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Thread: getting webserver password

  1. #21
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Good information may bring him into jail and regret for the rest of his life.
    I think that is an important point. We have a moral responsibility to advise people if what they are proposing is illegal or will get them into trouble at work/school/college.

    The problem is that people come here with very little knowledge and experience, have heard of and half understood a concept, and think this will allow them to achieve something. The classic example is the student who wants to bypass his institution's policies and firewall to use P2P and play internet games . I do not think that it is worthy of this site to simply flame or neg such people, if we are a true security minded site we must tell them that what they are proposing is a bad idea and WHY it is.

    I am sure that many of us encounter this in the workplace............the user says: "can you get this to do X,y and z" when what the SHOULD be asking is "I want to do a, b and c; how can I do it"..........I am afraid that I have a zero tolerance of half baked user "solutions"

    I think that Lansing_Banda's post was reasonably balanced.............it explained the principles/concepts but not HOW to do it.

    we COULD give out information knowing its for illegal purposes
    In which case we would be:

    1. Aiding and abetting
    2. Inciting
    3. An accessory after the fact
    4. Conspiring

    And probably a whole load of other things as well

    just my thoughts on the matter

  2. #22
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    once again my post has been taken out of context as above.....

    no, we can provide information, but its the person who commits the act that is at fault. UNLESS naturally if you say its perfectly fine and legal, but if they ask a question, you give them an answer thats it. what ever they do with the INFORMATION your provided them its their liability.

    **Please note i am Australian, the other people are from where ever and have different laws**

    however, in ANY case, it really does come down to the morality of the members at AO
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

  3. #23
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    we COULD give out information knowing its for illegal purposes and take ZERO responsibilty
    I don't think that I have taken you out of context, particularly as you have virtually repeated yourself.

    OK I do not know Australian law, but I find it hard to believe that you can just supply information and advice without also accepting responsibility.

    As we are not responding in a professional capacity there is no civil/commercial comeback. For example I could give someone advice and they lose all their data, fry their motherboard or whatever..............I am not legally responsible because there is no contractual relationship between us. If there were, you can be sure that I would have some damn good Professional Liability Insurance

    The difference is between CRIMINAL and CIVIL laws. If I know that the information is required for illegal purposes and still supply it, then there is no way I can
    take ZERO responsibilty
    I think that you will find that is the same in Australia as well, it certainly is in Europe, and I would imagine, North America (any comments guys?)

    OK, let's approach it from the other way..............most of the defences I have seen in cases involving these particular legal concepts have been "I did NOT know........." That seems to be the direct opposite of what you are suggesting?

    Can you check that out, particularly the criminal law vs. civil law aspect.

  4. #24
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    look, just because you dont know what your doing doesnt mean its not your fault...

    and just because its LEGAL doesnt make it RIGHT!

    the point im trying to say, is that if you provide information to someone KNOWING its for illegal purposes then yes, you are at fault. but im saying if you dont know because they dont specify what exactly they are asking, and we give them information and they use it illegal (without out knowledge) then its nothing to do with us.

    Case1:

    hi, i need to get a server password.

    re1: hi, you can iehter do this this and this... (all illegal things but not stating)

    case1: i got arrested cause i did what you said.... (re1: is at faullt.)

    **

    Case2: i need a password.....

    re2: why?

    case2: because i looked myself out (legal purpose)

    re2: do this this and this (legal OR illegal it doesnt matter)

    case2: thanks i got arrested because i did this...


    ** please note if you are under the impression its perfectly legal what they are trying to do. then whatever information you give them, is regardless.**
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

  5. #25
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Hi Mate!

    Wonderful thing the English language, isn't it?

    I believe that we are actually arguing the same case?

    Your comments on morality I left aside, as they were obviously correct. I was more concerned with the legality bit.

    Yes, you are quite right...........sort of if I taught someone how to drive; it doesn't mean he should use that to drive the getaway car from a bank robbery? That would NOT be my fault.

    Yet if I taught him how to make a bomb..................

    Cheers

  6. #26
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    no, you are incorrect in saying that. if you teach them to make a bomb, the ONLY law your breaking is if you actually create the bomb yourself. you can provide plans and schematics but provided you didnt know it was to actually make the bomb, no issues.

    i dont understand what is so hard to get?? i know its probably borderline, but its not aiding and abetting. (thats when you participate in the actual event)

    but anyways, im in Australia as i said. Nihil is right, i think we are arguing the same point. but yea, thats all ive got to say peace
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

  7. #27
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    maybe we need a new name for this thread hahahahah,
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

  8. #28
    tried to scan the webb server for passwords?

  9. #29
    wow wow wow

    freez for a second !!!!!!!

    have you noticed the sentence under my name that says : "AO newbie" !!!!

    give me a break let me learn first how to ask some questions then judge me guys

    if it might seem insecure for you to answer me, them don't

  10. #30
    Gray Haired Old Fart aeallison's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by Rachid Abdallah
    wow wow wow

    freez for a second !!!!!!!

    have you noticed the sentence under my name that says : "AO newbie" !!!!

    give me a break let me learn first how to ask some questions then judge me guys

    if it might seem insecure for you to answer me, them don't
    Then let us help you with a legitimate question. Please don't be a troll in these forums. I hate to give negs out, but you are definately on my "watch list" d00d!

    Strike 1!
    I have a question; are you the bug, or the windshield?

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