Slavery reparations

[Tedob1]

implicit_lyrics I dont blame you for hiding behind a new account.

Publication Date: 1991
ISBN: 0-517-58221-X

Much has changed since 1989 my friend. Many millions of dollars have been dumped into this city and every other city in this country, for that matter.Do you really think it came from the welfare checks or the 7500 dollar saleries of the population of east saint louis.

It came from all the people in america. Not because of a sense of guilt. You can tell from most of the posts in this thread nobody feels guilty for what others have done. This was done because people care what happens to others. We want things to be right for everyone.

http://www.slfp.com/CNews070501.htm

http://www.slfp.com/052701City.htm

http://www.swi-news.com/E-STLN012301.htm

http://www.eslarp.uiuc.edu/la/LA341-...e/NewEgret.HTM

http://www.eslarp.uiuc.edu/

http://www.siue.edu/ESL/upward_bound/upward_bound.htm

http://www.icche.org/abstracts_02/EIU.htm

I could go on all night listing more sources if you like.

What do say we calulate how much money the gov has spent nation wide on these type of projects, tageting blacks, how much has come out of each and every working persons pocket and compare it to the reparations due. we can work out a payment plan and you can take your time paying back the differance. im not hard to get along with.

I was just being mean in my last statement, but i feel i have a right to. I was brought up in an inner city environment, much like the one discribed in kozol's book only this one was mostly white. i spare you the details. lets just say it got nuked during the war on poverty just to get rid of it, without any plans to rebuild. who do i sue? (like id even think of it) nobody did anything to help us, their are no agencies for poor whites. How dare anybody say "my people" oppressed anyone.

the only color guilty of oppression is green, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner we can all work together to stop it.

How many people of every race, creed and color died in this country, from lack of proper medical treatment because they didn't have the money:

120 days ago?
129?
10?
2?

[pandora]

We see great responses on this thread and we agree with alot of them.

We want to point out another factor to consider besides the

black africans rounded up slaves. black africans put those same "brothers" on the boat in shackles and treated them like animals. black africans sold those same "brothers" to white men when they arrived in MANY places. america was not the only place that had slaves. and not all slaves were black.

qwerty_smith

Consider this excerpt taken out of the American History text: America, Tindall/Shi Pg72

Slavery, long a dying institution in Europe, evolved in the Chesapeake after 1619, when a Dutch vessel dropped off twenty Africans in Jamestown.

Our opinion is that the American with African descendant culture should cease their protests and affirmative action cases against the grandchildren and now the great grandchildren of the profanation that was done to their ancestry in the name of lazyness for fat colonial land owners.

As you see, America no longer wallows in the filth of subjegation just as England no longer holds Bondsmen to work their farms.

As it is anyway, Africans have subjegated rival tribes in their homeland just as the American Indian subjegated rival indian tribes, though the slaves tended to get adopted into the indian tribe later.

We consider this a dry and overly stale subject that the American African overtax utterly.

[antihaxor]

Originally posted here by Tedob1

. You can tell from most of the posts in this thread nobody feels guilty for what others have done. This was done because people care what happens to others. We want things to be right for everyone.

I think that about sums up where we are all coming from. My prior posts in this thread could have very easily been misunderstood. There are many historical examples of injustice. African americans do not have a monopoly on suffering. That was the point I was trying to bring out.
Thier continuous whining really makes me ill,just as a whining child would. I don't hate the said child when they act thus........I just ignore and then REPROVE them.

[preacherman481]

Hi,
I just wonder which government would be responsible for making an apology and reparations? The Confederate Government, which no longer exists is the one that represented the slaveowners. The present Federal government is the one that was fighting to (among other things), free the slaves. So it seems the real apology and reparations would have to come from a government that no longer exists.

[implicit_lyrics]

Originally posted here by Tedob1
Nth Man the companies that exploited the black people are still exploiting us all, we shouldn't be devided on this. Its omly getting worse and seperating the common people into factions only gives them strength.

Its never really been the whites against the blacks, its really been the rich against the poor and any way they can keep someone down has allways been a gain to them. If they can keep a group un-educated and at odds with others so they can't get the big picture, so much the better.

The poor white, prior to the beginning of the 20th century, was forced to work double shifts plus, in inhuman conditions, at a wage that couldnt pay the rent for the rooms they had to rent from the company they worked for. They were forced to buy food from the company store. they were kept in debt so they couldn't leave. In 1911+- their were riots in the streets so choldren under 16 wern't forced to work more than 16 hours a day. people, white people were being oppressed. its not a race thing its a power thing. Those who have, want more, and they don't care who they have to hurt to get it. the more they can devide us, the less the truth is known.

yes, money begets slavery
again, amazon.com excerpts:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...=2#reader-link

strike by jeremy brecher
a partial history of strikes and the sentiments surrounding the strikers
there were many instances where white strikers resisted becoming a union with the black strikers even though they were striking for the same demands
striking against business is one aspect of it
striking for race relations is another aspect of it
striking for education is another aspect of it
striking for the incestual relationship between military and business is another aspect of it
striking for the relations people have between each other is another aspect of it
striking for the relation between people and land is another aspect

"they" divide us, but we r they as well
there r many aspects for which to divide ourselves, and u may prefer to value the relationship between business and people moreso than the relationship between people and the land, while others dont share that sentiment and u may not share theirs

Originally posted here by The Old Man
Well here's how i see it: My ancestors did not own, manage, or know any slaves, nor did they benefit in any way from those who may have. I do not own stock in any pre-civil war company nor do i benefit from one nor can i buy *anything* at a lower price than anybody else can. I do not have any $$ coming from any company who even existed before the Civil War but i do have some ancestors who fought and either died or were wounded grossly fighting for the North, and got exactly diddly for their efforts and wounds, limping through the rest of their painful lives trying to make a living for their families. I don't owe anybody anything nor do i owe any of thier ancestors anything, period. I work my a$$ off everyday, come home with sweat-rivulets washing little ditches down the dirt on my face, and i don't ask anybody to pay me for what my ancestors lost fighting for the cause of freedom for this country in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWI, WW2, and my own loss of civilian time and personal education and progress during Viet Nam. If my Congressmen or Senators vote any of my tax money for "reparations" past what they already spend on social programs for the disadvantaged of every possible description, he's gonna know he ain't got my vote next time around, and he can take my name off his mailing list. That's the way I see it, Bubba.

if reperations involved me i would b very upset if someone paid me off 4 the past
hush money
money is the worst apology u can give someone
yet the common thread in all these posts is how everyone is upset over the thought of losing money
if reperations didnt involve the rumor of money i doubt thered b a single post in this thread
interesting value system
if y'all were concerned about money so much post to the thread regarding the avant-garde accounting techniques of businesses and government such as enron, worldcomm, martha stewart, arthur andersen, dick cheney, jean chretien, george bush, ronald wilson reagan (666), etc and those r the names u probably can recognize in a police line-up
goto:
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/200...omo/index.html

Originally posted here by allenb1963
Whats really cool is what you would see if you looked back along the generational lines of my family. There's an American Indian back there, along with a WWI vet, a Revolutionary War soldier, even a UNION soldier. So lets add this up...one of my ancestors got screwed same as you, one fought to help birth this country, one fought to free YOUR ancestors, and one fought to defend the freedoms of this and several other countries. Now would you care to enlighten me as to how I OWE YOU forty acres and a mule and just exactly what it is I'm guilty of?

reperations doesnt necessarily refer to our individual actions of the present
it isnt about how YOU or I owe any one anything
it is about the actions of the past and how they relate to the present
we can all puppet the words "everyone is equal" but we havent elaborated on the word "equality" in order to lessen the confusion as to what we r referring to
it can b one thing to "free a slave" and then send them on their way without land or property or the knowledge required for survival and self-sustenance
and if u look at it, none of those attributes i just listed have really yet to b offered in a reperational sense

Originally posted here by JP

Uhm, returns on that type of investment also include your right to live in this country without having to fear additional radical Muslim fundamentalist groups obtaining nuclear capabilities and blowing the **** out of you and everyone within a several mile radius of you.

uhm, not quite as fear inducing as the radical american fundamentalist groups obtaining nuclear capabilities and blowing the **** out of everyone within a several mile radius

Originally posted here by g0t r00t

And another thing, to those who think that everything is equal now, you really need to wake up. I can tell you from experience, that I have to work twice as hard as a white man to get the same things. And it's not just African-Americans, it's women, hispanics and other minorities. My point is that, some people think that when African-Americans complain about unfair treatment, they are just being lazy. While that might be true with some people, don't hold all of us to that standard. A lot of us are being unfairly treated.

white males have a unique superpower that allows them the ability to exonerate themselves
ask any non white males to testify this

Originally posted here by DarkGuardian
And I think many people don't understand the full issue. Yes, an apology is owed, and I'll be the first to make it. I have no idea if my family owned slaves, but I don't think so. And the American Government should apologize. I mean, how hard is it?

very hard apparently
http://www.commondreams.org/views/112500-102.htm

[implicit_lyrics]

Originally posted here by Rev Jazzman


We have a black history month, but I have been threatened with a school suspention for even suggesting a white history month. Go Figure!

because the other eleven months celebrate white history
you were proposing a tautology

[implicit_lyrics]

Originally posted here by fourdc
Ok. The way I see this is:

The US government:

who did not capture slaves (other African tribes did)
who did not transport slaves ( private companies mostly from Europe did)
who did not own slaves (private individuals did)
who outlawed the practice and had a civil war over it
now has to pay reparations over it?

the practice of slave trade was embraced b4 it was outlawed
segregation was embraced up until 50 years ago b4 twas outlawed
the president and members of government kept slaves
didnt thomas jefferson have slaves? didnt he have children begotten by one of his female slaves? i cant quite recall the facts....

Trace the companies and individuals responsible for your plight, go after them.
Otherwise, it's deep pocket legislation, kinda like suing fast food restaraunts for supersizing your lunch.

the companies from way back might not even exist any more, what 2 do in that scenario?
the ties between business and giovernment are tight
look at enron and bush/cheney receiving advice for the government's energy policy
look at cheney and halliburton
go here for that one:
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/200...omo/index.html
look at shell/nigeria

[fourdc]

Geez,

Maybe I should sue the United Kingdom because they kicked my family and other French people out of the Maritime provinces of Canada in the 1800s. Maybe I should sue England because a lot of my relatives died in battles for Scottish independence.

At what point do you say that was then, this is now and just move on.

I can't figure out why my tax dollars are going to reparations, my ancestors didn't enslave or profit from slaving. Being a white male, I'm not allowed to blame anyone for my woes, nor do I. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start moving to your goal.

[Tedob1]

implicit_lyrics:

You speak as if “human rights” are a god given gift since the first man walked the earth.

They are not.

You say look for people to blame because your grandfather or great-grandfather didn’t have something that the rest of the world had. The rest of the world never had what you speak of.

It didn’t exist until today.

Ive heard it said that ancient Greece was the high point of civilization. Why because the allowed for new ideas or they accepted homosexuality, but even there they didn’t embrace Human Rights. They thought is just the way of the world to own slaves or make women subservient. Too them it was just the way it was meant to be. The constitution of the united states says that all men are created equal. Human Rights goes far beyond that and says that every human being has rights and shall keep them.

It never existed before. It is not a god given right. Its been taken and claimed by human beings in our life time. It really is a brand new concept still in its infancy. There’s no promise it will survive to maturity. It must be allowed to grow. It must be nurtured and protected. We all must work to make it happen.

Get your head out of history’s ass, and join the 21st century.

[zepherin]

First off any slave familys brought to this country before July 4 1785, not our problem. Take it up with England. Secondly how long is long enough how longe before it just becomes a part of history and we just say look it happend it sucked but we've moved past it. The jews have been placated for years, and they were slaves to Egypt, where's there reperations? A stone is a lot heavier than cotton. And almost every person here starts there phrase with I'm not racist, bullshit everyone has a predudice. And if you say you don't i'm calling you a liar. Whether it be "I don't like to sit next to old people" or "kids are ruining the area" or "Move it fatty" or "I don't like gays." 1 predudice shouldn't be held any higher or lower than another one.