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Thread: Bachelors of Science in Information Security

  1. #11

    Is this the reason you got on my back for going back to school.

    I've had 0 school training and yet I single handedly run a 40 machine win network over 2 vpn connected locations, have custom designed all of our process and order software and designed and maintained our eCommerce site which does mid 7 figures a year.

    Believe me it is not what I call fun having to go back to school, but my job is requiring it since now business is an important part of being a Security Officer for a bank and we all know how risk management and business processes are an important role for a bank.

  2. #12
    I'd rather be fishing DjM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    The Great White North
    I don't think Zigar was getting on your back, he was just pointing out what more of the people that are doing the hiring (like me) these days are starting to look at. A piece of paper is nice, but it really doesn't show me what you can do or have done, I look at the experience. My company has a policy to where we are suppose to hire people with degree's or certs, I am the only person who is the exception to that rule, I hire the person that can do the damm job.


  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    geez... netsec

    that's 2 threads from you i've seen today that you've taken offense to something that was not said in any way meant to be taken as a flame...

    you'll need a bit thicker skin around here me thinks

    now to your point

    firstly..I was relating my experience as someone who might be hiring some person (or perhaps you) For the most part, I do not care about a piece of paper. If that piece of paper taught you the skills to answer the questions I'm going to ask and the situations I deal with everyday then that's great. It was worth it. Otherwise, my company is not a corporate monolith where you (not -you-, the employee) can hide amongst the cubicles and get by by not being noticed. Your paper will not save you.

    Secondly, You did post that courses were worth 4 "Credit Hours". To me that says hours, but I don't know how the schooling system works wherever you are so that's why I qualified it with "if i read that correctly" FWIW I know there are computer courses that people (who have applied to work for me) take only DO offer 4 hours instruction per subject and those are specifically not worth the paper they are written on.

    Lastly it sounds like you're pissed at having to get this peice of paper...well I'd be too but hey, if it's what you want to do (your current job) then you do it. Of course Five years of real world without the cert would likely get you a job a my company

    (ps...I could have negged you for that post but hey I've got a thick skin..been here a long time...been in IT longer...)
    I used to be With IT. But then they changed what IT was. Now what I'm with isn't IT, and what's IT seems scary and weird." - Abe Simpson

  4. #14
    Some Assembly Required ShagDevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Believe it or not, we're just trying to help you out through our own experiences. Some of us think you should get a degree, some of us may not. Zigar was by no way or means trying to insult you, nor was I or anyone else here. We're just telling you how things are from our perspectives.
    Leave it to the damn IT professionals to be *****s (although we're paid to be *****s ). Seriously though, your program looks good. I don't see any harm in following that curriculum. It's ultimately up to you though. No matter what you choose to do, good luck.

    Business degrees pretty much suck
    The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his - George Patton

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Isn't it a chicken and egg situation? If employers want to hire folks who have experience, how do they gain that experience without proving that they know some basics? It's all very well having a home setup with a couple of PCs set up with a router that you administer but how do you get your hands on a big system to prove, and improve, your abilities?

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Originally posted here by Ignatius
    Isn't it a chicken and egg situation? If employers want to hire folks who have experience, how do they gain that experience without proving that they know some basics? It's all very well having a home setup with a couple of PCs set up with a router that you administer but how do you get your hands on a big system to prove, and improve, your abilities?
    The helpdesk.
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  7. #17
    The curriculum seems to be best a college/university can be these days with technology related degrees.

    My vote for you is to get the degree, otherwise you might (not always) hit a glass ceiling career-wise that can only be broken by a college degree. Which is not right IMO but sometimes that's how it is.

    Incidently, I have done a fair amount of hiring of tech pros in my time and never pass up a resume just because they dont have a degree.

  8. #18
    That does sound true, but in my case if my job is to pay for it and I'm only 2 years away from getting it why not.

  9. #19
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
    Join Date
    Oct 2002

    If your job requires it to advance then get it... But, as others have related I will relate a similar vein. I had Human Resources locate any phrase containing the words "degree" and "required" in the same sentence in all job descriptions for the IT department and have it either totally removed or replaced with a phrase indicating that any kind of degree might be "nice" but it surely isn't required... trust me... it isn't... experience in the real world is...

    Just adding to the consensus here... not starting any wars...
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    I have to think the people that don't think there is value in a bachelor's degree don't work in the the large corporate world. In our IT organization a lot of our techs have in excess of 25 years experience and have masters degree's or MBA's. I'm talking about technical people here, not just the managers...

    You would be very hard pressed to end up making in excess of $100k a year without atleast a bachelors degree. I'm sure if you look at the numbers most people making in excess of 6 figures have masters.

    If you are ok with being a system administrator for a small company and making 45k, the degree is worthless. But if you have experience and the degree you will find a lot more higher paying opportunities are available. You have to remember that in most large companies, the actual hiring manager only has about a 25% input into who is hired. Most of the decisions are made by HR people. And they love certifications and degrees because they don't really know how to quantify experience.

    I would say that if you have several years of experience, and already have some certifications, a bachelors in business, network/security management, or CIS/MIS of some sort is absolutely essential to make career advancements.

    If you know that all you want to be is a tech, and you don't ever want to have any more responsibility than replacing that bad hardware, upgrading software, or installing patches, it certainly isn't critical. I would always be wary of the people that say it is completely pointless, or the people that place undue emphasis on any form of learning. All learning is good learning.

    Just another point.. The type of degree, as some people have said, is sometimes irrelevant. I've talked to many recruiters that prefer to deal with people that have a bachelors in liberal arts, with experience and IT certifications over a person with an IT BS, experience and certs. The reason being that many recruiters feel that people with non technical degrees are usually more people oriented, and can handle difficult human interactions better. Which is probably true more often than not. I've come across plenty of techs that have absolutely no people skills. If you don't put them in a job where they are locked in a room with some computers and a soda machine, the can't handle the human interaction.

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