Were they right to leave him?

[dalek]

Because you were once in the military that gives you the right to dictate that everyone should take an active step in saving lives

No I didn't say that..you did, but then again you usually having nothing constructive to say about the military period, and that's okay, even people serving time in jail for murder have a right to an opinion.

I still stand by the fact that the military (while they may save a lot of lives) causees the greatest loss of lives

Actually if you cared to delve deep into the facts and figures, the greatest loss of life on this planet right now is A)Cancer B) AIDS C) Hunger D) Vehicles E) I could go on before I get to the military...

So the fact that any of you were in the military gives you no right to speak with any more authority on this subject than I do... none at all

I absolutely believe I do have more right to speak about the military then you do, you on the other hand have no right whatsoever, I have and am now living on the other side of the fence, so that means I have been on both sides, have you? I think not, so stop commenting on something you have no clue about.

how many of you entered the military because you were broke

I joined because I wanted to travel, see the world, see what other people in other countries do for a living, not sit around with a thumb up my ass at a dipshit job, also I grew up in that enviroment (military) and was very comfortable joining, so not everyone joins based upon your perspective on things.

Something tells me when you're climbing Everest that you never relax... it's one of those things that if you do it you die... as before you're using second hand accounts... You haven't been there... so you can't say they could have easily done it.... This isn't exactly a trail in the neighbourhood park... they couldn't pick him up and give him a piggy-back down the side... A lot of effort goes into mounting a rescue operation... a lot of specialty gear is needed.... they most likely weren't carrying that gear, which would have made it very difficult.. On top of an extra person to provide oxygen to, they would have had to transport him... whoever was carrying him would have used more oxygen... He had no gloves... assuming someone had a second pair, they'd be without should they lose theirs... frostbite that will cost you hands is a huge risk... How about getting him down a 40' drop? they didn't have a board to strap him to and lower him... it would have been messy... He couldn't fend for himself.. at that point rescue isn't an option... not unless you're prepared for such a task.

Pure Selfishness, if there was a shred of hope that they could have saved this person, and if it meant putting off the glory for 1 day, they should have made the attempt, if during that attempt they do not succeed in saving him, well at least they tried. Also I am sure during these expeditions all sorts of contingency plans are planned out, such as extra Oxygen being available, such as available rescue ( I believe the locals have a rapid response team standing by for just this purpose fully kitted and spurred).

[MURACU]

All I have to say is this :

An Australian man left for dead as he descended Mount Everest has left the "death zone" near the summit and has spoken by phone to his relieved wife.
Lincoln Hall, 50, was left behind by his Sherpas on Thursday after he began hallucinating and refused to move.
But he was found alive on Friday, and rescuers have now accompanied him down to a camp at about 6,400m (21,000ft).
During the descent Mr Hall became weak and despite hours of effort and the Sherpas were told by their expedition leader to leave him behind, Mr Chessell said, speaking in Australia.
Mr Abramov's statement said Mr Hall had died as he descended.
But on Friday, an American climber - Dan Mazur - came across Mr Hall and found he had survived the night, at more than 8,000m (24,000ft).
After giving him hot tea and oxygen, a radio call was made to Mr Abramov, who ordered an urgent rescue mission.
.

The big difference here is that not only did some stop but he radioed down.

There comes a cut-off point where the risk outweighs the benefit in lifesaving.

Tiger : For me the question here is not about if there is a cut off point or even if there are times when you have to abondon someone to save others but rather if in this situtation they were at the cut off point. IMO They were not because if they were they would have been coming down to their camp and not continuing to the summit. The descision here was not a moral descision about if they were putting themselves in danger but rather would they have made the summit if they had even tried to help him.

Ht My opinions are based on my experiances in trekking and it is true I have never really done any high altitude mountain climbing. Still there is also Sir Edmund Hiliary who said the same thing who's opinion does carry a bit of weight in this domain.

[dalek]

Calgarian was close to summit

Brash was only 200 metres from the summit when he decided to abandon his climb and help the Australian, his wife said.

It was Brash's second attempt in the last two weeks to reach the top of the world's tallest mountain.

"I'm sure he has some mixed emotions, maybe not right now, but in the future he might, and it will probably haunt him for the rest of his life," she said.

"But I know that he'll be happy with his decision, and it's a greater achievement than actually reaching the summit, to be part of saving someone's life."

The rescue of the Australian mountaineer follows the well-publicized and controversial death of another Everest climber last week.

David Sharp of England died on the mountain of apparent oxygen deprivation, and reports have alleged that more than 40 fellow mountaineers opted not to assist him despite his situation.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...st-rescue.html

Only 200 metres from the "top" I guess some things are more important then others...

[Tiger Shark]

Only 200 metres from the "top" I guess some things are more important then others...

Now... You aren't going to believe this... You're going to think it's BS... You're going to call me on it... Have fun...

200m from the top of Everest can still be about 1-2 hours travel...

Have at it... But first read this. It'll give you some clues as to the mental state, difficulties faced and time all this takes...

[MURACU]

I wonder if that was 200 meters in distance or altitude. In any case he was much higher than Sharp who was left to die at 300 meters lower than the summit. Guess your right Dalek somethings ........

[dalek]

Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
Now... You aren't going to believe this... You're going to think it's BS... You're going to call me on it... Have fun...

200m from the top of Everest can still be about 1-2 hours travel...

Have at it... But first read this. It'll give you some clues as to the mental state, difficulties faced and time all this takes...

I can well imagine, how important oxygen can be (ex-submariner) and the effects of compression and gravity, has on a body in extremes. No doubt from his journal it was a hard climb and there was problems....well this guy Edmund Hillary has been there and done that, all with equipment from the 50's, less traveled routes and hardly the rescue service's that are available now.

I can understand if during their climb they were having problems and to turn around to save someone may have jeopardised their own lives may be a factor in their decision...rightly or wrongly,we will never know, I do know it is a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives, and now they have the dubious honour of being known as the climber's who left someone to die, not what they accomplished..try writing a best seller now...

[Tiger Shark]

Dalek:

Yes, they will have to live with it for the rest of their lives... But no-one can question their decision unless they have walked that last half mile to the summit of Everest themselves...

As to a best seller... It'll probably sell more _because_ he was that man... It's the "modern way"...

[dalek]

But no-one can question their decision unless they have walked that last half mile to the summit of Everest themselves...

Very true and sad, that the end justifies the means.....and yep the book will be a bestseller if Oprah gets ahold of it...hope Cruise doesn't get the part....

[MURACU]

Actually I would be for Cruise getting the part but only if they could put him up there and leave him.

[Agent_Steal]

Interesting comment HT ..

As for those of you that have this high and lofty attitude that were never in the military... what right do you have to it... deb, I've never heard mention of you being in the military so why do you have the right to be so high and mighty (although I don't thnk the military would give you that right either).... Because you give once a year to charity for the tax write-off??? I give to every charity that comes to my door, to every charity that comes to my office... I donate my time to global awareness campaigns and fundraisers and I've never once thought of the tax write-off.... I've also never asked the homeless men on the street to write me a receipt for the money I give them... but I freely give to them as well...

Seems to me that you are not immune to that attitude yourself , for which you are critizing others to have ...