Where is the underground economy?

[nihil]

OK folks, joking apart................ the question does have some validity?

This "underground economy" I suspect really means "black economy", using the terminology used when I studied economics way back in the last century (and milennium )

This is where people "trade" goods and services so as to remain off the "radar" of taxation authorities.

A crude example off the top of my head would be something like: "I drive your kids to school along with mine................you mow my lawn" In that scenario, you save time or the price of a taxi, and I save the cost of a gardener

Or, I repair your computer, and you fix my car ( for Morgana~ read "wine")

Good comment by westin........................ e-bay and similar "auction" sites, are the manifestations of this sort of economy. Otherwise there are specialist sites for product classes............. classic motorcycles, cars, boats and such.

I think that the confusion is due to misunderstanding this sort of activity as "underground" when it is really just a modern extension of the old "barter system"

As a bit of background, we have "capital gains tax" in the UK......... so I have this old antique (no! my wife is 7 years younger than me) and I sell it for $500,000............... but it was only worth $100,000 when I inherited it. That means I have to pay 40% on the $400,000 "profit" that I have made.

Another concept is "trading" ....... if I refurbish old cars, motorcycles and the like and sell them on e-bay or whatever, I stay off the "radar" as a trader?

Just remember it was the IRS that sent Capone to Joliet............ not the FBI

[phishphreek]

Nihil: In your first examples, we call that bartering.
I do that quite often with computer services.
(You know, beer and pizza and a copy of *.mp3, *.ogg, *.flac and *.wma in exchange for removing spyware or something of that sort.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter_(economics)

[JPnyc]

The original post smacks somewhat of that familiar tune "Prelude to a Spam". We'll know if shortly someone comes along, also posting here for the 1st time, who has a miraculous answer in the form of a program or website or network. In some cases, from the same IP as the original author.

[Cider]

Haha

[morganlefay]

yes the OP has sincce dropped off the face of earth...

maybe he\she\it actually googled something...or dug deep

yes Westin and Nihil have a point..ebay...ya think everyone declares that as income..

although gut says OP was looking forr something more sinister

MLF

[fourdc]

I hope I don't have to invite the IRS to my next yard sale!

[skiddieleet]

yall are silly

[nihil]

Hi, ddddc,

You raise an interesting point there

Over here we don't have "yard sales": we have "jumble sales", for charitable organisations, and "car boot sales", for private individuals.

Our "H.M. Customs and Revenue" (the equivalent of your IRS) attend the car boot sales along with the Police and "Trading Standards Officers".............. they are looking for contraband and counterfeit items.

Obviously, the charitable sales are of no interest as they wouldn't compromise their charity status selling counterfeit (pirated) stuff, and they are non-taxable.

The basic rules for taxation are that you have to make a "profit".......... most stuff sold in the yard or car boot sales are sold well below their original cost, so there is no taxation exposure

E-bay is a different issue, as people use it to "trade" in the retail business sense....................... you can bet that it is monitored by the forces of darkness, just like the small adverts in newspapers and magazines

EDIT: In my experience the best place for the "black economy" are local bars and your place of work, or that of your friends and family. I believe that this is called "networking" in the USA?

[cgkanchi]

I am sure there are some gullible fools who actually trade on IRC too. But I can't imagine giving out the information to allow anyone to actually complete a trade (credit card number, bank account details or even postal address for mailing a cheque) on a network that is plaintext and allows the network opers to pretty much monitor everything on it. I have been a part of the "underground" IRC scene in the past, and from my experience, it's most of the "goods" provided (software, books, movies, games, etc.) are all provided free on high bandwidth university connections...

Cheers,
cgkanchi

[nihil]

Hi cgkanchi,

Off topic, but did you watch that "strange animals" programme on UK TV last night?

The weird, Indian, fish eating crocodile?............... I was pretty sure it was good ole Romulus Whitaker who was involved?

As in the "Snakes of India" book and the King Cobra conservation project?

Cheers,