box support for multimedia codecs and browser plugins, a heavily tweaked GNOME user interface with enhanced menus, panels and dockbars, and a careful selection of popular desktop applications for many common computing tasks.
Quirky -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=quirky
Quirky, a sister project of Puppy Linux, is a Linux distribution built with a custom tool called Woof. The underlying infrastructure, such as boot-up and shut-down scripts, setup tools, hardware detection, desktop management, user interface, speed and general ease-of-use are common across all distributions built with Woof, but a specific build will have a different package selection and further customisation (even totally different binary packages). Quirky is developed by the founder of Puppy Linux and Woof to push the envelope a bit further, to explore some new ideas in the underlying infrastructure -- some of which may be radical or odd, hence the name Quirky.
Absolute -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=absolute
This is actually based on Slackware, and I have it here. I installed it on my Laptop and actually liked it. It's a nice Distro. Some of the tools it has, are awesome. "Absolute Linux is a light-weight modification of Slackware Linux. It includes several utilities that make configuration and maintenance easier and it has many common desktop and Internet applications installed and configured with tight integration of menus, applications and MIME types. Absolute Linux uses IceWM and ROX for its window and file managers."
MoonOS -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=moonos
MoonOS is a Live CD, and I think you can install it the machine too, and I actually use this one too. It's REALLY nice! Even if you don't want to install this on your machine, I recommend at least looking at it. It's SO pretty, and has a lot of really nice art work, and the whole design is all around amazing. I was seriously amazed when I first saw it. "moonOS is a complete, Ubuntu-based distribution featuring the LXDE and Enlightenment 17 desktop managers and imaginative, original artwork. A project created and designed by Cambodian artist Chanrithy Thim, moonOS is intended as an operating system for any desktop, laptop or virtual machine."
gOS -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gos
gOS is an easy-to-use, Ubuntu-based distribution designed for less technical computer users. Its main features are the use of Enlightenment as the default desktop and tight integration of various Google products and services into the product.
vector Linux -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=vector
This is another one I wanted to link you to, because it's actually a REALLY nice distro. It's based on Slackware, and it's actually really nice. I've used it a lot over the years, and it's basically made to be fast and work on hardware not many others work on.
Back Track -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=backtrack
This is basically a Security Distro of Linux; It's got a lot of Security tools on it, and it's actually pretty cool too.
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Solaris -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=solaris
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Minix -
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=minix
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Anyway, I know this is a SUPER long post, but I figured this would possibly help you out if you decide to go with BSD or Linux. Hope that helps!