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O.K. folks, now I can call it Windows 8 officially it would seem? well my developer's preview versions just applied update #2671501 and Microsoft are now calling it "Windows 8"
This update changes the expiry date from 11 March 2012 to 15 January 2013! :confused:
I wonder why? particularly as we were expecting a public beta to be released at the back end of February 2012.
Microsoft watchers were predicting the official release in the last quarter of 2012.
The plot thickens :D
Oh thats a bummer ... oh right we are now 2012 :P Its only a year.
:D yeah, what puzzles me is why grant almost a year's extension to a pre-beta, when an official beta is due in a couple of weeks?
:confused:
Hmm not sure, we have already implemented an updated version for the beta (LSP layer technology gone in our AV as W8 doesn't support it) so i'm not sure why??
me is still wondering why W8 is even being rolled out to workstations / laptops anyway
W7 still not overtaken XP, and is a nice OS
me sees W8 going down pan big time
it should have been a mobile device OS only
but what do I know :P
we DO now know that workstations for home users are in decline
as every fecker wants a fondleslab today
so I will wait and see, but here, W7 is staying as OS of choice on workstations
Apparantly, M$ are going to extend Vista & win7 general end of life cycle. So they're going to actually support there OS for longer period of time, even when there newer version/s are out.
Must be finally learning that they cannot just bury an older version to try to get people to pay for there newest released eye candy bling bling OS.
I know i'm still going to keep my XP pro boxen's running until they finally stop supporting it patch wise in 2014.
Still get a little urge to giggle each time the next wave of OS stats get released to see XP has only dropped the tinyest amount % wise. :D
Other then win2000 i still think XP is a darn good OS. as those Apple fools would say. "It just works" :D
Windows 8 will not be a failure, simply because it will ship with new equipment.
Apart from the "metro" touchscreen and sub-laptop element there is really little or no major difference between it and Windows 7, which has proved popular (not really surprising after Vista? :D)
I don't see many wanting to migrate from Win7 but more importantly, I don't see anyone wanting to migrate back to Win7 either. That's a far different situation from Vista.
XP works OK, and is the only Windows solution for old, low end equipment. If my stuff is anything to go by, it is starting to die of natural causes after 10-12 years of use. In that situation you need to replace your kit, and the new stuff will ship with 64bit Win8.
I just rebuild mine, and I see no point in having a 64bit multicore, dual channel DDR3 system with 32bit XP on it. Sure, I have tested 32bit Win8 on a single core 333MHz DDR1 box, and it works perfectly adequately, but I wouldn't think of upgrading to it permanently.
I believe that the current EOL for XP is April 2014, by which time I think a lot more will have died. Judging by the capacitors, I can see two more of mine going that way fairly soon. :eek:
There are plenty of usage stats flying around, but no real details of the hardware platforms. I would not be surprised if a significant proportion of machines running XP aren't ones where the owner chose XP rather than Vista. I have tested Windows 8 64bit on a 2.8GHz single core Sempron and an Athlon II x2 2.8GHz (same processor, I just activated the hidden core) with 800MHz DDR2 RAM. It worked just fine and scored a Windows Experience Index of 4.6 for the Sempron and 5.9 when I converted it to an Athlon. The Athlon itself scored 6.2 with 5.9 being the RAM and HDD values. I put in a PCI-E SATA III adapter card and a Corsair SATA III SSD which took the primary HDD score to 7.35
I have yet to hear if Microsoft are going to offer a "low end" version on coporate licenses, as that could well influence the move from XP.
I have one machine running Windows 2000 to support legacy hardware that won't run on XP or later; but I haven't found anything that will run on XP and not on Windows 8 (or 7 for that matter) apart from the 15 pin gameport.
Presumably to make using the lap/desktop similar to sub-PC devices?Quote:
me is still wondering why W8 is even being rolled out to workstations / laptops anyway
Late last year I replaced my wife's PC and peripherals because what worked on XP failed on Windows 7. The culprit was drivers. There were no updated drivers for the scanner, printer, biometric device and rfid proximity hardware. I tried the XP drivers, but they didn't work.
Well my friend was using some old Dell 1501 and had some serious issues with Windows XP. When typing on the laptop, it will write with a delay. So, we installed W7 and works OK. Well, it freezes sometimes, but at least works, let's say... acceptable. It seems it was something about the SP.
I was not saying that XP has to be kept, although it WILL be kept until hardware falls over, as cost is the biggie here.
UK NHS as an example, is testing Win7, but it is NOT rolling out nationwide as yet, there will be 00's of 000's of installs needed, and MS will be charging full whack on each, and as we are still in the mire, it will not happen overnight any day soon
what I WAS saying is that IMHO :P that 7 hasn't been out that long as a workstation OS to 'justify' the cost of a new OS so soon
Win8 seems to be fairly and squarely aimed at mobile masses, which will account for new desktop style - which, I, for one, like the look of.
but it would still not get me - if I was an employer of ANY sized business - to 'upgrade' to W8
as for drivers, Win7 is covered till 2020
I imagine Win12 will be around by then :D
and this whole sorry mess will continue on a bi-annual basis
until Linux actually wises up, and someone creates a windows experience in a Linux flavour
don't go all Ubuntu on me :)
as it IS a nice n easy install and work with, but it is STILL one HELL of a learning curve for the countless masses out there who 'use' a PC merely to get through the 'working' day, and for whom ANY change, is always going to be follwed by gnashing of dentures and cries of "what do I do now" :eek:
links to other reading on possible reasons for a Win8 fail
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2389437,00.asp
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2011/0...doesnt-matter/
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/y...-failure/18029
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...s-in-windows-8
and one that suggests it WILL work, but based on fondleslabs :?
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-...ns-Why-622388/
within this is THE reason I think this article has it bang on - security - try securing a IPad in a windows domain, and no academic replies here, real world experience only please, 'cos it's feckin tuff to do :p
someone has actually thought about the poor old Sys/Ad :D
Quote:
3. The enterprise loves Windows
It’s easy to get caught up in the rhetoric surrounding the tablet space that says consumers are the only customers that matter. But the reality is, the enterprise is and always has been, a change agent in multiiple markets. And that will undoubtedly happen with tablets when Windows 8 launches. Although some companies might want an iPad, the smart move will be to adopt a Windows 8 slate. The devices will provide the kind of compatibility and usability IT managers looking to maximize productivity are after.
Hmmmm,
@ua549
The onus for providing updated drivers rests with the hardware vendor not the OS provider, particularly when it comes to exotic items like biometrics and rfid.Quote:
Late last year I replaced my wife's PC and peripherals because what worked on XP failed on Windows 7. The culprit was drivers. There were no updated drivers for the scanner, printer, biometric device and rfid proximity hardware. I tried the XP drivers, but they didn't work.
The printer is a slight surprise as the manufacturers usually make their money out of ink, rather than the hardware; so it is in their interests to support older equipment.
I have a scanner that will only run on Windows 2000 Pro or earlier but it is very old...........same thing with a sketch pad.
My HP Laserjet 6L is recognised by Vista, Win7 and Win8, and that printer is getting on for 15 years' old. I didn't even have to go to HP for the drivers :)
I am sure that you tried this, but sometimes a Vista driver will work for 7 as well.
@Anna12:
Yes, 7 & 8 are much more forgiving than Vista, although that laptop is below specification if it is as shipped (in the UK at least). I would guess a 1.8GHz Sempron with 512MB of 533MHz DDR2 RAM.Quote:
Well my friend was using some old Dell 1501 and had some serious issues with Windows XP. When typing on the laptop, it will write with a delay. So, we installed W7 and works OK. Well, it freezes sometimes, but at least works, let's say... acceptable. It seems it was something about the SP.
You might try this:
<Control Panel>
<System>
<Advanced System Settings>
<Performance>
<Settings>
Check the "Adjust for best performance" option.
Click on the "Advanced" tab:
<Virtual memory>
<Change>
Set the virtual memory to 2,000MB if it is lower than that already.
Remember to click OK or Apply as appropriate to have the settings remembered. ;)
When in use remember to close applications once you have finished with them and do not have FireFox running in the background.
@ Foxy~
And you also have to think of hardware costs.
I did hear that there was going to be a "corporate" version of Win 7 that was aimed at low spec machines?
Like yourself (and most of the pundits it would seem) I just cannot see Windows 8 as an upgrade for Windows 7.
As a case in point, my wife uses Windows 7, but the other day used Windows 8 pre-beta. I had logged in so all she saw was the Windows desktop.................she didn't even notice the difference. :)
just to add on virtual memory, MS best practice was to put 1.5x installed RAM size as START value, with 3x installed RAM as END valueQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
however I have seen / read where this can lead to fragmentation of HDD for PC's that are generally left running [corporate workstations etc] and so I have found that giving 2x installed RAM size as START and END value will create a virtual partition at startup, that will help to mitigate fragmentation as PC will have created a FULL non moving partition
for 512 MB of RAM = 1GB / 1024 MB for both start and end value, have also found that if you are using a newer [read more RAM :) ] that the values seem to work best at 3x installed RAM
from physical observation, have seen a PC that user was ready to hurl from nearest window :eek: turn into a smooth[er] running little sweetie, that although never going to be a speed demon, was well able to cope with users daily demands without their standard fare of freezing / crashing several times a day
obviously, it wasn't just the virtual memory settings I tweaked, but in short it was CCleaner run to tidy up users profile. Plus, I would run the CCleaner's registry cleaner too, it just does a 'gentle' sweeping of the worst in there, and so far, after 000's of instances where I have done this, I have had ZERO problems with usability. On PC's with roaming profiles, I would also delete all users not actively using PC that DAY, plus a de-frag if I found it to be necessary.
Yes, when I manually allocate virtual memory I always give a minimum and maximum value of the same amount.
This machine is running Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and has 8GB of installed DDR3 1333MHz RAM. 7676MB is available, and that is what Windows 7 has set virtual memory to.
I have checked Windows 8 Ultimate 32bit with 1.5GB of single channel DDR1 333MHz RAM, and it has set the virtual memory to 1.5GB. The processor is an Athlon XP3000+ single core at 2.17GHz.
I have XP running on a similar processor and on a 1.8GHz, and you really can't tell the difference, so I don't think that it is the Sempron that is the cause.
I don't believe in these fixed ratios that people spout on the internet............. if you have a small amount of RAM you need more virtual memory and vice versa. In this case the Dell has a half of the recommended minimum RAM so I recommend trying setting the virtual memory to a fixed 2GB, which should give you all the benefit available or an out of memory message?
Yo,
The Consumer Preview is now available for download. Here are the links
64bit version
http://iso.esd.microsoft.com/WCPDL/B...it-English.iso
32bit version
http://iso.esd.microsoft.com/WCPDL/B...it-English.iso
Have fun!!
Nice one mate!
Now downloading at 1MBps which is the fastest I can get in copper wire sticksville:D
Yea, downloaded the 32bit version in like 10 mins. The 64bit version wasnt so lucky, Im floating around 800Kb/s on this one
Well, I guess I got lucky as my 32bit download was going at 700MB~800MB
I am running the 64bit version on this machine right now :)
Ever since XP began to make start buttons "round" I've hated them. I always try to make it appear to have that classic 9x/NT themes as possible. They need to FIRE whichever gnome rejects they hired to create these desktop styles.Quote:
which will account for new desktop style
Any tried the customer preview?
I played with it in a VM and i hate it :). Not liking the metro way. I guess i didnt give it much time but I dont see myself changing.
Hmmm,
Got the 64bit version going on an Athlon II x2 @ 2.8GHz and a Bulldozer 4 core (FX4100BE) @ 3.6GHz
Still have to try the 32bit and load the 64bit onto the Phenom II 965BE quad core @ 3.4GHz and the 2.8GHz Sempron 145.
The Phenom performs better than the Bulldozer, despite its higher clockspeed, DDR3/1600 as opposed to 1333MHz RAM and the turbo boost to 3.8GHz. ;)
They have tidied up the fondleslab front end so it doesn't look quite so horrendous, but as it is only one mouse click to get to a traditional desktop I don't really mind it that much.
It now seems to have a default that locks your account after a certain period of inactivity and you have to enter your password to get back in.
The Windows experience Index now goes up to 9.9 rather than the 7.9 with the pre-beta. That does make my test rigs' scores seem a lot more realistic given what hardware is currently available.
It did not make a very good job of preserving my files on the box I tried the "upgrade" install on :(. They are there, but only a couple of games and a .pdf format manual made it to the desktop. I guess it only really does data files rather than applications, but why the two old games.....I guess it thought that they were data like the .pdf?
To my surprise it actually recognised an external USB connected 3.5" floppy as the "A:\" drive.
It has since updated drivers for the ATI/AMD and NVIDIA graphics.
The clean install went so quickly I thought it had failed, the upgrade one took much longer.
As I have said before it is just an enhanced version of Windows 7 as far as end user experience is concerned. I really can't see anyone wanting to make the transition?
but as normal, Win8 will be all that is available in shops for home users, and business will need to downgrade licensr to load their images to it, and eventually, drivers will not work on Win7, will only work on Win8 SP3 :P yadayadayadaQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
XP still business OS of choice, as it still workss, and can still run on new, pretty reasonable hardware, it is never going to be a speed demon, but until the hardware HAS to go to Win8, as by then it WILL be Win8 :) business will still hold to XP
UK NHS where I have done support for over 5 years now, in many trusts, all have XP, they are running SOME Win7, mainly for 'power users' who need their PC to be that little more responsive under a heavy load, but even CEO's get XP imaged to their PC
as for laptops, if it don't work with XP, they can only get it if they make a case for having Dr Dre's beat box audio :eek: on a medical box :D
saying that, it WILL all upgrade, but eventually is the word there, as it is 00's of 000's of workstations, and as NHS can only purchase rom authorised suppliers, the cost for a basic workstaion is close on £700 ......
wheras if they let us loose with a Co credit card, we could go to Ebuyer [UK] and get bare bone set ups for £180, leaving BIG differentials to get peripherals and OS image added
but hey, WTF do I know :P
Hi Foxy,
I am with that sentiment 200%, which is why I have said that it will be a success for that reason alone. However, that is only because nobody will want to upgrade from 7 and, most importantly, downgrade from Windows 8.Quote:
but as normal, Win8 will be all that is available in shops for home users
If we look at Microsoft's two EPIC FAILS this century, they have been Millennium and Vista. I don't know about you, but I have downgraded from ME and Vista dozens of times, I really don't see that happening with Windows 8 vs Windows 7.
To me, these two are somewhat similar to the differences between Windows 98 and Windows 98SE.............. as in "not a lot, but they got it better next time around"
I will stop now because the keyboaqrd batteries ned changing :)
Arrgh! that's better................ I was getting pissed off with constantly going back and editing:D
When it comes to an outfit like the NHS, then we have a different situation, as they should be (?) on a corporate licence....... just overwrite what you get with your image?
OK it has been some 10 years now since I "sullied my hands" with that sort of stuff.
Conversation goes like this:
I want 8,000 of "XYZ"...............what price can you give me?
OK, what else.............well they have Windows NT4 pre-installed................
Yes you pillock, that shows that you did some basic testing............ forget that; as we have a corporate licence, and will immediately overwrite your pre-installed crap. :D
You know that the NHS has THE worst record of IT Procurement in the World?
Hmmmm..................... looks like these rechargeables may not be up to it either? :mad:
Ah! soddit for now............ 24-22 over there was good enough for one day? :D
Windows 8 is and probably will primarily be for mobile and home use. If we follow the trend of OS's used in most business environments today, only the most tried and true OS will prevail. With XP at the end of its life, 7 is the next best candidate and will likey be for the next 6 or 7 years. In my opinion, there is no real reason businesses should be looking to upgrade. 8 will be passed over like vista was and Windows 9 (or what ever they call the next one) will be the next OS of choice in the business environment. Especially with 8's oh so intuitive Metro UI. Unless businesses upgrade to touch friendly devices, it will not catch on. But who really knows, 8 could very well be the next XP. It is pretty lightweight, and with their new secure boot loader, its too early to tell.
Win8's BIGGEST plus is a one size fits all OS
mobile - Check
fondleslab - Check
workstations - Check
laptops - check
you get the picture
once MS actually GET a slab out there
then it will be a damn sight easier to secure in the enterprise than trying to accomodate Apple / Linux etc
Seven OU's to pool them
with one GPO to rule them :eek: :D
and Nihil, NHS have several licenses in action
and cost is always a factor
yes, we image the PC when it arrives
but why buy a pre-installed Win7 PC that has to be imaged with XP, as it has a paper trail to cover the downgrade, so that in time it can be upgraded back to what it started with
feck it
me needs cognac elkgrin:drink:
@chaosclown:
Well, as far as Vista is concerned it was overlooked because of the potential issues of trying to roll it out into a mature (mixed) hardware environment. ;)Quote:
In my opinion, there is no real reason businesses should be looking to upgrade. 8 will be passed over like vista was and Windows 9 (or what ever they call the next one) will be the next OS of choice in the business environment.
Personally, I tried it on a machine that exeeded all the MS published minimum requirements by 100% or better. It ran like a total load of crap and was quite unstable. I have since installed Windows 8 32bit on the same box and it runs just fine, albeit a bit slow. That, BTW is with Ultimate and all eyecandy turned ON..... I had it switched OFF for Vista Home Premium.
It seems to me that this is going to be a matter of timing, as Windows XP support ends in April 2014? Windows 9 or whatever certainly won't be ready and have attained maturity by then, which leaves a choice of Windows 7 or 8.
I would guess that if you were looking to upgrade from XP in the last quarter of 2013 or first quarter of 2014 then you would be looking at Windows 8? Particularly as it should have got to SP1 by then? Any later than that and it just has to be Windows 8.
I have certainly noticed a tendency towards this in the high street, banks, and shopping malls............ basically "customer facing" and EPOS deployments.Quote:
Unless businesses upgrade to touch friendly devices
@Foxy~
To sell it on at a better price when you replace it? You really only get discounts for volume, as the vendors know you will reimage when you get them. :DQuote:
but why buy a pre-installed Win7 PC that has to be imaged with XP, as it has a paper trail to cover the downgrade, so that in time it can be upgraded back to what it started with
Exactly!............. I wonder if there will be a "dumbed down for old hardware" version available on corporate licence?Quote:
and cost is always a factor
Mind you, I have been testing it on technology that is 10 years' old or more so that might not be such an issue except possibly in developing nations.