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Thread: Ya Gotta Wonder...

  1. #11
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
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    This was bound to happen and the abduction of the two soldier's was the proverbial "straw" that broke the camels back (appropro eh!), ever since Israel left with their tails between their legs (according to the Hezbollah) in 2000, the south of Lebanon has been a crisis waiting to happen.The UN security forces positioned in that sector were incompetant in reining in the Iranian backed terrorists that were backed at one time by the Syrians, Isreal gave the democratically elected Lebanon Government 6yrs to rid this pestering festation, they failed in this task and now they want Israel to pull back.Right.....Israel have stated, if the Government of Lebanon can take back control of the South then Israel will pull back and stop, the ball is squarely in their court...


    I believe the US position is the correct one, they have always backed Israel since 1947, and they aint going to stop now because France and other's say they should..the UN is corrupt, everyone forgets that that the Arab world has yet to fully embrace the fact that Israel is a sovereign Nation unto itself and therefore has every right to defend itself.

    It would be no different if Mexico suddenly decided to lob a few rockets into Laredo, and sit back and rely on the UN to step in if the US lobbed a few back Lol....right....

    I believe what is coming is a combined effort to finally stamp out the Syrians and Iranians, or at least crush the Hamas and Hezbollah and get it done....the Israeli's have had to live day after day with this crap from Southern Lebenon, they are finally fed up....and as Bush stated the country of Lebanon since kicking the Syrian's out has grown into a small democratic state and this may help them fully get there, if the terrorist's are taken out...

    As for rescuing nationals, it should be inherent that the responsible Governments try to assist in the evacuation of their people, if I am not mistaken, they have probably paid their share of taxes too, and it's not that much of a cost to send in Naval ships, they are there anyway's and all they are doing is ferrying them to Cyprus 150 miles away....it's not like some mass exodus fleeing along roads or any exit....these evacuation methods that the embassies or consulates will be doing have allready been planned long before this incident, maybe because of the recent peaceful times there, they probably didn't realise the amount of people stuck there. As for Canadian's being there, I would bet the majority are of Lebanese descent and this is the time of year they all go back to Lebanon for a couple of Months vacation.They fully understand the risks of going back each year.
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  2. #12
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
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    If it's the middle east, I think it's because the Israeli's are upset that two of their soldiers were caught on the wrong side of the border
    And there is the proof of your naivety...

    This is occurring in the middle east right now because the G8 summit was about to tell Iran to organize themselves or start walking down the "Iraqi Road". They didn't want that process to start because it restricts the time they have to get themselves a deliverable nuke so they needed a diversion. What better diversion than to take your "paid lackey" aka. Hezbollah, and make Israel start throwing their weight around. Since the UN is so anti semite it was obvious that the front page stories would be about Israel not Iran. Mission accomplished with the possible side effect of starting a major conflict in the region that pulls in the USA thus confirming it's "Great Satan" image... As to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers being the perfect "trigger" - think back, or google if you are too young, to the Israeli airman some 20 years ago... I couldn't have organized this better myself... if I tried... It's just soooo perfect...

    You need to start looking at things as part of "a whole" rather than individual "incidents"... You'll never be good at computer security if you don't...
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  3. #13
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    Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
    And there is the proof of your naivety...

    This is occurring in the middle east right now because the G8 summit was about to tell Iran to organize themselves or start walking down the "Iraqi Road". They didn't want that process to start because it restricts the time they have to get themselves a deliverable nuke so they needed a diversion. What better diversion than to take your "paid lackey" aka. Hezbollah, and make Israel start throwing their weight around. Since the UN is so anti semite it was obvious that the front page stories would be about Israel not Iran. Mission accomplished with the possible side effect of starting a major conflict in the region that pulls in the USA thus confirming it's "Great Satan" image... As to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers being the perfect "trigger" - think back, or google if you are too young, to the Israeli airman some 20 years ago... I couldn't have organized this better myself... if I tried... It's just soooo perfect...

    You need to start looking at things as part of "a whole" rather than individual "incidents"... You'll never be good at computer security if you don't...
    That's your opinion on why this is happening... interesting... but I disagree...

    The middle east has always been war torn... no one can dispute that... but I'd like to believe a relatively fragile equalibrium was being maintained... With the "capture" of the two soldiers the equalibrium was upset... and in 20 years the rest will be history...

    If I looked at things as a whole then I'd be spouting off too many conspiracy theories and I'd just get myself called Anti-American again...

    As for the Israeli Airman... All I've learned is that the Israeli government is willing to release known terrorists in order to save drug lords but refuses to work to bring home their own military http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2005/101605a.htm

    Peace,
    HT

  4. #14
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    Originally posted here by HTRegz
    EvilMoo: You don't want to pay the small sum of money to rescue these people but you're ok with your country giving 3 Billion in Aid to Israel every year?

    4 -- I don't think it's a matter of people wanting the US to act (based on what I've read and seen and my opinions)... I want the US to stop pushing this war on... I'm reminded of seeing a guy being jumped... Most nations are like that guys girlfriend, begging the attackers to stop... while the US is standing there cheering the fight on and occasionally throwing their own punches.

    Peace,
    HT
    Actually, yes. I am ok with sending 3 billion to Isael every year. It's not really that I object to having the money spent, it's that they ridicule the government for not saving them from their own stupidity and poor choices. It's the principle of the thing. If they quietly accepted the aid, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Also, much like Dalek's comment, most of those over there are of either Lebonese decent, or originally from the area but migrated. They more than anyone are aware of the risks, and took them anyway. Not only that, but any of them could have left the country before any of this mounted. They chose to keep them and their loved ones in danger, yet they cast away their own blame onto someone else. How insolent!

    (As you might expect) I can't agree with that analogy in the slightest. I believe the official stance of the US has been, "Israel has the right to defend itself, however we wish that it would show restraint and be mindful of the fragile democracy in Lebanon." or something to that direct effect. A far cry from seeding violence, and even further from throwing "ocassional punches".

    I'll coincide my own analogy with yours. An assailent getting his arse handed to him by the innocent man he repeatedly tried to stab to no avail. The policemen then gather around and meekly tell the defender he's done enough, while passively looking at others to step in even though they have the full power and responsibility to do so.
    \"Greatness only comes at great risk.\" ~ Personal/Generic

  5. #15
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    HT~

    nihil: While I agree with you... to come out and say that would only make me more Anti-American and cause more people to attack me for attempting to start up a discussion... I'm actually surprised no one else wants to discuss this..
    I am not anti-American, in fact I am extremely pro-American. My concern is rather that they have a government that seems to have "lost the plot" in some areas?

    It is the kind of mortification that you feel when you see a very good friend make a fool of themselves in public? They are wrong, and you know that they are.

    If Guantanamo Bay and the shipping of captives from banana republic to banana republic were to happen in the UK it would literally bring the government down. And that party would have no chance of re-election for at least 50 years (just look at our Liberal Party and how they have suffered for their mistakes in Ireland...............over 80 years ago?).

    We may not have a written constitution, but we have a damn fine idea of democracy and the due process of law.

    I would simply ship them back to Afghanistan, to a nice little kangaroo court of my choosing................. if "the locals" deal with it, then it has to be OK..............in fact, I would never have brought them out of Afghanistan in the first place

    Anyone remember the IRA terrorist cell in Gibraltar?..................our SAS boys rubber-bagged the lot of them............ no messing about, just deal with it..................hell, they weren't there on their summer vacation, were they?

    As for Israel, they are being shot at...............they shoot back? I see no problem there. If you cannot stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.

    As for the US, they are not exactly stirring up the Israelis to cause trouble are they?............ Iran and Syria certainly are stirring up the $h1t, and those countries are where you will find Saddam's WMD if you are really interested.

    The French and the Russians......................they are just looking after their armaments industries?...............................

  6. #16
    4 -- I don't think it's a matter of people wanting the US to act (based on what I've read and seen and my opinions)... I want the US to stop pushing this war on... I'm reminded of seeing a guy being jumped... Most nations are like that guys girlfriend, begging the attackers to stop... while the US is standing there cheering the fight on and occasionally throwing their own punches.
    First I thought you were not going to go the way of insults, thats a passive aggressive one.

    Anyway, since you ask. I beleive that the way Israel is handling the conflict is superb. It appears that for them talking about the issues is done, didnt work, and now its time for the metal to meet the meat... It looks like to me they are at war not a political convevntion. Their not posting troops to guard a rock concert. If all they did was position their troops and make them play 'rent a cop' then it might as well be the US doing the job...

    No I don't promote war, war is a horrible thing. But when it comes down to it, when at war, destroy the other guy, no quarter given.

  7. #17
    AOs Resident Troll
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    If all they did was position their troops and make them play 'rent a cop' then it might as well be the US doing the job...
    heheheheheheh

    I think every country has the right to defend themselves....

    the lebanese government should be reigning in the Hezbolah..and if they cant...Israel will do it for them.

    Personally...I still dont get these religous wars....my god is better then your god shite



    MLF
    How people treat you is their karma- how you react is yours-Wayne Dyer

  8. #18
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    Originally posted here by spamdies
    First I thought you were not going to go the way of insults, thats a passive aggressive one.

    Anyway, since you ask. I beleive that the way Israel is handling the conflict is superb. It appears that for them talking about the issues is done, didnt work, and now its time for the metal to meet the meat... It looks like to me they are at war not a political convevntion. Their not posting troops to guard a rock concert. If all they did was position their troops and make them play 'rent a cop' then it might as well be the US doing the job...

    No I don't promote war, war is a horrible thing. But when it comes down to it, when at war, destroy the other guy, no quarter given.
    I'll answer both you and EvilMoo in the same post ... first.. I don't call that an insult... or even a passive agressive insult... that's my analogy...

    Bush said to israel "Don't stop attacking until they release the two soldiers" That's egging on the fighting... that's definately not saying "ok he's had enough" but not really do anything... That's more like the rest of the Security Council who's asking for a ceasefire in my opinion..

    EvilMoo: I also fail to see how you could call Israel "Innocent" in all of this..

    I agree with mlf that every country has a right to defend themselves... This isn't defense however... it's aggression... now... There's a big difference...

    Peace,
    HT

  9. #19
    I think they would listen to Bush, just as much as they listened to the UN, or anyone else for that mater. And by the way, I have never seen anyone standing around a fist fight says " cant you just talk about it" mabey they will find a point when they can talk. Until then, I just only hope the "innocents" in beruit heeded the warning to get out, that was given.

    http://www.coxandforkum.com/

  10. #20
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
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    This isn't defense however... it's aggression...
    HT:

    Since 9/11 you have clearly shown that you have neither the intellect nor the intention of _ever_ being able to distinguish the difference between the two.

    Your problem stems from the lack of education the youth receive today... Particularly the teaching of critical thought and, dare I say it, history - even history that takes place as we speak. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Israeli's have withdrawn from the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and South Lebanon in the last 5-6 years on the assumption that their actions will lead to a cessation of hostilities in each region. You conveniently forget that the Palastinians dug a tunnel a half a mile long from their side of a border to the Israeli side to kidnap the initial Israeli soldier for no apparent reason. You conveniently forget that, as Israel reacted to that unprovoked attack on their sovereignty, Hezbollah chose to attack from Lebanon and kidnap two other Israeli's despite the fact that what was taking place with the Palastinians had nothing to do with and incurred no territorial incursions in Lebanon. You conveniently forget that, under International Law, any country has the _right_ to defend it's citizens and it's sovereign territory in any way it sees fit as long as it's acts do not cause physical harm to other sovereign nations. You also conveniently forget that your beloved United Nations condemned Hezbollah and demanded it's disarmament in a "resolution", (1551 I believe), several years ago and have done nothing to enforce it. You conveniently forget that just the other day, despite Hezbollah proclaiming responsibility for numerous terrorist acts, (attacks on US embassies across the world, attack on the US Marine Barracks, several aircraft hijacked or blown from the sky etc. etc. etc), your precious *****ing United *****ing Nations just said that they don't really have enough evidence to determine whether or not Hezbollah are a terrorist organization.

    Tyler... You don't "conveniently forget"... There are two possible reasons for your stances regarding the USA's foreign policy and war...

    1. You know exactly what you are saying and have no moral basis nor fibre. Thus you are a lying SOB stirringn the sh1t for the sake of it.

    2. You are a retard... Dumber than sh1t... and spouting your unadulterated crap under the misplaced impression that people believe the same as you.

    It really doesn't matter which it is... Your incessant juvenile, uneducated, emotional outbursts have shown me that, while you _might_ have a future in computers, any attention given to you shoud be limited by those who's IQ exceeds about 85....
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

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