Bush is So Bored He's Spying on You

[genXer]

So while we have been busy ranting, throwing our collective arms up in the air and running up and down the hallways screaming gibberish... well I hope that's what you're doing because I am doing that right now, just taking a break to type this, we are served up our next distraction, and I love the picture of the sign:

From, and I apologize to whomever here coined it first, "McNews":

Official: Thousands of troops will head to border

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush will call for the deployment of "less than 10,000" National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexico border to serve a "supportive role" in the mission to keep people from entering the United States illegally, a senior administration official said Monday.

Link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/...ion/index.html

Also - back on topic, does anyone here believe that the US public, in general, is ready to replace our government, or will we just sit back, watch some more reality T.V. and pontificate on how we should change our government? We're good at b1tching about it, but are we ready to start making some changes? I have been watching Lou Dobbs on CNN and the "Situation Room" with Wolfie Blitzer and I think Lou Dobbs' head is going to pop soon - those two shows are getting close to being on par with "The Daily Show"... but the problem is that they are being serious, while Stewart is being satirical...well mostly at night, mostly.

[RoadClosed]

Don't watch tv and yes I am willing to elect people outside of the mainstream. But NOT just because they are outside, they have to represent me and be qualified.

[Tiger Shark]

they have to represent me and be qualified

ROFLMAO.... Good Luck...

[OverdueSpy]

This is a civil liberties issue, but not in the way most U.S. Citizens think. Only a very small percentage of Americans fall into the category of caring about and truly understanding America's civil liberties laws. Most people fall into the category of not caring at all or simply don't understand what civil liberties really are.

Civil libertiy is the protection from the power of government. Shuch as due process (the right that the government not take an individual's life, liberty, or property without a fair trial), the right to bear arms, the right to privacy, the right to freedom of speech, the right to freedom of religion, and the right to freedom of assembly.

In this instance most people are claiming that the telephone number database is a violation of their right to privacy, which happens to be blatantly hypocritic. I say this because the local grocery store collects more personal information on you through their in store discount card; not to mention your gas card, credit card, movie watchers card, and monthly bills, which when combined together, and purchasable from many companies by the way, would give the government a much better idea of how you live your life (and possibly living beyond your means by supporting illegal activities) as opposed to what phone numbers you dial and receive calls from. Some people claim that the issue is Right to Pivacy over illegal search and seziure. You are sending the information out over public/private wire. Sure we could always correct this by turning over the entire telecom infastructure to the government, which would make tampering with any electronic communication a Federal Crime as with mail tampering. Now that would be entirely too much power for the government and would assuredly be abused.

If there is any Civil Liberty gripe here it woul be over the right to due process. But you would have to prove that the numbers dialed were your property, that the government stole the property in question from your person, and that you were harmed by the governments collection of these numbers. So far I have not seen anyone step forward making this claim. I guess if you are a crook, drug dealer, child rapist, terrorist, ect... and you need to communicate with your other malignant cohorts, then sure you should complain as loudly as you can.

To top this all off, the Presidential War Powers will trump several of our civil liberties during a time of war. But that is not my focus at the moment.

Since freedom of Speech is a civil liberty, and the President gets his own Congress to speak in front of, I think that to make things equal the government should have to build a congressional meeting area for each individual and staff it with a congress for everyone to speak to. Sound absurd? Well, so does claiming a right to privacy over this issue.

[RoadClosed]

ROFLMAO.... Good Luck...

I try But what I mean to say is I don't just vote for the one that's going to win or the one that my party says is the best. Or candidates that the french like.

[nihil]

I think that OverdueSpy raises an interesting perspective here.

That is pretty much as the issue is perceived in the UK, in fact, it isn't even considered an issue. The information is not admissible in a court of law (our due process), but can be useful in solving crime, preventing crime and for tracing missing children and all sorts. You cannot logically complain about the slowness and ineptitude of the authorities whilst erecting spurious barriers in front of them.

I would imagine that they can already check train, plane and shipping passenger lists can't they? Over here, that kind of stuff is considered within their remit, just like hotel reservations.

Sure we could always correct this by turning over the entire telecom infastructure to the government, which would make tampering with any electronic communication a Federal Crime as with mail tampering. Now that would be entirely too much power for the government and would assuredly be abused.

We had that for many years in the UK and it was not abused. The actual abuse was by the employees in their position of working for a state monopoly. This became too much of a burden on the taxpayer so the whole thing was privatised. Of course being British we had to do things our way, so everything was put into state control apart from the city of Kingston-upon-Hull, that remained private throughout (and profitable)

I believe that we have a slightly different cultural attitude, but our main difference is our geographical situation. There are almost 65 million of us living in a place about a half the size of Oregon!!! if you live that close together you get to know more about the people around you. You also tend to meet them on a very regular basis when you are out and about.

We also do not travel long distances each year; I believe the average private automobile milage is around 10,000 per year.

And we have the pub/social club culture. If you go to your "local" you will learn a lot more about your neighbours, what is going on etc. than in a million years of analysing phone calls. I suppose you could accuse us of being a nation of gossips, but it is what we are used to, so we see the other stuff as pretty inconsequential as a result.

Please do not think that we "trust" our governments, we do not. I can also assure you that if we found that the authorities were bugging property, tapping phones and intercepting mail, we would scream just as loudly as any American.

[RoadClosed]

Nihil, you have just explained my "exact" interpretation of English (UK) culture. Where I live, and it is a city, it is almost 3 miles to the nearest shop or restaurant. We spend a lot of time in our cars and by ourselves. But that is only true to the populations that live outside urban areas. But even in England (UK) you are never far from a pub or place to gather and converse. Well there is Scotland. The culture is different. We look at the government in a very different way. I was reading a UK mag the other day on Linux and how certain initiatives over there would be considered socialist over here. He is correct in general.

//EDIT we already had a government like telecommunications provider. It was called Bell Telecom (ma bell) it is completely sucked, you couldn't use any phone but theirs. You were at the mercy of their horrid customer service. There was no deviation EVER from their set rule base and they were slow if not at all moving on innovation. So when MCI started building microwave towers along train routes for train communication and control (Microwave Communications Incorporated) they and American Telephone and Telegraph (ATT) realized they could carry long distance calls. Bell said no, a legal battle ensued and the Bell Telecomm (bell) was broken into baby bells which are now slowly rejoining. They were US West, Pac Bell, Southern Bell, Bell Atlantic etc. To keep the whole thing running an authoritative body was kept to keep standard practices in place... BellCore (Bell Communications Research). Sorry I was a phone dude remember?

If the government takes over the communications infrastructure I am leaping of a 1st story window.

[genXer]

Overduespy - you definitely raise valid points. What raises my ire, is where does the surveillance stop? Do we really know how far our government is going with it's monitoring?

As I feel not completely informed just yet on this topic, I am off to do some research, before flapping my gums further. However, at this point, I would only suggest we all stay as informed as possible on this topic; and in fact this should actually be a wake up call to the general populis, not to march on Washington or decry our fargin right being wiolated, but to become more informed about our government and to keep up date with what is going on; not just this issue, but with as much as goes on.

Okay - shutting up now and going on to learning.

Rapier57 - if you're out there - wouldn't this topic be an interesting for a story? Not my flapping, but the surveillance issue... or has this already been done time and time again?

edit - forgot this quote earlier:

Security technologist Bruce Schneier, on the Friday before Mother's Day:
"The NSA wants to remind everyone to call their mothers this Sunday. They need to calibrate their system."

[AngelicKnight]

right being wiolated

I wary much hate it when my wights are wiolated.

Sorry, I couldn't pass that one up.

[genXer]

I wary much hate it when my wights are wiolated.

Sorry, I couldn't pass that one up.

Heh - that's why I did that. Of course - that could be why I am not taken seriously at times, my need to be a smart-auss. I just can't help it at times. In all seriousness though, from this topic we started on, and events happening in the last year, has made me think about going to law school and also taking classes on political science and get more involved, rather than me just b1tching about it. I might as well do something worthwhile while b1tching.

But hey - guess what? In my research on on our government and my interest in old high school films - I found one on democracy at archive.org I thought worth sharing:

http://www.archive.org/details/democracy_1945

Two main interest points from the film - have we lost this? They quote Aristotle and others in this interesting film:
1. Shared respect
2. Shared power