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Thread: AO - Max security for a connected world

  1. #241
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    Go ahead and open a publishing house and ask authors to submit their work for free in the hope they might win $50 and see how long your doors stay open.
    Most publishers get unsolicited submissions all the time. Most are rejected.

    I'm really not sure what to think about your stance, Eg... What would it take for you personally to write a tutorial for AO? If your answer to that question even remotely sounds like "I would never, under any circumstances, write a tutorial for AO", then your "contributions" to this thread are moot (unless, and this wouldn't surprise me, you really feel like you're some sort of union leader, standing up for the rights of those who aren't language-endowed enough to make their own points - problem with that, of course, is that those wouldn't be able to write a tutorial anyway).

    If you want to set precedents, why don't you go do it at your own place and save us all a bunch of headaches

    (And stop editing your posts 3 times! )

  2. #242
    T̙͓̞̣̯ͦͭͅͅȂͧͭͧ̏̈͏̖̖Z̿ ͆̎̄
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    I don't edit out, I edit in

    Most publishers get unsolicited submissions all the time. Most are rejected.
    True, but they pay for the ones they do accept...all of them...not just one.

    and this wouldn't surprise me, you really feel like you're some sort of union leader, standing up for the rights of those who aren't language-endowed enough to make their own points
    Probably as a result of decades of working in and for charities...I'm naturally inclined toward the ' little ' guy.

    If you want to set precedents, why don't you go do it at your own place and save us all a bunch of headaches
    We already have

    And why would I save you the headaches...you'd miss the opportunity to knock heads. I used to love our discussion/arguments...back when you really tried to have one.

    As for tutorials...I would not be opposed to writing a tutorial on something I know about for a profit-based site...provided I was duly compensated for it.
    Last edited by Egaladeist; March 21st, 2008 at 05:43 PM.

  3. #243
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    I could pull out the easy arguments and just be done with it, if you really want... I could, for example, look up the number of tutorials you have written for AO (just kidding... I don't actually have to look that up - I already know!), and then compare the value of your suggestions to the value of suggestions made by folks with dozens of tutorials under their belt. But then I'd have to "really try"

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by intmon
    That said, we're doing what we can, based on suggestions from the members here, to improve the site. So you can either participate and be a part of the solution, as they say, or you can just gripe and, well, NOT be a part of the solution. If you choose to publish at TAZ, no problem--we hope to see you here when you next return.
    I'm not griping, I'm sharing a point of view. I personally can't publish the mentioned articles here due to the rules. And I suspect alot of members won't write articles due to the rules. But as you said, that's how AO has to roll now, so my point of view is of no use to you. I'm not trying to be a pain in the bum though.

    Untill just now

    I always liked the drama here. I'm not even kidding. Computer security alone is soo boring.
    Double Dutch

  5. #245
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    I could, for example, look up the number of tutorials you have written for AO
    And why would I...given the comments I have made it shouldn't surprise you that none are there. I would never, under any circumstances, write any tutorial for a profit-driven site and not get paid for it. That's akin to walking into Dupont and offering a day's work for free.

    then compare the value of your suggestions to the value of suggestions made by folks with dozens of tutorials under their belt
    Yes...because this is the way corporations and profit-driven sites on the internet have promoted themselves...when people wake up and realize that they are being taken advantage of by these same corporations that are profiting from their contributions without compensation...

    then...the gravy train will end here too. Like any new fangled thing...at first there's awe...then comes realization.

    And when that comes you'll start seeing the internet corporations having to meet the same requirements as their land-based cousins. You want it...pay for it.
    Last edited by Egaladeist; March 21st, 2008 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #246
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    You've been "consulting" AO for some 40 months now on a diversity of issues without compensation... sucker


  7. #247
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    I guess, in a way, you could say that...but even in real life I don't get paid for my opinions.

  8. #248
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egaladeist
    Come now JPnyc...I realize you have to walk the corporate line...you're an employee of the company and an administrator of their forums...but you know how ridiculous it is and how hypocritical it is for a for-profit corporation to ask for people to ' donate ' to the company's welfare.

    For one thing the offer of $50 is a ' recent ' development caused primarily through this thread and it only applies to the few that get awarded it...if 100 people submit tutorials in the stated time frame only one gets the $50...the rest get squat.

    It amazes me how it almost seems like ' internet corporations ' expect to get contributions for free and people are actually stupid enough to go along with it thinking it's OK. That's like Ford opening up a Plant in Detroit asking Detroitonians to come and donate their time, resources, and knowledge for free while it keeps all the profit.

    Yes...the revenue is distributed among staff, shareholders, etc...but that's also true of every business that trades on the market.,,it has nothing to do with asking for people to donate ' free ' services.



    Please...what does paying fair market value have to do with " forced to work within, in a corporate structure "? Having a corporate structure does not in any way prevent the corporation from paying ' fair market value '.

    That would be impossible for me to say with any certainty unless I could determine from your books how much this site's revenue is dependent upon member-driven content vs other factors. If as you say the content drives the site traffic not, for instance, corporate promotions or advertising for the site, then $50 is not enough.

    I will however grant you that it is NOT your responsibility to offer anything...it is the contributors responsibility to evaluate how much they think their time and effort is worth and ensure that they get it. If someone spends 3 hours on a tutorial it is up to them to determine it's worth. And if you're not willing to pay then they should go elsewhere.

    This is a business JupMed is running...and like any business if you want something you should pay for it...but...if people are willing to pony it up for free so that the corporate wallets can get fatter at no cost to them...

    well...what can you really say to that.

    At any rate...a multi-million dollar corporation cannot justify getting and or expecting free donated content...it is NOT a charity...

    but...P.T.Barnum would be proud.
    And those that aren't accepted don't get published, where's the conflict? Every forum on the Internet functions because people answer questions of their own free will, and they don't do it for money. They do it because they want to. Now this is a little different from writing a tutorial, but it's the way forums function.

    That's an evasion. The sites worth has nothing to do with it. You're the one who brought up fair market value. The wealth or poverty of those shelling out the money has no bearing on fair market value. You don't charge on a sliding scale based upon the depth of your clients pockets, and call it fair market value. Fair market value is determined by what the market overall is paying for a given service.

    As I've said before and will say again, anybody who doesn't want to write a tutorial, should not write one. We have no intention of even attempting to coerce anyone. You don't want to? Don't.

  9. #249
    Senior Member gore's Avatar
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    Am I the only one here wondering what kind of logic makes people complain about 50 dollars for a tutorial when before this there were hundreds of them posted for free and no one complained about not getting paid?

    Seriously now, there is an entire section of tutorials here written by a lot of people and not once were people paid for the majority of them. And now that they might get 50 dollars instead of nothing there is a complaint?

    And for that Detroit comment, lol, yes people in Detroit would LOVE to "volunteer" free time for a company. Not much would be left when they were done but they'd volunteer for free just fine.

    If it makes everything all better we could just say tutorials from certain people remain free and don't get anything for it but APs like before. Would that be better? Because no one ever complained when all they got were green dots. But now that they might get green paper there is a problem... I'm still trying to figure that part out.

    Corporate or not tutorials on AO have always been free and no one complained about it. If some people giving APs means more than 50 dollars, then I can solve this right now:

    Post your own, and if it's good, I'll take your 50 dollars and give you 300 APs. Deal? (That's only one assignment for me so it's even less work).

  10. #250
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Hmmmm,

    This makes me think of newspapers........... you write an article, and you get paid................. you write a letter to the Editor and you might get the right to have your opinions published?

    Over here, some of the newspapers will give a small cash or book token award for the best letter of the day/week.

    I would guess that on forums, the "tutorials" are viewed like letters to the editor?


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