Future Shock

[RoadClosed]

Writing phonetics is what enabled mankind to effectively pass down knowledge. Heck we even know alot about the past because of it, so they (ancient culture) succeeded in passing on knowledge that is thousands of years old. We don't know much about history outside of digging up a few clay pots and looking at structures past the 5000 year mark because they didn't write anything. They might have drawn a picture but without sylable and phonetic language, how could one possibly pass on the name of a bone (person) we may have dug up, and I mean that effectively. All of that history we know only happened in the last 70 lifetimes. It's easy to confuse time. Every example of culture given still falls within the last 5000 years. Beyond that little is known (that is why it's called pre-historic) exept one can date cities and look at buried villages and see that dogs were domesticated etc. Other than that, it's nothing. Even the Celtic and the Norse history came THOUASANDS of years after Egypt. Sure scientists dig up flint and combustables in Scotland and Ireland dating to neolithic times, but what is known about them beyond cave dwellers and settlements is through a Roman perspective and what they taught the people in England. The Celtic tribes didn't even unite until the Romans attacked England (several times they were repelled) in 1st Century BC. A far cry from Egypt. In fact most of what we know about Egypt was already lost at that time, waiting to be redisovered.

Of course mankind passed on knowledge from father to son, to neighbors. We homosapiens really have no inherent survival instinct that tells us how to sow a row of seed or raise cattle, but at a period in time vast knowledge was accelerated beyond imagination and only very recently. By the way, I don't subscribe to the Future Shock theory either. I do see the reasoning though. Nothing wrong with speculating the possibility that culture could burn itself out, so to speak.

[bballad]

I would argue roadclosed that writeing allowed us to pass knowladge across cultures, the reason we don't know a lot about the oral cultures after they where wiped out is beacues there is no writen record, that dosn't meen that they couldn't pass down knowladge in their own coulture, look at the epic poems of the anglo/scasons beowulf and what not where around for generations before any one wrote them down....an acurate history? probably not but how acurate where writen histories? THe greeks and egyption's where well known for never letting the truth get in the way of a good story.

Just because there is a gap in our knowladge don't sell the neolithics short, may i recomend a book "War Before Civilzation" not exactly on topic, but the author dose give a good example of the dangers of underestamating prehistoric cultures.

[RoadClosed]

pre-history civilizations barely communicated with one another. Entire cities or in this case, settlements were lost with no indication of who or what they stood for. Countless times in my own life time lost civilizations were dug up. People were even digging them up in ancient times. Even Scotland has their own versions of people and societies that were lost for thousands of years to be rediscovered when storms or floods unearth them. Lol, it is both funny and fascinating that all we know about the vast roman empire, one that is only a few thousand years old, in England; is through the work of modern man in just the last 100 to 200 years or so (1880). This flourishing hot spring (Bath) was a destination throughout the 17th century then one day the river was low and bam, a pristine remnant of perhaps the greatest empire man has known was setting below the modern city. I find that and countless other examples fascinating. The romans kept decent documentation but this and others went forgotton for almost a millenium.

I doubt that pre-history man made any sort of acheivment beyond simple tools, but I don't rule out the extreme possibility that someone may have discovered that lightning holds a power that can be harnessed. The problem is, if that was the case (and I only use that as a single example) the knowledge was destroyed and lost. A few generations worth of information passed on might add up to a single lifetime of information. At this point any reference to what pre-historic man knew is solely based on speculation, except for what is discovered in dating devices and settlements of the period.

//Edit Forgot to mention another example:

look at the epic poems of the anglo/scasons beowulf

From my recolection, Anglo Saxxon came to be after or during the fall of the roman empire! History places it to be around 400-500 A.D. I think. Christian scholars where the ones' who wrote the poems down. I think there are even Germanic and Roman elements in the Anglo Saxxon culture. Well within the 70 lifetime event. Egypt - a vast empire - is already forgotten and possibly buried.

[silver-bullets]

Ray Bradbury Farenhiet 451 anybody? Oral communication probably occured at around the same time as "written". Both progressed into better evolved forms respectively. The first oral communication was probably grunts and that, now we have languages and the whole bit. Writting started as pictures, now there is grammar, etc.. Although it pretty much became complicated when the Egyptions and Romans hit it. Road, simple tools are very useful. Hunting with a "simple" spear is better then taking the sabertooth tiger on with your bare hands? Or do you beg to differ . Here is another philisophical (sp?) thing to pose. Does time really exist or did humans invent time?

-Cheers-

[RoadClosed]

Not at all, I don't deny knowledge was passed on or we wouldn't be here. I am making the argument that beyond 70 lifetimes there isn't much known. Even the iron age, when spears took on a whole new meaning falls within that scope. In fact it is all speculation. Even in Farenheit 451 they based their knowledge on a past culture that wrote down their story to pass on. I would wager that in 100 or 200 years the stories that were once written would begin to change or fade, and in 1000 years cease to exist if reliance on spoekn word alone. I would even wonder if the language could continue it's own existence if again, only reliance on spoken word is used. Oh - I own the movie and the book. I think it could make a good modern ramake with new technology we have.

[bballad]

Check your roman history the germanic tribes (of which the anglo saxsons are a member of ) where part of the downfall of the reman empire...they have been a round for a heck of a long time, but our history of them is limted....hell look at the epic of gilgimesh, it lasted for a wihle before it was writen down. Writeing let us pass knowladge form one civilization to the next, and over great distances...but internaly in a society oral traditions worked well to pass knolwadge and traditions.

[RoadClosed]

I don't need to check roman history to know that. It still falls thousands of years into the scope of the time line. In fact the germanic influences on the Anglo Saxxons can be traced via the Roman Empire expansion and the desire to control it. 70 Lifetimes goes back thousands of years before the Roman Empire even started, even before the celts the norse and the vikings or anything else... the entire western civilization is part or was touched by the Roman Empire. It's very fascinating.

[bballad]

That dosn't change the fact that they had viable societies with the ability to pass on knowladge before they had writeing (nor dose it look to eastern cultures that had writeing before then)....We have very strong eveidence that prehistoric civilzations built and mantained mote and baily type keeps...thats not something you can pull off without passing on prior engineering knowladge.

[RoadClosed]

You have evidence of a moat built more the 5000 years ago? Besides I am not arguing there weren't sociaties that got along a little and perhaps worked together somewhat. The earliest known defensive measures I know of, were walls made of sticks placed sometimes on tope of hills. And in some cases a hole was dug to re-enforece the perimeter defensive posture. Quite amazing but only a few thousand years at best.

[bballad]

again read "war before civilization" Mote and baliy was somewhat commen in neolithic europ