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Thread: Understanding the future security of Windows SP2

  1. #61
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    No, I said

    "how about Windows 2003 v AIX, Solaris, AS400, Tru64, etc"
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

  2. #62
    Ah, I thought we were discussing Linux Severs. Windows is a ways away from Solaris, etc, but it is on par with Linux based Servers, which according to netfind is the largest server distro being used. When Linux/BSD get up to par with Solaris and Tru64, then and only then can we expect Windows to do the same.

    Wouldn't you agree? It isn't fair to compare Linux or Windows to distro's that have been out longer than some of the people on this community have been alive. < obligatoryjoke > But I would assume the pricing is about the same for a RedHat enterprise licence, a Windows 2003 one, and a Solaris one. < /obligatoryjoke >

  3. #63
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    Shouldn`t Windows be compared to all the Server Operating systems out there? afterall isn`t that what its competing with? Or if not, isn`t that what it should be competing with? Then perhaps MS would add more improvements to it (in order to allow it compete) and thus we end up with a more robust OS.

    And Windows is 20 years old now (Orginally announced in 1983 I believe) which is probably also older then a lot of the folks on here...and Sun produced their first OS years before that ... in 1982. So I think a comparison is due...
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

  4. #64
    No I don't think it should be compared. Windows is not competing against Solaris or other similar OS releases, they are competeing with Linux.

    Look, I can see where this is going, so I'm only going to say this once:

    I know you are a linux zealot, and hate windows. I know you expect windows to live up to every OS around. I know you could go on and on about how Windows doesn't do what you need it to. Here is my responce to this, and here is where it ends:

    Stop being a hater, and learn to respect both. Not just for what Windows has done to the PC world, but because there is not a single thing any OS can do that every other OS can not do. If you want to compare and rant about how Windows isn't living up to Solaris, point fingers at Mac, at Linux, and other distros as well. Don't be onsided, and recognize that certain Companies(communities) are focused on other parts of an OS more than others. This is a Good Thing©. And finally, if you took the time to learn Windows, you wouldn't complain about it. Why? Because never once have I heard a complaint from a windows admin when they knew what they were doing. Sure, tons of complaints are given by other admis, but when you look at them, they never actually understood the OS inside and out. Windows can do everything else Solaris can do, without a doubt. Preformance will vary, but capability is there.

    This is why we have multiple linux versions. Some want more focus on security, others want more focus on desktop usage. Calling Windows not robust simply states that you have not taken the dive to learn it as well as your current and most used OS. You would say the same thing to me if I said Solaris and Linux were not a robust OS : "Why not try learning it before claiming such dumb accusations". You see something not-robust. I have learned it to the point of it being beyond robust.

    That's the end of my rant. You won't budge and learn Windows long enough to know how it scales up to other OSes, and I won't budge from respecting each OS equally because I like to learn them. This conversation will go no where, and it needs to be stopped before it gets waaaayy out of hand.

  5. #65
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    Ok, now in response to your little windows rant.. I am not a Windows hater at all, in fact I have used Windows in one form or another since 3.1, and believe that I do know it very well, having been involved in conversations with MS during the development of the two last versions of Windows and conducting testing of it, so spare me the Linux v Windows hater piece, I really do not have the time to hate any of them, I need them to do what I want them to do, isn`t that how it is meant to be?

    I am a user who wants to see Operating systems perform well, who wants to have them do what he wants and not have to worry about them (to this end I have used Windows, Linux, Solaris, BSD, AIX, AS400, HP-UX etc...) so you need to not make this into a Linux v Windows arguement (which is what you seem to be doing), that is not what this is about, this about Server operating systems and what they need to do. I do take some offence at your patronizing tone, and especially at the Linux Zealot piece, you yourself would appear to then be a Windows Zealot.

    I mean seriously, I need to learn Windows long enought to know how it scales up?, well 10 years, 50 odd global installations and troubleshooting engagements, an exchange network of approx 2000 servers, one of the first Windows SAN implementations, developing Windows training courses, I think allows me to make a qualified opinion on Windows, and if not then I would like to know what would?

    Oh, and sure, lets talk about Mac, Linux etc....whatever you would like to discuss, although I fear that your wealth of knowledge on the subjects will undoubtedly lead you to the correct conclusions regardless, which will no doubt be that yes they are all good and bad and yes we should respect them all, well, no s##t.

    and now I`m done with this.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

  6. #66
    I am not a Windows hater at all, in fact I have used Windows
    Just like the forums, how long you have been here/using windows does not make you smarter, more reliable, nor justify you as a hater or lover of the OS. Time != love or hate.

    I need them to do what I want them to do, isn`t that how it is meant to be?
    Like tools, that is correct. Like tools, you have to learn to use the tool so you can use it as *it is meant to be*.

    I am a user who wants to see Operating systems perform well, who wants to have them do what he wants and not have to worry about them
    Not worry about them? Then you have never RTFM on anything? It's all automagically always worked for you on every distro you have ever used? Or wait, better yet, you found a perfect distro that requires no fixes, no updates, no configurations, and is a perfect OS balance between security and desktop usage. Please, enlighten me.

    you yourself would appear to then be a Windows Zealot.
    I am most certainly not. I defend Windows yes, because most people who bash it have no clue what they are talking about. I defend other OSes just as much if needed, because chances are the Windows people bashing it do not understand what they are talking about. I enjoy all OSes and respect them equally. When I get angry is when people bash without warrent or knowledge.

    I mean seriously, I need to learn Windows long enought to know how it scales up?, well 10 years, 50 odd global installations and troubleshooting engagements, an exchange network of approx 2000 servers, one of the first Windows SAN implementations, developing Windows training courses, I think allows me to make a qualified opinion on Windows, and if not then I would like to know what would?
    You would need to learn Windows. Not windows 95. Not windows me. Windows. Time != experience, so toss out the ten years. Your above statement is similar to saying : "I've used Redhat 4 and 5, and maybe up to 6 for the past ten years." Upgrade, learn the differences, and understand how to fix all things *problems* you have with OSes.

    Oh, and sure, lets talk about Mac, Linux etc....whatever you would like to discuss, although I fear that your wealth of knowledge on the subjects will undoubtedly lead you to the correct conclusions regardless, which will no doubt be that yes they are all good and bad and yes we should respect them all, well, no s##t.
    Then do not blame Windows for not being up to your own personal par level. Blame your lack of knowledge on configuration and the understanding of the tools that do the job. Damn right Windows 95 can't handle what you want. So drop it and learn XP, or 2000, or 2003. As my father said "A rusty hammer is never any good. Sometimes you just have to get something new". Your wisdom of Windows can't stop at 98 and prelrease 2000, otherwise you end up saying "Windows can't do ___insert excuse here_____"


    "An admin who does not understand his tools, will blame the OS before blaming himself"



    EDIT: Wow, you were right, we are both hardcore "last word in" kind of people lol. Hey, let's calm down, start over, and settle this in AIM? No need to keep filling up the thread with our banter

  7. #67
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    Ok, in response to your response (as you seem compelled to continue)

    Yes how long you have used something does not make you smarter, better etc..if you are doing the wrong thing, but since I did these things for mission critical systems that probably you yourself have used unkowingly at some point, I believe that I do indeed know how to use Windows.

    Second point on not worrying about them ,well there you seem to have missed the point, not worry about them means that once I have them doing something I would appreciate if they kept doing it, which once again, I thought was the idea? i.e. If SQL is today processing thousands of transactions then you know what, tomorrow I want it to do that as well.. See I know that it doesn`t work straight out of the bag (but thanks for pointing that out) but once its configured I want it to work, and this applies to all OS's, Windows, Solaris, AIX, etc..

    Your next comment is once again a patronzing one, alas.

    Next, I have used all of them, oh and to jump back a point I helped write some manuals on some of it, so rather then RTFM how about WTFM? Oh, and more accusations of a lack of knowledge,I wonder why this seems to be the common thread of your arguement? When its clear that your knowledge of areas such as non Windows/Linux OS, and the real world (as in "everyone who used Win2k has swicthed to Windows 2003") are rather lacking.

    And my use of windows goes all the way up to 2003 and beyond, and you know what, if something doesn`t work as you are told, or expect, or planned, then it is absolutely your right to question it.

    Your arguement seems to be based around "if it doesn`t work then its your fault as you don`t know what to do" so, when planes crash do you blame pilots? or when your car breaks down is that your fault as you didn`t tune the engine up? or how about when your TV goes wrong? or when your wordprocessor craps out and you loose that report you were up all night writing? sure sometimes you do, but sometimes you can blame the folks who made it in the first place, or at least question them.

    Now I have to go and do some work on a Windows cluster that is acting quirky, luckily, as I now know this is clearly my fault I will be in a much better position to fix it...

    If you want to continue this pissing contest then you`ll have to wait till I get back from troubleshooting some Windows (and then an AS400) boxes. Although I really don`t have the time to waste on this regardless of what I am doing.

    So, go ahead, write another post speaking to lack of knowledge and so on, whatever makes you feel better, or perhaps you will come up with a whole new angle, who knows...I for one am done with this, have a nice day.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

  8. #68
    Have fun And consider putting your skills where your mouth are and apply for my security test on the forum.

  9. #69
    there new popup blocker works great

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