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Thread: Who Gains?

  1. #1

    Post Who Gains?

    --> Greetings, General Chit-Chat Forum readers, this is what is on my mind:
    --> While any healthy human being finds the Sept 11 attacks to be unspeakeble, so too do I find the use of the resulting emotion to pass dangerous policy changes unspeakable.
    --> Consider these items in the new Senate Terrorist Bill 1510:
    ->An entire 501C3 organization or other organization, including its
    members, can have their assets seized for supporting bodily acts or international causes that the U.S. Secretary of State may deem terrorist activity. Political activities that were legal prior to S.1510 may "RETROACTIVELY" be deemed terrorist activity by U.S. Government. Participants and supporters may be charged with terrorist and other offenses.
    ->S.1510 "RETROACTIVELY" abolishes the "Statue of Limitations" for many past offenses where no one was injured. After passage of S.1510, any past offense that can be broadly alleged to have put someone "at risk" may be used by federal and state prosecutors to charge a citizen with a terrorist act - even 30 years after the Statute of Limitations period had already
    passed. Government will have no difficulty manufacturing evidence to prosecute citizens once Constitutional safeguards against passing Retroactive Laws are abolished after passage of S.1510.
    -->Note: U.S. Government agencies will be able to seize assets of citizens, 501C3 and other organizations and their members WITHOUT EVER DISCLOSING the evidence against their property. Government need only ALLEGE that disclosing such evidence MAY compromise National security and/or an ongoing investigation.
    -->AntiOnline is just the sort of venue that someday mat run afoul of such tyranny, especially with the sort of uneducated attacks on "hackers" going on these days.
    -->If you want to read the entire text of this bill for yourself, go to, to
    the 107th Congress, and Senate Bill 1510.

    -->Remember, when trying to understand events such as these, always ask the RIGHT questions, such as:
    Who Gains? Certainly not "radical Islam", certainly not anyone unlucky enough to wear a turban, certainly not the lawful Americans about to lose vital liberties "in defense of freedom".
    Who gains? Certainly, those who desire such collective population control measures, and those ancillary industries that will be paid to build the necessary infrastructure to enforce all this crap.
    -->Remember, the above bill is only one of many that are currently in the mill.

    -->Are we doomed to repeat history? Are we so ready to follow the leads of those who have made the same mistakes before us? Are we to follow the German mistake of the latter Bismarck years? Or the Russians of the Czarist period? Must we follow the Romans as they did in their trust of the deceitful Crassus, who stole their freedom to protect them from his bogus enemy? Are we gonna swallow this crap? Please, fellow thinkers, Just Say No.

    While not usually an ACLU supporter, I agree with them here:

    -->thought-provoking editorial:

    -->to get an idea of what different groups are thinking, see:,1283,47490,00.html

    --> to learn about the dangerous FISA powers, soon to be expanded to include you and i, see:

    -->for more of an editorial on FISA courts, see:

    -->this is the sort of insane power-grabbing after terror that i am talking about:
    Obey All Orders Without Question...The comfort you\'ve demanded is now mandatory. --Jello Biafra

  2. #2
    I totally agree with what you have to say and I too am troubled by the same loss of civil liberties fears. Obviously we all expected our lives to change to some degree after the terrorist attacks on New York and now with the Anthrax threat ever present.

    But what really worries me is who is going to decide what constitutes terrorist activity? We have already seen an increase in jail terms for so called "hacking". If I crack a friends email account just for a laugh will I then be seen as a terrorist and face life imprisonment? If I send encrypted emails to associates will that be seen as a threat to National Security and therefore all my assets siezed and my phone tapped?

    If things like this do start to happen would we than see more "Timothy Mcveigh" style terrorism from inside The United States where all Federal Buildings are targets? Lets hope not...

    There must be answer to stopping terrorism that doesnt involve the average joe in the street from having no privacy.

    Anyway, briareus, i thank you for your post and like you I too hope that it gets people thinking..............

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    "Better to die young and free rather than old and enslaved." - can't remember where I heard it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Yes, that's pretty bad. We shouldn't have to give up our rights like this, even for terrorism. That's exactly what the terrorists and the Taliban want.

    I don't know the qoute word for word, but Benjamin Franklin once said "He who is willing to give up a little bit of liberty for personal security deserves neither liberty nor security."
    That is a main point behind the founding of this country, and now we're straying away from that. That's very sad... I pity the future generations of this country.

  5. #5

    Exclamation It's larger than the Taliban

    --> It's larger than the Taliban, after all, the sorts of controls put into place to make the would-be controllers take over are taking shape all over the globe, not just the USA. Remember, it takes powerful financial backing, as well as a window of opportunity to get laws passed these days. Those who can most effectively grease the skids often get their initiatives passed. In this case, WHO GAINS may be a question better asked on a supra-national scale. Those who wish to run the World (and for the first time technology may make this feasible) have alot to gain from branding "hackers" as "terrorists". If you were set to spring the whole world as your iron trap, you wouldn't want "terrorist hackers" anywhere close to being able to crack you. Consider this statement from Russian inner-circle Dr. Tatyana Koryagina:

    In her JULY interview, Koryagiuna told Pravda: "The U.S. has been chosen as the object of financial attack because the financial center of the planet is located there. The effect will be maximal. The strike waves of economic crisis will spread over the planet instantly, and will remind us of the blast of a huge nuclear bomb."

    She said this in JULY, and as far as WHO GAINS she remarked:

    Who is behind these strikes? Koryagina claims the U.S. is painting a false picture. She said the operation was not the work of 19 terrorists but a larger group seeking to reshape the world. She claimed a group of extremely powerful private persons, with total assets of about $300 trillion, intends to legalize its power and to become the new world government.

    --> Crazy ranting? Hopefully. But you and I know that our "system" is barely able to keep itself in check. Imagine someone with more than one million times your wealth, all the information and leisure time to study it, and politicians begging at your feet, who comes to the same conclusion? Could such a person get together with like minded individuals and sacrifice thousands to help "re-shape the world"? I for one would like to dismiss it as maniacal ranting, but then, what perfect cover, if such an alliance existed. 'You beleive that? you're nuts!' You get my drift.

    --> Keep your mind open, and remember, if you never ask the right questions, no one ever need give you the right answers.

    For partial text of the Dr's words, see :

    (still trying to find a full text in english from a russian source)
    Obey All Orders Without Question...The comfort you\'ve demanded is now mandatory. --Jello Biafra

  6. #6

    Exclamation Senate Bill 1510

    --> Further steps toward the phasing from the era of the nation-state to the era of the supra-national include this little gem, the Uniting and Strengthening America Act (S. 1510, "USA Act") . It's a really nice little study in radical statism, which is of course the best antidote to radical fundamentalism (or so they would have us believe). For full official text, status, and info about S1510, consult:
    -> (please note the bill was passed WITHOUT AMENDMENT, meaning the current climate is such that they have decided there is no need to even argue these powers!)

    For an alternate view of this bill, consult:

    ---> Political Activists and Demonstrators should Zero in on S.1510. The bill's provisions can be used to eradicate public dissent - - and you!
    -->Make sure you don't miss an understanding of this: An entire 501C3 organization or other organization, including its members, can have their assets seized for supporting bodily acts or international causes that the U.S. Secretary of State MAY deem terrorist activity. Political activities that WERE legal prior to S.1510 may "retroactively" be deemed terrorist activity by U.S. Government.
    --> Are you a terrorist? Next week you might be.
    --> NOW I ASK YOU, who gains from such laws? The people? The government? Neither, it seems to me. Think about it.
    Obey All Orders Without Question...The comfort you\'ve demanded is now mandatory. --Jello Biafra

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