Hypocrisy?

[bballad]

Road, certin groups are in power and stay in power because of the confilct in isrial, and yes hammass is one of those, so is sharones goverment do you think any lasting peace could come from eathier we must marginalize both.

As for religious tolerance in isrial...sure they wont kill you if your catholic, but you better obay curfu, if you are female do not pray in public or you will be stoned and don't expect any of your property rights ot be upheld. Oh also forget abbout marrige only orthodox jews can get married. Now things are difrent for turists because they want your money, but plenty of native catholics and sameritans have been kicked out of there homes by israli terrorists(setalers) and attacked by the army we don't here to much about them because they have smaller numbers then the palistinians.

If you look back all four groups where living in reliative peace before the zionasts got there, if we remove the zionasts peace will come back to hte reagion..this would involve getting rid of the setalers and implamenting a true democracy with a seperation of church and state, the jewish theocracy is the main problem.

[RoadClosed]

Like any society there are criminals who may do those things. For instance when I first moved to Colorado a gay student was brutally murdered in Boulder by a group operating outside the law. Most countries do funnel tourists to "safe areas" via tour buses etc. I agree, but I can tell you I spent a lot of time rummaging around and I never witnessed anything you mention. I am sure they happen, but sponsored by the state and Israeli society as a whole? Not buying it. There law does state Israel is a Jewish state and they have no constitution, but they do recognize 10 Christian denominations, granted they don’t have representation or majority support in the government but so what, it’s a Jewish state, I don’t get the concern? You don’t live in a Baptist town in Georgia and expect to be loved and admired as a Catholic? I am not even overly concerned with Muslim dominance in countries where Christians are arrested, except when the hold them in jail versus exportation or they commit genocide on their own people for fun and a good laugh over cognac.

I am sure some gain advantage by the state of Israel, just like others will gain advantage with its demise. Perhaps some will get their wish and the Jews will be exterminated, since post war Germans failed at the task. I nearly try and state history. It's not as evil or black and white or something anywhere along the lines that Israel is where they are today because they initiated attacks and stole property and invaded Palestine territory. They were attacked, they won. They were given land to share by a league of nations that defeated aggressors in the early part of the last century. Some settlers are very agressive I agree, they've lived in turmoil their whole lives, and when Israel gave control of occupied territories to Palestine authority, they found themselves in a very ****ed up position, hating everyone – the Palestine’s, their own government, the United States, you name it. Some radicals were even abandoned for non-compliance.

Curfew is there because of terrorist attacks; both internal and external. No secret Israel has it’s own problems with people who want a different outcome in the territories, in fact if you remember is was an Israeli youth that assassinated Rabin. Many Middle Eastern countries have curfew, I don't see that as unusual. In some, as I have stated before in another thread, stop all road traffic between cities at night. Very different.

Four groups living in peace before the Zionists? lol, the Ottoman Empire was in turmoil, and those peace loving people were in conflict with uprising all over the kingdom. Forming their own little Kingdoms and fighting to restore older thrones in Transjordan etc. They were given the land, just like other societies and species over history and in a time when borders in the Middle East crumbled. I am saying, the Arabs are the one's who refused peace after the world wars were over. Probably rightfully so considering the Jews are not Muslim, even though they occupied that land during the roman empire and the Muslim faith is the youngest of the followers of Abraham (Jews first, Christians, then Muslim or Islam). But I still say, they did not have the holy lands before they were attacked for living there. So why didn’t they all try some peace before attacking the New State? Everyone acts like Israel came out of no where in the 90s and started harassing Palestine’s, I refute that. Heck I remember Yasser when I was a kid and when he was blowing **** up, next thing you know he was the leader of a governing body.

[Tedob1]

today on yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...dc_3&printer=1

"I said during in our first meeting about three years ago that I accepted his request not to harm Arafat physically," Sharon told Israel's Channel 2. "But I am released from this commitment. I release myself from this commitment regarding Arafat."

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

if i pledge my word to you i cannot release myself from that commitment only you can, other wise it was just a lie.

[RoadClosed]

Sharon is a bit radical. 2 things, Israel hates Hamas - for obvious reasons. They recently made a violent effort to reduce it's leadership. Earlier this year Arafat agreed to unify Hamas and Palestine. Hamas has been seeking to join the PLO. The Palestine National Council probably accepted, thus in Sharons eyes, Arafat is a leader of Hamas? Quite a change from 2 years ago. If I am correct and I believe on April 5th Arafat did just that, let them into the PLO. Guess he's next.

[rcgreen]

FYI

http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles/const-intro-93.htm

[Spyder32]

Sharon is a bit radical. 2 things, Israel hates Hamas - for obvious reasons. They recently made a violent effort to reduce it's leadership. Earlier this year Arafat agreed to unify Hamas and Palestine. Hamas has been seeking to join the PLO. The Palestine National Council probably accepted, thus in Sharons eyes, Arafat is a leader of Hamas? Quite a change from 2 years ago. If I am correct and I believe on April 5th Arafat did just that, let them into the PLO. Guess he's next.

Yeah, and Israel has had little resistance in assassinating those Hamas leader's. We could very well be seeing the death of Arafat pretty soon.

[echocontrol]

but of course, its the american way.....
we are against murder but use capitol punishment.
before you jump to a bleeding heard liberal and ignore me listen.
everyone who commits a horrendous act (no matter how horrible it seems to us in retrospect, at the time it is being committed has a valid perfected good reason for doing it, at least in his own mind. so now, the government is convinced of their right to execute in certain cases, for their own perfectly good reasons. hmmm.....
justice doesn't exist, poor non-white, non-middle class.....we are a capitolistic society and justice is bought just like everything else.

so i have to admit i don't follow the mid-east stuff so don't feel i can even make a comment. but looking at the state of the union, (and not through those rose colored glasses), i really wonder why more money and energy is not spent here fixing our own problems (like the decline of the school system...just for one), instead of fixing other ppl's problems. but its always easier to look afar and fix anothers problem rather than look at your own and fix them. just an opinion...now i'm not anti-american, or even anti-war if it needs be....

[Spyder32]

Originally posted here by echocontrol
but of course, its the american way.....
we are against murder but use capitol punishment.
before you jump to a bleeding heard liberal and ignore me listen.
everyone who commits a horrendous act (no matter how horrible it seems to us in retrospect, at the time it is being committed has a valid perfected good reason for doing it, at least in his own mind. so now, the government is convinced of their right to execute in certain cases, for their own perfectly good reasons. hmmm.....
justice doesn't exist, poor non-white, non-middle class.....we are a capitolistic society and justice is bought just like everything else.

so i have to admit i don't follow the mid-east stuff so don't feel i can even make a comment. but looking at the state of the union, (and not through those rose colored glasses), i really wonder why more money and energy is not spent here fixing our own problems (like the decline of the school system...just for one), instead of fixing other ppl's problems. but its always easier to look afar and fix anothers problem rather than look at your own and fix them. just an opinion...now i'm not anti-american, or even anti-war if it needs be....

Hrmm, yeah well frickin' duh! LOL, of course we need our own problems such as poverty, school system, etc to be fixed but our WONDERFUL president feel's that he is President of the World, not president of the U.S.A

[RoadClosed]

Yeah, and Israel has had little resistance in assassinating those Hamas leader's. We could very well be seeing the death of Arafat pretty soon.

Everytime I see Arafat on TV or in and Article I think back over the years. I really can't believe he is still alive. Israel has little resistance because Hamas has a long standing history of exteme violence. Even some palestines are scared to death of them. They are a secret army that walks among them.

Back in the USA we've been throwing money and resources at schools, the homeless, etc for over 40 years. Social programs are not working and vast changes will never come because they are too radical and less important than getting policitacl parties power. Part of the reason is because many never take a moment to address issues, instead of candidates or their own personal BS. For example:

The schools are producing stupid kids. Let's toss in more money, well they are more stupid. Let's remove responsiblity for grades, test scores are lower. Let's let them be their own little adults, test scores lower, let's remove competition, test score lower. Let's remove testing, kids can't point out Mississppi on a map let alone spell it. So for now, and the near future, live with what you got. Even taking a critical eye to the USA brings up a rosey picture at the future vs. what could have been based on historical context of other countries.