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Thread: AO - Max security for a connected world

  1. #11
    Right turn Clyde Nokia's Avatar
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    Aug 2003
    Button Moon
    That's the problem one is posting anything and the mods aren't encouraging anyone to post..or even posting themselves

    Most know why I don't come here much now-a-days, and I can say I know at least 5 other old 'senior members' (not people who are members of the TAZ either) stay away for the same reason....certain Mod's here should not be mods, whether due to lack of Technical knowledge *cough* Spyder*cough* or due to a general 'my way or no way' attitude over the members *cough* Gore, Nihil*cough* - it's no coincidence pretty much all the regular posters who used to hang out here went away at the same time......when Nihil, Gore and Spyder where Modded and started swinging the reins of power over all the lowly membership from whence they came...

    What's the use of having 7 + mods on a forums that sees about 15 new posts a week when the majority of them don't encourage new discussions or add decent content... it just doesn't make sense to me...

    All IMHO of course...

    Tutorials used to be the backbone of AO and what pulled new people many mods here are capable of writing a decent IT related tutorial......I'd say about many current regular posters are capable of writing one...probably not that many? Maybe this is why AO is not as popular as it used to be?

    It's OK saying the membership will dictate where the forums goes and the search engines will index accordingly, but the people who run the site need to come up with the ideas to attract the members who are going to post in the first place...
    Last edited by Nokia; February 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 PM.
    Drugs have taught an entire generation of kids the metric system.


  2. #12
    Senior Member isildur's Avatar
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    Feb 2003
    It isn't just here though. Several of the groups I belonged to 10-15 years ago have pretty much all fallen to the way side. Many of us were younger, with more energy, more curiosity, more patience for others than now. Answering the same or similar questions over an over got old, turned into RTFM and SFTW and now are just ignored. Now instead of spending hours chatting on irc, hotline or message boards, we may chat for a couple minutes every week or so on AIM or email. At least that's what I have experienced.
    Only trust Pipe-smoking Penguins.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Here's my two cents... which don't count for a whole lot since I've been absent for a while... although in away my absence is directly related.

    When I first discovered AO, it was great... I was in high school and therefore interested in both the white-hat and not-so-white-hat sides of security. When I went to college, it was even better... I could share what I was learning.. I could learn more, and I could look for assistance if I needed it. With my first job, I had plenty of free time... I was a sys admin for a small company... even more to share... Now I'm busy... the last two months in particular... I find it very hectic.

    As part of my job I have to stay up to date with what's going on... The latest theories, discoveries, etc... I do this by reading blogs... When I come to AO or to TAZ Forum... I get to read someone's posting (and quite often misinterpretation) of a news article on someone's original research (which is on that individual's blog). I don't think just AO is affected... I think every forum has been affected by this.

    Another aspect of it is personal branding... when I post interesting discussion points on my blog / the corporate blog... I'm further branding myself and putting my name out there... when I post here, I'm attaching the information to "HTRegz"... something tells me that others are going through a similar situation, where they want to brand themselves, not some handle from when they were a teen.

    I can come across it this way as well... When I blog... I know it's being read by employees at big companies.. by big names in the industry who can give me feedback and actually discuss certain topics.. When I post here... it's read by people who are concerned they are using the correct AV software... two completely different audiences...

    I could cross post, but then people complain about cross posting... I could post only here but then I lose my branding, and my readership to increase AO's readership.

    For me, I want to see technical posts, and I'm fine to write technical posts to share the information... but near the end of when I was posting frequently... every single technical post I made was met by "Who Cares" and blank stares. It's disheartening...

    But let's get right down to it... There's a slump going on... I've been logged back in for 24 hours and that's fairly obvious... No one is making suggestions on how to fix the slump... Let's break this down into Management and Users...

    I'm seeing Management say... "Users pick the content.. it's their fault if there's nothing of interest".
    I'm seeing Users say... "Management needs to drive this forum".

    How about instead of blame... we come up with ways of fixing it...

    Users Side:
    Post more content (easier said than done right)
    Cross post like there's no tomorrow.
    Complain less... Seeing posts complaining about the site is just going to drive people away.

    Management Side:
    Consider paid posters -- Choose a forum direction that either meshes with what the users want, or that goes in a new direction... and get some paid posters to write content.

    Consider a rewards system for tutorials -- Nokia is right.. tutorials used to be a huge part of AO... Whether the reward system is points that can be applied to something, or money... or hosting (I'm sure JupM has quite the data center).. .maybe this will inspire more people to post tutorials... perhaps the same could be done for content.

    Consider (and I know this has been discussed before) private forums -- Not necessarily restricted access based on any criteria but just to limit the "which AV should I choose" questions... and to provide an area with a greater technical focus. If there were technical content here, I know lots of security people I could bring over to check it out... but they aren't going to want to wade through the "My computer is going slow, what should I do" posts. At the same time, if I write a post on 'Attempting to touch vulnerable code functions'. I don't want people asking what a function is and so forth... Why not have AO in two sections... a "Computer Help site" and a "technical site" (even if they aren't separate sites. )

    Joint Efforts:
    Why not form a council? Members, Mods, JupM employees... a combination of the three that work together to decide on a forum direction. When JP ran AO there was a clearly defined direction for the forum... That seems to have disappeared.. now it's a free-for-all that has left everyone unhappy... Why not devise a direction that is agreed upon by everyone.. then members, mods and jupM employees can move forward to that direction...

  4. #14
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    okay, so in an attempt to distill this down as much as possible, the basic complaints are:
    1. No new tutorials
    2. Some issues with moderation
    3. The topics being posted are non-technical or rudimentary in nature

    Feel free to continue that list with anything I missed. The lack of new tutorials is really out of my hands.

    Issues with moderation are very definitely my ballpark and I will address any issues that occur.

    This one really is up to the users. The nature of a forum is an open exchange of ideas between its participants. We provide the forum for the users to make use of it as they see fit, within the limits of legality. I removed the language filters recently added. It was just a lark anyway and intended to be of limited duration.

    I will be sure the editors see this thread so that they can address the issues that are under their control, particularly tutorials and other content.

    As to awards, offhand I don't know what we can offer, but again this is something that is under the editors jurisdiction. I will be sure they see this thread today.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Well before we start dredging up ancient history, let's deal with the way things are now and how to improve them.

  6. #16
    Senior Member gore's Avatar
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    Oct 2002
    OK. I say improving them isn't hard at all. Like I said anyone on here can post any high tech related thread they want... I popped in one about Linux and BSD VS Windows because of that very reason. Usually that's a soft spot for baiting other members and it worked somewhat but nothing like it should have but there is some OK stuff in that one.

    We could also make a Social Engineering forum. Not sure why there isn't one already or why JP never made one but I think that is also a good idea.

    I also think if some of the people bitching about AO got off their soap boxes and on their hardware boxes and posted things they like we wouldn't be hearing about it as much. I mean it takes the same amount of time to post "AO needs better posts and the mods are bad guys except for like 3" as it does to say "This is something new in security what do you think?".

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    The only reason I stayed on this site is because I thought it would get a lot better than it was. And I enjoyed helping the people who needed it but it seems like that's all there is to do and it gets old pretty quick. There's really nobody sharing ideas or sparking conversations that really make me think.

    Not to mention you have to walk on eggshells around everyone because god forbid you have a difference of opinion or make a joke here and there. Then your just a troll, which if these people had half a clue they'd know it's flaming and not trolling. OMG, I just said the f-word... Quickly!! Damage control!! Change the subject!! LOCK THE THREAD!!!!! It'd be one thing if that's all I did but I contribute more than the people who complain about it do. And don't bore me with your post count because what's in the past is obviously not in AO's dead present so it's irrelevant.

    It's really easy for those who should be bringing the traffic in (admins, mods) to tell everyone else that they're actually the ones who should be doing it, but I don't come to another site to do the legwork for them. If I felt like putting in work to bring traffic to a forum I'd probably just start my own.

    And when your switching words like h/a.c*k to wear fishnets, that's when AO jumped the shark for me. I tried using it in regards to software, it's origin, and wow did my post look suuuper gay.

    I'll be fading away shortly, there's other places that are actually worth being a part of. The mods can relax and put their flashlights back in their holsters now...

  8. #18
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Admins and mods don't "bring in" traffic. Search engines do. And as I've already said 10 times, what is posted to the forum is what will return in searches and it will bring similar traffic.

    What exactly do you think can be done by the admins and mods to bring in traffic? The site is already decently ranked in the various major search engines. We are not obscure in the least. That's the best we can do.

    As for reaction to profanity, it depends on the degree. The example you gave will always be censored on any large forum that a company publishes. What some users don't seem to understand is, what you may say to your coworker in the office when the two of you are frustrated with some technical issue, does not fly on the public Internet where anyone, regardless of age can see it. When you're here, you're not in private.

  9. #19
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Jeez, the fishnets thing was just a joke. Lighten up. Just because it's a technical forum doesn't mean we can't smile occasionally. I'm sorry if you didn't find it funny, but it's been removed anyway.

  10. #20
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Let's stay on the topic

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