A weather forecast for Baghdad.

[powertoad5000]

I just watched a documentary on TV - very interesting:

THE SECRET WAR: BIO-WEAPONS AND THE CIA is the story of the life and mysterious death of CIA scientist Frank Olson, who worked on secret biological weapons programs and brainwashing techniques for the United States Government.

Forty years after his death, body of former CIA scientist Frank Olsen is exhumed and an autopsy concludes that he was probably the victim of a violent crime. The official version was that he jumped through the closed window of a hotel while being guarded by a CIA agent. His son Eric believes he was murdered by agents because he wanted to leave the CIA.

In 1943, pressured by evidence that the Japanese war machine is vigorously pursuing an horrific chemical and biological warfare program involving terminal experiments conducted upon thousands of Chinese subjects in Manchuria and elsewhere, Camp Detrick is established in Frederick, Maryland as the Army’s top secret center for chemical-biological warfare research. The base is established under the scientific guidance of Dr. Ira Baldwin who invites Frank Olson to join him at Detrick. Frank Olson becomes one of the first civilian scientists to be employed at Camp Detrick.

After the war the US took over the results of German experiments with biological agents on inmates of concentration camps in exchange for protecting the scientists responsible from prosecution. Olson became part of a unit that furthered this research. One of the trials involved releasing an anthrax-like material in San Francisco to chart the possible results of a Soviet bio-weapon attack.
Olson then became involved in Operation Artichoke, a plan to use drugs, torture and brainwashing techniques in order to extract secrets and erase memory. Early experiments were conducted in a CIA base in Germany on prisoners of war or refugees from Eastern Europe who were suspected of being communist spies.

Former Nazi scientists were used on the program, and there seemed to be little concern if death occurred during the course of the experiments. Later, such methods were used to debrief returning soldiers from the Korean War who, as prisoners of war, had confessed to having used biological weapons.

Olson was horrified by what was happening. His wife had told their son that, “Korea really bothered your father.” Former colleagues interviewed in the program imply in the heaviest possible terms that the US did indeed deploy biological weapons during the Korean War. Olson wanted out and consequently was interrogated himself, including being administered LSD, and had an agent assigned to him at all times.

The official version of Olson’s death does not tally with the results of the recent autopsy. The original autopsy was full of lies. Recently mailed anthrax, it is found, originates from the same research centre establishment where Olson worked.

http://www.sbs.com.au/whatson/index.php3?id=54

Absolutely appalling.

America want to jump up and down about bloody WOMD and chemical and biological weapons. Well I, for one, am completely sick of this ****. If the US dramatically decreased their stockpile of WOMD and chem/biol weapons, admitted to previous faults, and apologised for these errors, and then decided to attack Iraq, then fine, I can deal with that. What I can't deal with is this country, that's put up to be the moral leader of the free world, harping on about bloody Iraq and Iraq's chem/biol weapons, when they themselves have done some of the most heinous and disgusting experiments with these weapons, yet aren't willing to come clean about it. Just my $0.02

[4MidgetHitmen]

I agree with you PowerToad... The US has done things in the past that in hind sight ( you know what they say about that) it should not have done... The antrax like substance spread over San Fransisco was influenza c, I beleive, and was released on four occasions... The US government did acknowledge and appoligize for doing it back in the mid-90's I think... Our Government did use former Nazis in this country under operation Paper Clip... They helped us get to the moon among other things... I am not excusing the actions of my governemnt by any means... They experimented on Retardates with radiation and biologics (which pisses me off because I have a brother who is retarded) They used LSD on American soldiers during the Vietnam war which again pisses me off because one of the soldiers they chose was a family member and it screwed him up really good... All that said the times were much different then... During the 1950's and 60's the world teatered on the very brink of nuclear holocaust... The Soviet Union was walling in the Germans, crushing the Hungarian revolt, puting nuclear missles 90 miles from the coast of America, fight wars all over Africa and using chemicals to fight them... The US and our allies had to be ready ro the war we ALL thought was comming... So we all did things that we shouldn't have done... Now we have the Iraqi 5hithead Saddam who is again bringing us to the brink of war and in all likely hood going to push us over the edge... I will say it again... If we do nothing but wait for Saddam to pop a WMD on Isreal, London (via terrorists), New York, Free Town, or anywhere else then you and the rest of the world are going to look at the US and scream "Why didn't you do something about this before it happened... You knew he was seeking WMD and that he would use them as he did in the past. Why didn't you stop this?!?" If we go in and stop him BEFORE he can use WMD agaist us or you or the UK or Isreal the world is going to scream, "why did you do that?!? he didn't do anything to deserve that!" In other words moral leader of the world or not... right or wrong... we (the US) are screwed... No one is going to be fully happy with anything we do... As an American I fully support my President and his conduct of this war... I fully support his use of the military in this war and I will continue to do so until we have won this fight... More than most on this board I have reasons to not want this war... My wife is in the Army and currently deployed in support of it... She will be home in a few weeks and in all likely hood be deployed again within a few months... My kids and I have a lot more to lose in this war then you will ever know yet I am behind it 110% and I will be until the fight is over...

Sorry about the rant Please frorgive me... But this subject sometimes gets my blood boiling...

[Mahakaal]

Originally posted here by 4MidgetHitmen
As such it IS up to us (and our friends in the UK) to make the world a safe place to for everyone... And the rest of the world, as was already stated, will look at the US, the UK, and the rest of the western powers and say, "why didn't you people stop this from happening?" Well that is exactlly what we are going t odo... Stop it from ever happening...

And who will make the World safe from US and the UK
Approximately half a million Iraqi children have died due to the sanctions. An excerpt from a 60 Minutes interview with Former Sec of State Madeliene Albright..

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

I dont care for Saddam or anyone like him, but it's appalling that when its another's country's civilians we conveniently call them "collateral damage", and forget about them. These are real people with real lives just like those people that died on Sep 11. Our dead are not worth more than someone else. They all go into the same ground and leave families behind.

[rcgreen]

In hindsight, it would have been more humane to have aggressively
pursued the war back in 1991 than to have imposed eleven years
of economic sanctions. The invasion of Kuwait was enough moral
justification to occupy Iraq.

That justification has long expired. It's time to stop the saber rattling
and also lift the economic blockade, cancel the "no-fly zones" and go
home. The next time Iraq invades Kuwait, or if they invade Saudi
Arabia, we should stay out of it.

It is ironic that Iraq's society is more liberal and cosmopolitan
than that of Saudi Arabia. Women have more rights there, and
don't have to hide their faces in public.

The neighboring regimes apparently don't want our "protection"
We should tell Saddam Hussein that we will not attack unless
he attacks our vital interests or our allies ie. Israel or Europe.
Anyone else he wants to own, F**K them. After all we can always buy
the oil from Iraq, Money talks bulls**t walks.

[JCHostingAdmin]

Yeah, well IMO, Saddam is B.S with his little attitude. IMHO, he DOESN'T want peace and he DOES want to harm americans or anything at any cost. He is going to try to get anyone he can to help him because he isn't dumb, he know's we will take him out of power. That's JMO.

Oh, and rcgreen, your right, but he has already attacked isreal. Also, by giving suicide attackers' families money for suicide bombings is also sort of an instigated attack.

[xmaddness]

I have opened a conference room where all can share their true opinions without having to worry about AP's. If you would like to join Private Message me and I will send you a key.

[Chuck56]

Missed the private chat. By the time I got there, everybody was gone. Too busy with ESPN Classic network and some old fights. Rocky Marciano in three of his bouts.

[xmaddness]

well keep it going, i'm sure people will go back and visit