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Thread: Largest Security Lawsuit Ever

  1. #11
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Nihil .. it's an American thing.

    When the SSN was initiated it was designed solely as an account number to Social Security. It was FORBIDDEN to be used as an identifying feature. So our anti Orwellian minds don't like it being used in that way. That is (one). People in the time frame of the Soviet Union's agression were afraid of becoming a number instead of John Smith. THX-1138... no what I mean?

    (Two)... the people in the 70s decided it was being used in "that way" and abused. So the government, our big abusive brother, decided we didn't have a right to financial privacy while at the same time protecting consumer concerns, and enacted the Financial Privacy Act of 1978. Note the word privacy... us Americans get hung up on that. It basically states that you as a holder of the SSN will protect it and limit it in certain ways and we have a right to confidentiality that directly ties to the SSN. Even though the government can get it via Legal Procedures in Criminal cases. And there is no protection within the constitution to stop them. The GOV that is.

    Note my other thread on the Patriot Act and financial monitoring. Also on a side note the Electronic Communications Privacy Act modified the Foreign Intelligence Act of 1978. The Patriot Act modifys many of these older laws.

    But the Patriot Act snuck in and REALLY removes Financial Privacy. So we are protective over this number because it gives someone access to a range of information and they aren't supposed to access it without our permission. It IS the basis for our identity in the scheme of things. the very basis. It's not supposed to be used to ID us, but it does and that makes us freak out and it's supposed to be protected. This is getting long but it's an American Thing.

    As for the Vets, well they pretty much sign away every lick of privacy when they join up. That SSN is on EVERYTHING with most of it public record. Hell even a check you right at the Commissary has it one the front. Which gets imaged and transported all over the globe depending on where your bank is. So I don't see the big deal in this case, outside GREED.

    It's kind of like protecting your IP address. Keeping it secret at times. That either made it MORE confusion or not?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Thanks RoadClosed , that clarifies things a lot............. this is actually very important to you guys whilst it is pretty meaningless over here.

    I would guess that if you walked down my main street and stopped a hundred people and asked them their National Insurance Number (our SSN) and offered them $1000 for the correct answer............... you could still afford to buy me beer all night.



    For example, we do not need it for bank accounts and credit cards.............. it isn't even in their records.

    We go for passport, driver's licence, and such.

  3. #13
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    For example, we do not need it for bank accounts and credit cards.............. it isn't even in their records.

    We go for passport, driver's licence, and such.
    Hmmm. Having lived there for a time I didn't know that. To use an ancient English proverb ...

    "That is ****ing brilliant."

    Our drivers license and passport are issued based on our SSN. Not supposed to be that way!
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  4. #14
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Hi RoadClosed ,

    I forgot to mention that we also use our Birth Certificates a lot, and that it is common to have to produce multiple proofs of identity.

    I would like to apologise for taking the thread a little off course, but I am afraid that the UK media only report the events and do not explain their significance. Until RoadClosed posted that explanation I had no idea of the significance of your SSN, given that our one is pretty meaningless other than for collecting social security contributions and claiming benefits.

    At the moment, our government is looking at the introduction of some sort of "national identity card" which would be effectively bringing your SSN scenario to the UK, as "all the eggs would be in one basket"......................not only that, it looks that I would be forced to pay around 200 bucks to get one, and it won't be optional.

    //aside.............. I have never had any problem in using my gun licence as a proof of identity, even in the Turkish Agricultural Bank in Istanbul //

    Actually, there was a time when the Firearm Certificate (gun licence) was a more secure document than our passport, from a forgery viewpoint.

    Thanks to you all for the interesting discussion, I will pass the info on to my MP (elected representative) as I am sure it will be useful.

  5. #15
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    Employment in the USA requires 1) identity and 2) eligibility for an employer to fill out Form I-9, which is required from the passing of The Immigration Reform and Control Act [1]. This form needs documents that establish those 2 criteria, and it also needs your SSN seperately even if you can somehow produce documents that establish those 2 without a SSN.

    Basically you need some type of ID card, and your Social Security Card to get a job here. You could pull it off with just a passport, too, but most employers don't mention that option when they're copying your documents since relatively few people travel far from where they grew up.


    In the military it is impossible to hide your SSN. It's on our Military ID cards (along with everything about us), (as mentioned) on our checks in the comissaries/exchanges, and overall everywhere you would want to do something. In the civilian world you can sometimes leave the SSN field blank without issues, but in the military world forget it...

    Links:
    [1] - About Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification - http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/faqeev.htm

  6. #16
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
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    Hi just to throw in a Canadian version...our's is somewhat like the US SSN, with a little of the UK's thrown in.

    SOCIAL INSURANCE NUMBER (SIN...go figure eh!))

    History

    The Social Insurance Number (SIN) Program was introduced by Parliament in 1964 to register people with the Unemployment Insurance Commission (now known as Employment Insurance) and the Canada Pension Plan. In 1967, the SIN also became a file identifier for Revenue Canada (now known as Canada Revenue Agency Government of Canada site).(TAX Gestapo)

    Since 1976, the Proof-of-Identity Program requires SIN applicants to present documentation to prove their identity and legal status in Canada. This is required for a first-time SIN request, as well as for a SIN card replacement and an amendment to a SIN card or record.
    http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/gateways/topics/sxn-gxr.shtml

    Unfortunately this has mutated to the point that it is used for just about everything, the employer uses it to do Criminal Background checks, as well as Credit Histories, but as with everything else that gets bloated, most places here in Canada usually require 2 or 3 pieces of ID, so it's the driver's liscence and SIN card, used to be the Birth Certificate we all carried was enough.

    While I was in the Military they provided us with a seperate ID number, but this only referred back to the SIN anyway's but with fingerprints added...

    At one time you had to be 16 or employment age to recieve one, but now I believe some of the provinces are doing it automatically at birth...

    At one time (may now be on the front burner again with the border issues) there was talk of getting rid of the SIN card and replacing it with something else (just another fee if you ask me).They will probably change it with one that will need to be compliant with the new security measures being introduced at the borders..

    Seems to me with all of the recent problems we are all experiencing with these cards, that a change for all three is in the winds, as nihil pointed out the UK is trying to introduce a new ID system and I can see the US will at least start to look into one, if only to get rid of the old one and all of it's problems...(leaks/fraud etc).
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  7. #17
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    And yet more fun!

    On Monday, a judge prevented the Veterans Administration from offering reparations until a possible $26.5 BILLION class action lawsuit is settled.

    [snip]

    A federal judge temporarily has barred the government from publicizing its free credit monitoring offer to veterans whose personal data was stolen and wants to see if they might get a better federal offer.

    Lawyers who have filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the 26.5 million veterans and active-duty troops affected contend that accepting the government's offer could jeopardize their chance of winning more money in the privacy suit.

    U.S. District Judge William Bertelsman in Kentucky scheduled a hearing this Friday to determine whether the Veterans Affairs Department should revise its offer. His order on the credit monitoring was issued late last Friday.

    The suit seeks free monitoring and other credit protection for an indefinite period as well as $1,000 in damages for each person -- or $26.5 billion total -- in what has become one of the nation's largest information security breaches.

    [snip]

    More here:
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...offer_to_vets/

    Or TinyURL version:
    http://tinyurl.com/oz88f
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