Ant-iAmerican-ism

[lord_darkside_x]

yeah.... i get nailed with negs for this (thankfully there are people who gave me greenies as well....) but i love the people who gave neggs but didn't have the balls to say anything in the forum about there opinions.

and for all the people who gave me negs... you mostly misunderstand...

#1- i love america, but i don't have to agree with anything that they do. i have a right to disagree...

#2- patriotism does not mean that you have to support every thing that our country does... patriotism is not standing around waving a flag or putting up signs that say "Nuke the ****ing Bastards!" patriotism is not blindly following and agreeing with things that you feel is wrong. it is ok to find a problem with things that are done. it is even better if that opinion is expressed and things can be made better. i think it is more patriotic to stand up for what you believe in cause that is what this country is about.

#3- i am not "bitching" about anything... i am just saying, when did america become so closed minded that i can't have an opinion that differs with the majority. i am pointing out that just because i have a different opinion, that does not mena i should be forced to leave the country. the people who believe that have a wrong concept of freedom of speech. freedom of speech does not mean "free until you disagree"

i am not anti-american. i am anti-injustice, i am anti-war, i am anti-forcing nations to conform to our beliefs, i am anti-killing innocent people for others mistakes regardless of whether or not other innocent lives were lost. i don't think that murder jsutifies murder. an eye for an eye never worked. wha are we to judge who deserves to live and die? who are we to decide who is right and wrong? i don't care if people think that makes me unamerican, then maybe we need to consider our view of what american means

[pawn2king]

QUESTION AUTHORITY

[darkewolfe]

Umm is it me or this turning somewhat into a us (THE patriotic) vs. them (THE non-patriotic and/or non US)....ack!

I think the main point (originally at least) was a question of if LDX was the only one getting "highly passionate" responses for his disagreement with the "popular" view here in the US.

Yes, I've had highly energetic discussions over controversial issues, though as of yet noones offered to try and deport me, heh. Personally, I think the responses were a bit over much...BUT...just as it was his right to disagree, they had a right to respond (don't ya love the double edge sword of free speech). Oh, in case yer wondering, I consider myself VERY patriotic..especially when I show I'm willing to allow others to express their opinion, whether or not I agree. Nuff said....

**goes back to his desk, after slipping on a flak jacket and blast mask and shield,**

[jayle]

Patriotism is good, but it should not suspend the thought process. But I have to agree quite a few people will cry "anti-american" in an attempt to drive a point home, even though this country is supposed to be founded on the free expression of opinion.

[Zadok0552]

Originally posted here by Mankan


You either tell lord_darkside_x to shut up and stand for the fact that you oppose your american freedom or you stand by his side for his right to express whatever is on his mind, wether you like it or not. That's what your freedom of speech is all about. Or maybe you just like it when people say what you think is appropriate?

Are you trying to dictate to me? You obviously have no idea of freedom, including my right to express myself in the way that I please. You obviously have NO IDEA of "freedom of speech." Did I hit a nerve? Are you a disrespectful child, like dark, who insults his/her mother and friends? Ansd then PRETENDS to understand what freedom of speech is about! HAH!

[lord_darkside_x]

Are you a disrespectful child, like dark, who insults his/her mother and friends? Ansd then PRETENDS to understand what freedom of speech is about! HAH!

having an opinion does not make me a "disrespectful child." expressing that opinion is not an insult. i did not insult my friends or my mother. maybe you should have read the examples i gave more thoroughly in order to understand what they said. so you understand what freedom of speech is eh? well from the way you are talking it sounds like your definition is: "to be a close minded bigot and not allow any opinion that differs from my own." that is basically what you are saying. you have a right to disagree with me, i will agree with you on that. but i also have a right to disagree with the things that go on in my country, where i am a good standing citizen whose tax dollars are funding these said activities. i have a right to know what is going on and i also have a right to say something when i disagree with the things that are going on. just because you agree doesn't mean that i should not be allowed to express my disagreement. my entire point of this thread was not to say that my opinion is right, nor to say that the people who said the things they said had "no right" to say them. my point was how come there opinions are valid, but mine makes me in league with terrorists and possibly even the devil (depending on who you ask)?

[roccobarbi]

Let me answer also to Guus and sOnIc, all in a single message. As a matter of fact patriotism is a disease of almost any group of people (let me use this term instead of "nation", which is a word I hate as a nonsense) in this (let me say) ****in' (I promise, it's my last bad word in this message) capitalistic world, be they americans, europeans, russians and even afghans. And let me say that I'm saying all this WITHOUT willing to insult any of you, I'm just against patriotism and I'm against patriots only in what concerns their ideas about (their?) nations.
If we speak about WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Etiopia (I don't know the english name), Falklands, Gulf war, Yugoslavia war, and even 9/11 and Afghanistan: who made money (or anything else) out of it? Surely not the people who fought and/or died, be they soldiers, terrorists and victims. What I mean with this confused (I admit it, but I have no time to write a better one now) speech? It's not another nation or group of proletarians, our enemy. It's capitalism, in every form and any nation.
How does it relates to patriotism? Well, I think no one should be patriot because patriotism (and nations themselves) is just a capitalistic stuff.
To use the words of Trotzskji: "I'm the most faithful citzien of my nation, and my nation is the whole world".
By now, that's all folks!
Roccobarbi.

PS: Let's try how much you trust your own ideas. If it's true that you accept and respect other people's ideas, you'll just answer without kicking me out of year.

[Tedob1]

I disagree, patriotism is a natural extension of our herd instinct and causes a willingness to work together for the good of the whole, and it in itself is not evil. It’s a defense mechanism that surfaces in times of peril.

The evil comes when self-serving non- patriotic, politically minded types, decide to drive this herd towards their own end.

When we see this is happening, it's not time to break up the herd, its time to change the leaders.



As far as capitalism being evil, it is. But it’s the lesser of all the evils out there as far as I'm concerned.

What are the alternatives, communism? That’s a joke, the ‘in crowd’ ride in Bentleys and the masses ride bikes, and if you ask for more you’re going against your fellow man and declared a criminal against the state.

Or maybe sheiks are a better idea. Everything belongs to them and everybody else gets nothing

At least under capitalism you stand a chance.

[kitain]

Well, i would like to say some things:

1) Every value taked at it's extreme it's dangerous, it generates obliterance of mind and thought. (I do consider Patriotism an important value)
2) Arrogance is also a decease that strikes deep when the extreme is reached
3) Free speach, free will and freedom itself are utopies. Today every single government utilizes all the ways and means it have to get as most as possible social acceptance and support, the media is playing a deadly row at the same time it is fulfilling it's task at a glance.
Social engineering is used on the most extensive way by "our" elected rulers.
How to actually be able to define right and wrong under such circunstances? Are we able to actually get into a clean and pure environment to think and analyse the right? Is my right yours as well?

Humans are on a learning path, some more mature than others but all on the same way. Maturity comes with living experience and some times pain but not allways related to age.

I agree with LDX as we all should say what, and act as, we believe, but i also understand that there is people not mature enough to understand and accept it.
Also we have to be able to understand and accept our "oponent" believe.

Today the USA is wounded, very deep inside. Today USA is growing more and getting more mature, it is a natural process.
It happened after the civil war, it happened after WWI and WWII. After vietnam.
It happens all over the world.

P.S: sorry for any wrong spelling.

[fr0z3n]

Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
now please don't turn this thread into a discussion of the opinions in the examples for they are just examples. but is it just me or has any one else found this happening to them [/B]

haha.. big? its a bit.. HUGE?