The dog ate my WMDs

[Worm Wood]

Originally posted here by bballad


Yes all of that should be in the public domain if known by the government (guidance systems probably fall under some IP rights of the corp. who developed them) While they are at it the government needs to tell the public about the Chemical and Biological weapons factories we maintain, the dictators we keep in power (including Hessian until 1990...So yes all of those atrocities we hear about him committing happened with our governments approval), all of the third world nations we are trying to undermine and keep down. A democracy is supposed to be by and for the people, as soon as information is with held from the people we leave the realm of democracy and start down the slope towards a dictatorial fascism.

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. " -Thomas Jefferson.


As for this war being good/justified lets put it to the show on the other foot test. For all of the conservatives out there, if president Clinton went to war with Iraq for the reasons the bush camp has pushed, and then it turned out that he had lied about our WMD’s being in Iraq/the threat to our country what would you say?

I would bet most of you would be hollering for Clintons impeachment for “lying to the country”.

without a doubt the dumbest thing i have heard in a long time.

as for clinton. i recall bush spending several months trying to convince ppl of why this war is neccasary, stating case after case as to why. i recall clinton just going off and bombing someone whenever a new twist in the monica case came up.

[blade1337]

The problem with trying to argue with you ppl is that no matter what the U.S. does, you will critisize and think well I could do better, (HEY MAN LETS HAVE PEACE MAN) << looser, why should you have peace? what makes you deserve peace? untill everybody has peace nobody ever really will. "what about north korea" I here ppl say untill it drives me almost insane enough to kill them, if america does attack north korea, those exact same ppl will be the ones that say leave them alone. why send our troops over? well you tell me why they joined the ARMY or NAVY or WHATEVER. simple if they dont want to go to war then dont join the bloody thing. they are not paid to have opinions, they are paid to do whatever they are told. If they want opinions they will speak to a anylist.
I remember growing up not even knowing what a muslim was, I wish I never did!! I am going insane, I want to kill them all, they want to kill me, I am blind with hate! I hate so much that it makes, words cant describe what it makes me. I know my thoughts are not normal but what is? maybe I will get help soon because I am not dumb and I know when I need it.

If I can hate so much and others even more, then there is defently something wrong with this world! instead of critisizing why not use that efforts to come up with a better idea, untill I come up with a better solution, I like the idea of kill the bad ppl!
Maybe I should be the next!

There is so much I could say, just cant

[bballad]

Originally posted here by Worm Wood



without a doubt the dumbest thing i have heard in a long time.

as for clinton. i recall bush spending several months trying to convince ppl of why this war is neccasary, stating case after case as to why. i recall clinton just going off and bombing someone whenever a new twist in the monica case came up.

Actualy with Clinton congress basicly demanded that we go into bosnia (them and NATO forceing our allience) we where basicly forced in there without a choice. With Somalia he didn't want to go in but again public opinion was for the war and at least he didn't go agenst the will of the people (he did leave the Somalia campaing to a group of inept generals who put otgether the most inane war plan I had ever seen but thats a difrent issue.). bush on the other hand lied to the public to drive up public sentament for his war in iraq.

Was Husain a very bad man? yes but remember the group that took him out of power was made up of mostly the same guys as those that put him in power in the first place.

[nebulus200]

Was Husain a very bad man? yes but remember the group that took him out of power was made up of mostly the same guys as those that put him in power in the first place.

Nope: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/cr...acy/216328.stm

The path to power

The Iraqi president was born in a village just outside Takrit in April 1937. In his teenage years, Saddam immersed himself in the anti-British and anti-Western atmosphere of the day. At college in Baghdad he joined the Baath party and in 1956 he took part in an abortive coup attempt.

After the overthrow of the monarchy two years later Saddam connived in a plot to kill the prime minister, Abdel-Karim Qassem. But the conspiracy was discovered, and Saddam fled the country.

In 1963, with the Baath party in control in Baghdad, Saddam Hussein returned home and began jostling for a position of influence. During this period he married his cousin Sajida. They later had two sons and three daughters.

But within months, the Baath party had been overthrown and Saddam was jailed, remaining there until the party returned to power in a coup in July 1968. Showing ruthless determination that was to become a hallmark of his leadership, Saddam gained a position on the ruling Revolutionary Command Council.

For years he was the power behind the ailing figure of the president, Ahmed Hassan Bakr. In 1979, Saddam achieved his ambition of becoming head of state. The new president started as he intended to go on - putting to death dozens of his rivals.

Hmmm...I am not seeing the US, Britain, Australia, or any other of the coalition members listed here...

Actualy with Clinton congress basicly demanded that we go into bosnia (them and NATO forceing our allience) we where basicly forced in there without a choice.

wrong and wrong and wrong again...
The congress was Republican at the time and opposed Clinton's plan to intervene; however, the did bow to pressure over the issue of human rights...

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/issue...nsas-16.6.html
Title: GOP gives Clinton's Bosnia plan grudging support

Useful index on stores at the time at USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/b...95/nbnov95.htm
Title: # Republicans split on plan to send troops - Nov. 29, 1995
Title: # Still to be won over: Congress and the public - Nov. 22, 1995
Title: # Gore pushes mission, sets 1-year time frame - Nov. 24, 1995
Title: # Clinton's Bosnia mission clear - Nov. 27, 1995
Title: # Clinton sells Bosnia troop plan Monday night - Nov. 27, 1995

bush on the other hand lied to the public to drive up public sentament for his war in iraq.

They have yet to even investigate the matter yet (Congress) and you are already handing down verdicts...quite the impressively open mind there.

And while I am at it, you also might want to look up other interesting events at the time Clinton was in office...specifically look for Jimmy Carter's envoy to North Korea and the 'treaty' they agreed to. You know the one where we gave N. Korea all kinds of economic and humanitarian aide for them supposidly ending their nuclear program...you know the one where the clinton administration was advised by intelligence that the N. Koreans still had an active program...you know the one where they are NOW threatening to turn the US 'into a sea of fire'...

Or perhaps you may want to look into the deals with Loral, missle technology, and China...who is N. Korea's only 'ally'? China...wow, quite the shock that five years later N. Korea now has missles capable of hitting the US...wonder how that happened?

If you are going to spout of bballad, at least have your facts right...

/nebulus

[Worm Wood]

Originally posted here by bballad


Actualy with Clinton congress basicly demanded that we go into bosnia (them and NATO forceing our allience) we where basicly forced in there without a choice. With Somalia he didn't want to go in but again public opinion was for the war and at least he didn't go agenst the will of the people (he did leave the Somalia campaing to a group of inept generals who put otgether the most inane war plan I had ever seen but thats a difrent issue.). bush on the other hand lied to the public to drive up public sentament for his war in iraq.

Was Husain a very bad man? yes but remember the group that took him out of power was made up of mostly the same guys as those that put him in power in the first place.

as some one else ahst stated that is not quite true, and not what i was referrign to.how many missiles did we throw at saddam, sudan, and the balkans? and only whenever his trial started going badly.

[bballad]

I love how you gloss over the entire Iran, Iraq war. Or the fact that the US assested with the Coup that the Baath party initiated in the 70's. He was The CIA's (and there for Bush seniors) boy in the 70's and 80's. Hell he asked Bushes permission to invade Kuwait (which we gave him then lied about)

[Worm Wood]

we gave permission? i assume u have some proof of this? and the rest of your post, has nothing to do with what im talking about, or if it does i cant place it.

[bballad]

He asked the then ambassador of the US in Iraq what the US response would be if they had to enforce their "rights" in Kuwait. The ambassador said that we would consider it a regional issue and it was US policy not to deal with regional issues...this was a internationally televised interview.

Now to get this back to what the point of the thread was. When Sadamm was committing the worst of his atrocities (killing the Olympic team, gassing the Kurds, ect.) we where his strong allies, infact a number of people in power now where in power then and knew exactly what he was doing. The 80's were when we should have been stopping him not 2000's after he was defanged (besides if we are out to free people from tyranny why are we doing nothing about the Congo?). In the 80's he was a military power that we where propping up and maintaining, in 2000's he was nothing, no WMD's and no way to deliver them. No air force and no army to speak of.

So lets look at reasons for this war. WMD's well all signs are pointing at the fact that their where none (those mobile labs where built by a British firm to produce hydrogen balloons for artillery spotting). To save the "people" of Iraq, this administration has shown that it doesn’t care about the poor of this country why would it care about the poor of Iraq? Besides if it was to save the people shouldn't we be going into Congo, Somalia, China, N. Korea ect? So what dose that leave us with...humm Halliburton got a lot of very lucrative contracts and oil reserves (after bush failed to deliver the Alaskan felids to them). Remember folks when dealing with Neoconservitives fallow the money it will lead you to the truth.

[Worm Wood]

u simply cant stick to a point can you?

[FrameWork]

Alright Negative, the rnc and i usually don't resort to these measures, but you are proving to be a tough resistor.

Just listen to the loop on this page for atleast an hour a day, and you will feel better about the foriegn policy of the Bush administration in no time, i promise.

George W. Bush

Only kidding...

Just think how scary it would be if someone really did try and force you to support someone you did'nt want to. Just a thought.

The reason i posted this, is sometimes it seems this is how many nations are viewing our President and Nation, and trust me, it's just not so.

Our record as a nation is very clear, we don't want your land, we don't want to own you, we don't want your possessions, all we want is justice. If the nations of the world are going to be complacent and not do anything about terror, you leave this mighty nation no choice but to go after those who engage in it.