*moved* What's up with the weak U.N.?

[phaza7]

Well basically lets see this from a economic standpoint.
France, Germany, and Belgium all have deals with Iraq that were made years ago and they
currently be working on a new deal net worth 52 billion dollars. This is their major supplier
of oil and the 52 billion deal would help their oil and economy these deals where made long before
the US thought to fight the world. So Maybe their leaders are looking at this from a economic standpoint
as France stated

That the US only bring others into matters of their own interest that no one
would benefit from it but them and that only concerns them. But they what the world to help them fight
for there interest. Though when one of us ask the US for help they say we have no interest in that matter.
there is no capital gain in it for us so we won't help you

Which to me is selfish of the US to think like that and yea over half the population is France is muslim now
so is a lot of it's political body but not all that could also have a lot to do with it there alot of muslims in Germany also
more so than none muslims did ya'll not know that over half the population of the World is Muslim(meaning one thatsubmitts to
God). This could play into a major factor of France, Germany and Belgium decisions that were made
also , When Iraq was at war with Iran the US gave Sadaam tons of nukes to help protect from Russian and
to defeat Iran because Iran was back by Russia(which was the Cold War time) After that war and the fall
of Russia the US told Sadaam now be a good boy and give us our nukes back and Sadly he said no this
is how the US now that he still have nukes there because they haven't gotten back nukes they gave him
and believe he might be making more.


there is always two sides to every coin unless you've given a wooden nickel.

[neel]

HAlf the world is muslim, half france is muslim ? There are mahy, but not 3 bilion for sure...
The US gave Sadaam tons of nukes ? They gave weapons, I never heard anything about nukes. Were did you get that from ?

If Bush is going to attack he already planned it to date and time. This saturday in amsterdam, there's a big demonstration of what dutch people think of this war. That means throwing tomato's in US direction or something. You call us pu55y ? Come there and say that to those people. Saturday 1:30 (something) gmt +1, amsterdam op de Dam, in front of the palace. We can expect Bush thoughts on that, if he even noticed... "Awe, they don't like me... I DON'T GIVE A FOCK".

I don't know were it came from, but one of my friends told me this "joke" today. "Yeah, they're going to kill 26 million Iraq people and one baker." "Why one baker?" "You see, noone cares about the 26 million Iraq people anymore."

I'll reply to xmaddness's post later, just had to say something.

[rcgreen]

over half the population is France is muslim now

I doubt it, anyway, half of the MUSLIM world is anti-muslim. (the female half)

[KorpDeath]

AHH. I upset our friends the Dutch, what a shame. I better look out now they might CRY on me or something.

Yeah we screwed everybody didn't we. Damn us, every problem in this whole f**king world is the fault of the U.S. or one of our agencies. Cry me a river. I'm speaking on one thing and you blind freaks can't keep from bird-walking all over the place to show me what a horrible country I live in.

You may not be proud of where you come people, but that's not my fault, nor is it my country's fault.

I digress, oh and trying touse mny own words against me out of context is just another example of how ignorant some of our cannuck friends are. Have you ever seen the Mackenzie Brothers? Closer to the truth than you might want to believe.

There now we trade insult for insult and the world goes around like it always has.

Anybody want to talk about the problem at hand, you know the one. I started this thread about the U.N. being weak in it's resolve, Neg, not NATO. NATO, as far as I'm concerned is a dinosaur and not worth the paper it's written on.

Now you want to tell me about Africa and how we'vre wronged Africa. How about what they do to themselves??? You're right all the infighting and warlording is the U.S's fault, again right...

The Soviet Union never had a more advanced military, never. I'm sorry you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

What exactly is it about the U.S. being chosen to be the police of the world that upsets you? I'll write my Congressman today to ask how hard it would to build a wall around your asses so the "corrupt" U.S. influence can't get to you.....sound familiar?

P.S. oh yeah it's all about the oil.... pfft!! Or it's a MEDIA conspiracy, it's all a big conspiracy to steal their SAND, people. You just have no idea how ridiculous you seem.

P.S.S. Powell told the House International Relations Committee on Wednesday that all 15 nations who voted unanimously in November to threaten Iraq with "serious consequences" if it did not disarm knew they were voting for force as an option.

I'm sure this never happened due to the fact you all believe it's a conspiracy for oil. Believe what you want.

[rcgreen]

May I remind you that the UNSCOM-inspectors themselves where responsible for being kicked out? They were supposed to be weapons-inspectors, not spies for the CIA

..as they say in New York City, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.


If I believed every conspiracy story I'd heard about the CIA, I'd be
afraid to come out from under my bed.

[KPATTE456]

Well Korp.......I was always taught and told that the law is the law and applies to everyone equally; and as far as Iraq attacking another country.....I think that capability has just about been squashed when we went in there the first time. They are going to have a hard enough time defending themselves let alone attacking another country especially with the knowledge that the world armies will annilate them if they even thought about attacking another country. OH and our armies are for our and other countries in the NATO circle , for DEFENSE, and since Iraq isnt declaring war on us (and never did during the last conflict)and that there IS NO WAR ( except for Bushes barely legal war on terrorism, nobody has the balls to say how many international laws he's broken in the last year and things hes done without the approval of all the world powers) , Maybe they ( the military) should be here, defending our borders which seems to be a harder task than blowing another country off the map.
They want to purge countries of evil, we need to start right here, purge OUR country, close our borders and start all over again with some of these new securities they have enacted, since it seemed that ignorance was the cause of 9/11 as much as the terrorists themselves, and if they werent in the country to begin with they never would have been on those planes and would have never hijacked the planes.
OUR government , spy agencies, law enforcement, and imigration athorities , FAILED US and now they are looking to take away from thier failures to little to late and are overseas instead of here.
There are American companies there (Iraq) rebuilding the country from the last war making millions of dollars off the Iraq government, with all thats going on, he (Sadam) isnt even threatening them or thier work. Personally I think that if we dig deep enough somewhere that the companies that were turned down for work there probly have Bush family stock holdings and were turned down just for that reason by Sadam.
Remember something also, the terrorists that are causing all this to begin with claim allegiance with NO country, only thier comitment to the muslim religion world wide and all thier muslim brothers and sisters, they BELIEVE with all thier hearts and minds that they are doing gods work. We just over ran Pakistan going after Binladen, but his home country is Yemen.
Hatred breeds hatred, sure we will probly over run Iraq in the next couple months but think, maybe a new government will be more co operative with the US government but it will surely spawn a group of a couple hundred disidents who will go in hiding and wait for the right time, as did the ones that were responsible for 9/11 to come out of hiding and strike again in retaliation of the US agression. A Government is easy to keep track of because they do things publicly, not lile the "sewer rat " terrorists that hide in the shadows , come out and strike when the time is right, then go back into hiding to strike another day.
Then we will be part of the reason we, our children and our childrens children will have to live with the prospect of terror attacks happening.
You can kill people but you cant kill idealism the same kind of idealism that we used when we fought the Brittish and gained our independence the idealism that took our settlements and turned them into one of the biggest superpowers in the world.
These disidents (as will call them) have the same driving idealism , maybe on a smaller scale than americans. but it is just as driving to them as it is to us.
As to your orriginal post, did you ever think that if any of the european NATO countries felt threatened by Sadam, that they dont have the means to take him out? Russia, Germany, France, all these countries together im sure have more than adequate Military means to take him out in a heartbeat.
The only European country thats realy pushing the issue is England who is riding on the USA's shirt tails in this issue, basicly to show its allegiance to us.
You know , we can debate over and over these issues and find right and wrong to all the aspects discused, especially after uncovering all the underlying aspects,but one fact remains.
The ONLY way our world is going to prevent self destruction is to learn to live in peace , and allow others the same freedoms equally to squash desent.
Every war, is one war closer to the war to end all wars. We arent lobbing cannon balls any more, we have bombs that will lay lands to waste and render them useless for hundreds of years, contaminate our already contaminated atmosphere, germs that can wipe out whole populations. Level headed people can avoid such conflicts, this tactic of "threating " other countries whether it be by military action, govt sanctions, does nothing but escalate; look at the situation with N Korea now. Sure we can wipe them out, but back thier ruler into a corner hes going to strike out, hes already said that they have the right to a pre emptive strike to defend themselves from agression (just as the USA claims right to in its war against terrorism).
Sure his country will be taken, but what if he launches a couple missiles and lands them on our coast in a last desperate act.Sure this is reason he shouldnt have them and we shouldnt either, but you know.....they werent bothering anyone or threating anyone over there. Thier reaction was caused by "sanctions" brought on by the US and other countries which serve no other purpose than try to "starve" them in some way into submission , but the reaction of anyone with a little pride is going to be opposite anyway and to not bend under pressure of a "Big Bully " country.
As i said before.....A tit for a tat...etc....where does it end?

[KorpDeath]

So much for idealism. I'm not saying we should oblitarate every Iraqi from the face of the planet. Maybe you misunderstand me. Or maybe you just read what words of mine you like. I don't care either way. Without war there can be no peace. Without black there can be no white, without day, no night. I'm sorry you haven't advanced enough to realize these simple things. So here's some propaganda for you to read since you need a lesson on who exactly Americans are:::


You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was
actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper, an
offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an
American is, so they would know when they found one: An American is
English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or
Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian,
Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or
Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage,
Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known
as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim.
In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only
difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses. An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he
will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming
to speak for the government and for God.

An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world.
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of
Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person the
pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other
nation in the world in their time of need. When Afghanistan was overrun by
the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to
enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of
September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor
in Afghanistan.

Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best books, the best
music, the best food, the best athletes. But they also welcome the least.
The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired
and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless,
tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America. Some of
them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2002
earning a better life for their families. I've been told that the World
Trade Center victims were from at least 30 other countries, cultures, and
first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General
Toto, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the
history of the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself.
Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place.
They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds
to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

Pass this around the World.

[Singleton, Pamela K.]


I'm not racist, I hate all of them equally. That being said from a german,english, cherokee, heinz 57, special blend, American.

P.S. I'm glad everybody got their punches in while they could. So now I'm going to go relax, have a beer and enjoy my liberties. peace.

[Sick Dwarf]

Originally posted here by KorpDeath
AHH. I upset our friends the Dutch, what a shame. I better look out now they might CRY on me or something.

Yeah we screwed everybody didn't we. Damn us, every problem in this whole f**king world is the fault of the U.S. or one of our agencies. Cry me a river. I'm speaking on one thing and you blind freaks can't keep from bird-walking all over the place to show me what a horrible country I live in.

You may not be proud of where you come people, but that's not my fault, nor is it my country's fault.

I digress, oh and trying touse mny own words against me out of context is just another example of how ignorant some of our cannuck friends are. Have you ever seen the Mackenzie Brothers? Closer to the truth than you might want to believe.

There now we trade insult for insult and the world goes around like it always has.

Anybody want to talk about the problem at hand, you know the one. I started this thread about the U.N. being weak in it's resolve, Neg, not NATO. NATO, as far as I'm concerned is a dinosaur and not worth the paper it's written on.

Now you want to tell me about Africa and how we'vre wronged Africa. How about what they do to themselves??? You're right all the infighting and warlording is the U.S's fault, again right...

The Soviet Union never had a more advanced military, never. I'm sorry you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

What exactly is it about the U.S. being chosen to be the police of the world that upsets you? I'll write my Congressman today to ask how hard it would to build a wall around your asses so the "corrupt" U.S. influence can't get to you.....sound familiar?

P.S. oh yeah it's all about the oil.... pfft!! Or it's a MEDIA conspiracy, it's all a big conspiracy to steal their SAND, people. You just have no idea how ridiculous you seem.

P.S.S. Powell told the House International Relations Committee on Wednesday that all 15 nations who voted unanimously in November to threaten Iraq with "serious consequences" if it did not disarm knew they were voting for force as an option.

I'm sure this never happened due to the fact you all believe it's a conspiracy for oil. Believe what you want.

KorpDeath, you dumb ****. I'm not even going into this one... You should get that yourself. Good Luck with it.

OH, I forgot to comment on the "you lil peeps didnt understand me, read some ****"-post. See previous line.

[KorpDeath]

Then why do you persist in quoting me and saying nothing, if you're not going to "get into it"? I started a spirited discussion of how "some" in the U.N. don't find it necessary to stand by their word and as usual it gets turned into F** you and F** off, etc. etc. Really mature *ICk DWARF.

It's not too damn hard to stay on topic, except for some of the people in this forum. Get your panties all bunched if you want to but the simple fact of the matter is that what needs to be done, needs to be done.

With or without you panzies, it'll get done. I just wnated to find some shred of insight as to why they don't think it necessary to stand by their words and votes. That's all.

I didn't start the whole "Amerca is the land of the bastards" discussion. Nor did I bring Israel or Africa or any of that into it. We'd probably get more intelligently discussed if you'd stay on topic. Unless of course you can't stand by your own words. I mean you are 75% your environment, so that should explain everything...

[sirrahj]

I have to tell you all this... I FEEL THE LOVE! =Ahem=

On the topic of this thread, I believe that the outcomes of Iraq and NKorea will shed more light on whether or not the UN is an outdated (or not ready yet) concept. In theory it is great to believe we could all come together and work things out amongst us, but it is evident that overall we as a global population are ready for such a feat. I had hoped all had all learned lessons from past wars and the like, but it does not appear to be completely so.

Lastly - I believe the UN should be forcing the US to follow through on the 'War on Terrorism" versus NKorea and for sure Iraq. Bin Laden is still running around with a few less bullets in his head than I would like, and it looks like no country will be safe from any future attacks. If I saw the UN forcing us to do that, and hey maybe even have all nations help out a couple more impoverished nations then I would pull my opinion that the UN is not working.

Thoughts?