Early writings in my book.

[Dr Toker]

This is for FUCt....i spoke with him the chat room about a week or so ago. You know who you are.

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Theoreticly speaking, one could assume that all of creation is a giant burst of energy. This is supported by the "Big Bang" theory.Although we have no complete theory of the relevant physics, there are many indications that yield sound experimental results, that time itself did not have much meaning near the Big Bang event. This means that there was no 'time' as we know this concept 'before' the Big Bang. That being the case, the question of what happened before the Big Bang is now a question without any possible physical answer. So it seems as though scientists who demand answers are reverting to the oldest,bestselling book of all time. The Holy Bible.

That once there was nothing, then with a great blast of energy the solar system and its orbits were created.(Gen1.1) All perfectly allgined and perfecly sized to create the gravity,weather, and Tempurature.If things were differently alligned in the universe, even by a fraction of a degree, I belive that choas would abound.

But How could something be created out of nothing. It can't."Nothing is created out of nothing, and nothing is annihilated and goes to nothing; there is only composition and decomposition, and this makes the universe run." Matter can neither be destroyed nor created, only changed. In the quantum world, we see things 'appearing' out of nothing all the time. Scientist and professors referr to this as "The Universe" acting. LOL. All creation screams of his existence.


So something was there before, other wise, the "universe"(God) would not act. In the Beginning there was only God. And Darkness. So he created the stars and placed them in a pattern to give us signs. To show us the obviousness of his existence. To even show us things about ourselves, charactaristics,pro's, cons about our personality. This has been confused by the 'New Age' astronomers as something 'natural', or even unexplainable.Most call this creation, "Zodiak". By saying Natural they rule out the possibility of God. I say, by saying natural they point directly at God.

[celfie]

I have this discussion all too often as I have studied astrophysics for many years. In order to avoid repeating the same old arguments I would just like to raise a point to you. Ultimately, you claim that the fault in modern physics is the lack of any absolute. While this may be true, thanks to recent discoveries involving the stopping of light, the bible presents absolutely no grounds to claim it as an absolute. It is blind faith that provides this absolute, with no grounds whatsoever. So while you are attempting to present a logical argument, you are in fact contradicting yourself by claiming that we cannot blindly follow physic discoveries and yet we can blindly follow stories. As stephen malkmus says, "No more absolutes".

[Mankan]

I think you are wrong. Not only because I'm an agnostic but also because you don't seem to have your facts straight. Before big bang there were matter, but in such immense density and smallness that it exploded.
What brought this matter to its density? There have been theories of black holes sucking up the whole universe and each other, until only one enormous black hole left, that is the start for the big bang. This theory works well because it seems that the universe is bent, so that any black hole will eventually meet. And the density that caused the big bang could've been created by black holes.

You also say that "So it seems as though scientists who demand answers are reverting to the oldest,bestselling book of all time. The Holy Bible.". FIrst of all, who are these scientists?
Second, why the bible? The koran also has a story about the creation of all things, as have all other religions, older than christianity. Also note that the bible is by no means old. It is approximetly 1700 years and based on the Tora, which is about 3000 years older.

I respect your opinion and I must say that your text is very well written, but I see no signs of 'Him' anywhere.

[celfie]

actually mankan, http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci...000/727073.stm

[celfie]

oh and mankan, the origin of humanity in the qu'ran, bible and torah are all based on the same doctrins.

[SarinMage]

existence= 0*0=Infinite

we jsut are. thats the way it is,
creation is most likly such a complex pattern of thought, we cant even conseve it. and to think we can conseve something thats on such a large scale, makes all the more wrong. think about it, if we dont even understand fully how our own mind works, how can we understand how all of what we see was created?

[Negative]

Thanks for the interesting link, celfie.

You are right, SarinMage, but that's not the point here. Either you accept 'the fact that we will never be able to understand the creation of things' (those who do either don't care, or believe in God), or you accept the facts. There's only three options: you don't care, you believe in God, or you believe in the human intelligence.
I believe in the human intelligence, although believing in God would be easier: no more worries about the Big Bang, no more worries about the fabric of the universe: God is your all-in-one solution. I find this insulting for the human brain. The only problem is we're researching something we ourselves belong to.

[celfie]

If i may suggest a book to you negative, check out The Science of God by Dr. Gerald Schroeder. He is interesting because he holds a PhD in earth sciences and nuclear physics and is also a jewish Rabbi. This book discusses direct links between the book of genesis and modern astrophysics theories. It provides exactly what you are claiming to not be possible.

[Dr Toker]

Originally posted here by Mankan
I think you are wrong. Not only because I'm an agnostic but also because you don't seem to have your facts straight. Before big bang there were matter, but in such immense density and smallness that it exploded.
What brought this matter to its density? There have been theories of black holes sucking up the whole universe and each other, until only one enormous black hole left, that is the start for the big bang. This theory works well because it seems that the universe is bent, so that any black hole will eventually meet. And the density that caused the big bang could've been created by black holes.
.

Very interesting statment. However, this matter that was there, this black hole that was there....somthing put that in motion.

Note: If I was telling people to have blind faith, I would not have posted somthing like this. I would have posted telling you that Jesus Died on the cross for your sins....ect.....What I am trying to do is take the scientific 'undetermined' and determine it.
Also the Tora, The Quran, AND The Bible were all derivitive from each other. If you read the first 5 books of each you will notcie the similaritys. They ALL are right in my opion. I belive that all these "gods" are the same. I think, Man created religion. We are screwed up.

I mean what causes a Star to collaps and create a black hole? Where did the matter in the beginning come from? Was there a beginning to our existence? Have we always been here? No? Then Who Was?

My point I guess is this. Where man and his Science fail's, God and his word succeeds.

[Negative]

Originally posted by celfie
If i may suggest a book to you negative, check out The Science of God by Dr. Gerald Schroeder. He is interesting because he holds a PhD in earth sciences and nuclear physics and is also a jewish Rabbi. This book discusses direct links between the book of genesis and modern astrophysics theories. It provides exactly what you are claiming to not be possible.

Thanks for the tip again, celfie.
But... what exactly did I claim to not be possible?