Privacy in a monitored world [Echelon]

[Tedob1]

echelon, carnivore, they all sucks, they did nothing to stop the terrorists! The only thing their good for is keeping track of what private citizens are doing, the everyday folk that live live not knowing their being watched or think its fine.

[thor]

OK ya'll I was in the Navy in the 80's and we could listen to anyone and tell where they were transmitting from, also if we were able to tell if it was a, fake or multi- trans from the same location, once you trans your ass belongs to us....The same goes for the internet.. This was the 80's think what they can do now

Jeeze now I here the black helecopters thank's

[VictorKaum]

These things are pretty scarry,

Maybe I'am just naive when I'am thinking they only can listen, they don't have to?

What about the mess of NSA, FBI, CIA, ... against terror?
THE solution doesn't exist

[thor]

I know I'm going to regret this but it's not just listening it's targeting OTH targeting was what we were doing plus lang. stuff.

[plague-iv]

Most of us know about Echelon etc. but before we know how to secure at least some privacy we need to know what exactly all of these networks are capable of. Echelon is undoubtebly the largest but here are some more:
Rusia - there are two large inteligence agency's but it is doutable they have the ability to operate outside the former soviet union
China - The chinese government have a ministry of security which has developed systems similar to carnivore
There are many other smaller networks, israel, france, the EU even has a draft plan.

So what we need to do is somehow gather information on all of these networks and find thier weeknesses. We allready know that they have access to massive resources, the NSA is americas largest employer of mathematicians, GCHQ (in the UK) INVENTED the electronic computer in WW2. So if anyone has ideas on how to get information maybe you could post them.

[Pooh-Bear]

What we can do for now is try to educate and hang around for someone to defect/leak. What we basically have is late 80's info about the system. (except for the locations of (some of?) the main nodes.
My guess is that when one agency or another comes up with something smarter, information about Echelon will start to leak.
Unless someone is ready to hack into Sugar Crove or maybe Menwith Hill