Zealocy: Reporting from Linux-land

[catch]

In pursuit of more Linux experts I hit the chat circuit. IRC and even *gasp* Yahoo Chat. As a rule, I just watched passively to see anyone who seemed a little more knowledgeable than the rest. What did I learn?

Apparently the following is true in Linux-land:

Microsoft.com is hosted on a Linux server
Hotmail.com is hosted on a Linux server
Top Secret government computers run Windows NT
Thousands of the TS NT systems are compromised every year
Top secret government computers run Linux
None of the TS Linux systems are ever compromised
Nearly all self-procliamed Linux experts are MCSEs
Windows 2003 is a “small services system”
Recent versions of Solaris are based on Linux
Recent versions of FreeBSD are based on Linux
IP Chains is the strongest firewall in the world
The answer to every Linux security deficiency is “SE Linux”
SE Linux is part of the kernel and is not a research prototype
The TCSEC and all its derivatives are a joke
Linux’s open source nature means you can run it as a microkernel
If you claim to have credentials people put more weight in what you say, if they agree with you

Now, many of these points were repeated time and place again and again. I couldn’t believe it.

Look Linux-land, we get your point. You don’t mind 0.x software, you don’t mind informal development models, and you think that the total number of exploits is the exemplification of all information security.

You can be forgiven for those sins… but the rest of this misinformation?
Asking a bit much.

cheers,

catch

PS. One person stated that they planned to turn over the logs of our conversation (where they told me about all the hacked TS NT systems and secure TS Linux systems that they knew about from their work at the State government) over to the people at 2600 (I thought they were dead?), so keep an eye out for that gem.

[Cemetric]

Hi all ...

I'm the inventor of Linux ...my alias is Linus Torvalds ... I use some guy to do all public relations things like give speeches and stuff. But I'm the real genius behind Linux.

So you could say I'm the über linux geek ... and I say that all the things stated in the above post are true .

realy they are !



C.

[hardcode121]

I'm the inventor of Linux ...my alias is Linus Torvalds ... I use some guy to do all public relations things like give speeches and stuff. But I'm the real genius behind Linux.

So you could say I'm the über linux geek ... and I say that all the things stated in the above post are true .

Perfect.. I believe you.. At last I succeded in finding the real genius 'The Creator of Linux'...

Microsoft.com is hosted on a Linux server
Hotmail.com is hosted on a Linux server

My google search for the phrase 'where microsoft.com is hosted' has given me this result in its top 5 results in less than half a minute...
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted...,65.55.255.255


How the netcraft people lie so bluntly... I cant believe this...

Anyway... Pray that saints dont get offended at no0b this time.. Just tried to find out the truth.

[nihil]

C'mon catch fess up...........................

Did you really get to meet Michael Jackson?

[MrLinus]

Microsoft.com is hosted on a Linux server
Hotmail.com is hosted on a Linux server

Try replacing the IS with WAS. Hotmail at one point was indeed on a *nix box (not sure if it was Linux or not). This was prior to Hotmail being purchased by Microsoft and eventually, MS phased them out. I believe (and don't quote me on this) at one point as well Microsoft was experimenting with *nix and Windows webservers and compatibility (most likely for the Unix tools). Further, I suspect that there was an association of Microsoft running *nix when it was the Hotmail servers specifically that did it.

Top Secret government computers run Windows NT
Thousands of the TS NT systems are compromised every year
Top secret government computers run Linux
None of the TS Linux systems are ever compromised

So are thousands of *nix boxes. Incompetent admins are not solely the realm of Windows. They are within the Realm of IT itself. There's also a belief that the gov't has proof of Aliens.

Nearly all self-procliamed Linux experts are MCSEs

So are nearly all admins. When you have 350K MCSEs everyone is one (dime a dozen)

Windows 2003 is a “small services system”

Isn't that why MS created Data Center and other variants of Windows?

Recent versions of Solaris are based on Linux
Recent versions of FreeBSD are based on Linux

No but I believe they've incorporated a lot of what Linux has brought to the market.

IP Chains is the strongest firewall in the world

Definately not. It's a good home level firewall but these days one should at least be using IPTables or something strong. Static packet filtering is extremely limited.

The answer to every Linux security deficiency is “SE Linux”
SE Linux is part of the kernel and is not a research prototype

Then why would I have to recompile the kernel to get SE Linux in? And the true answer to every security deficiency, regardless of Windows or Linux, is the human being admining it.

The TCSEC and all its derivatives are a joke

Only to those that don't understand.

Linux’s open source nature means you can run it as a microkernel

It's not the open source nature that makes this. It's the design. IMO.

If you claim to have credentials people put more weight in what you say, if they agree with you

Again. This isn't unique to *nix.


Then again.. these are all just my opinions and others opinions. Take them as you will. Catch, if you're not keen on using *nix (whichever flavour) then don't. I fail to see the purpose behind the religious debates other than for the sake of debate.

PS to your PS:

over to the people at 2600 (I thought they were dead?)

No. Phrack closed. 2600 still publishes quarterly. You can visit their website at... 2600

[Trevoke]

There is a paper online on how Microsoft did the research about how to switch everything at Hotmail over to Windows, and how they had to craft some tools that didn't exist in Windows (but did in *nix) to do it. There are of course also situations of tools that exist in Windows and not in *nix, but those worked out in their favor
The whole thing is actually quite ingenious.. Let me see if I can find it..
Nope, can't right now. *sigh*.

[the_JinX]

Linux’s open source nature means you can run it as a microkernel

I think they have mistaken running linux on top of a microkernel for running linux as a microkernel..

As my custom title states I am a GNU/Linux fan..
But as you know (atleast I hope most of you know) I am realistic..

The last couple of years I've had so much fun argueing with other linux fanboys over some magical stuff they attribute to linux and opensource in general..
You have only skimmed the top of the iceberg that is GNU/Misinformation..
The stuff I read on IRC and in forums..

I think that is the price GNU/Linux has to pay for it's incresing popularity..

It's not just GNU/Linux that seems to be having these kinds of problems..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10...ality_problem/

I usualy prefer to get my information from established sources like man pages, /usr/doc, tldp and fsf instead of forums and hearsay..
Only if I can't find what I'm looking for I'll ask some help on forums and selected IRC rooms, usualy just to get some good keywords to help my search for credable information..


When I started using Linux in 1998 things were quite different

[rcgreen]

That's zealotry. And no wonder you found so much bogus info.
You consulted the internet. Did you really expect anything else?

Here's what you do. get a second computer. Download a copy of linux.
Install and try it yourself. Careful! It's addictive. Newbs become zealots
overnight.

[mohaughn]

Hotmail was freeBSD and apache. I was part of the joint development team that helped bring Exchange up to snuff to be used by ISP's and extremely large web based email providers like hotmail.


Here is the article that somebody else referred to- http://www.microsoft.com/technet/int...l/default.mspx


The only place you would probably find even more bogus information would be wikipedia..

[hypronix]

Originally posted here by catch

Apparently the following is true in Linux-land:
[..]
SE Linux is part of the kernel and is not a research prototype

Well I'd consider that SELinux is a kernel patch. It is a research in and of itself but once you patch it becomes part of the kernel. The fact that it's not in the vanilla [yet] is a matter of stability and average user needs.

It depends who you talk to and where you talk to them [IRC nets]. There's gonna be a lot of joking around to weed out users that don't bother to actually research; in a serious conversation most Linux users know what's true and what's not. IT professionals especially [you have to realize that many people you've spoken to are users not IT/IS personnel] would be aware of what's really going on. Beyond the joking around and rumours that are usually sprung from people not being able to read information properly.

It's not a fault of Linux or the community. You can't force a stupid person not to use Linux or have them shut their mouth, they'll eventually give up when they're far enough from the truth. I know you can argue that the community is made up of all users, including the dumb ones; but they are just passing by, like skiddies pass by AO once in a while, like dumb sysadmins pass through admin roles in various companies.