Gay Equality on TV Controversy...

[RoadClosed]

Mention in this thread of removal of religious icons in public places has sparked my interest to comment.

I see and understand how the Christians want their values and laws to be spread as far as possible. They believe they are righteous and valid and wish everyone to see "the light." I can also see a governmental point of view that separation of church and state is a viable method of governing a wide variety of people with fairness and democracy. Old Europe is an example of why many came seeking this country hundreds of years ago. Even though religious persecution and oppression was not at it’s height in human history, it was still stifling.

I can also see the point where a man or woman who came seeking justice at an establishment that is meant to be unbiased, as in a building housing components of our court system, could see some issues in feeling uncomfortable knowing that possibly personal beliefs could take precedence over law, and the court system become less equalized and balanced. That is an extreme viewpoint but this nation is also founded on the principle of equal justice for all.

Christian minority groups are constantly using the constitution and founding principles of the country to try and bring about change. I fail to understand why…

I mean do they think changing laws will only apply to Christians? How would they feel walking into a court room where the judge is wearing a big Star of David? And their case involved something like accidentally giving someone food poisoning? It may sound good praying while the Ten Commandments are removed from the lobby, but what if it stayed? And next week strict laws of Islam were unfurled and hung in large banners from the ceiling for all to see. They too are the laws of god and make the 10 commandments look tame. Those actions set precedence! And if you think that bothers you, what if your righteous son got confused and was caught stealing at Wall Mart and the prosecuting attorney had a big Crescent Moon setting on his desk while he stared at you with religious contempt? I think of these things everytime I see items like the 10 commandment monument come up. There are thousands of places that could be placed for the public to see, why a judicial building?

Personally I think gigantic Buddha would look cool in the fountain while greeting visitors with his flavor of wisdom, especially with some cool spotlights. Or some roaming cows on the lawn…

[allenb1963]

Next thing you know bballad will be telling us that the pilgrims didn't come to this country to be allowed to worship GOD as they wished. FACE IT, YOU LIBERAL MORON....this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values...if you don't like it, France will certainly grant you citizenship and welcome you with open arms.


Btw....the separation of church and state was intended to keep the government out of the church, not vice-versa.

[keezel]

I don't have much time bc I have to go to church (ironic isn't it?) but

Humm so if we look at the origional documents (constitution, bill of rights.) no mention of god or religion (except to exclude it).

I believe there are over 50, maybe more than a couple hundred references to the Bible in the constitution. Read all the early documents (originals) from when this nation was being formed, and I promise you'll be very surprised by how much Biblical stuff is in there. Even 90% of the stuff Ben Franklin wrote has Biblical references all over it....and he's not even considered a very moral man. G2g, but I'll be back to this conv. tonight for sure!

[RoadClosed]

I never saw bballad's view's as being liberal. Bballad are you a stinking lowbelly crawling, god killing, socialistic liberal ?

I don't think there is any argument that our forefathers were indeed religious persons with great foresight. There are many ingredients that went into the equation that eventually culminated into the founding of our country.

Edit/ I was curious about the constitution and I can't find any references to god the bible and only one to religion, where it states that religious tests will not be required for office.

Here is the document:

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

[powertoad5000]

Originally posted here by THE RADICAL
Surely you will of course claim that these laws of kindness are not soley religious and we're founded under common principle and ethics

Probably the most sensible part of a very nonsensical post. Considering that a great deal of your post was false, could this not then be the case? Your country was founded on Judeo-Christian values, to the extent that these ran parallel to common principles and ethics. It does not mean that the Ten Commandments is the law. A Christian might feel that adultery is wrong, but if someone wants to sleep around, is it any of their business? I would say that adultery and homosexual marriage are similar inasmuch as they are both things which some Christians find distasteful and inappropriate from a religious view - however adultery is legal while homosexual marriage is not.

I don't understand why people think that legal marriage for homosexuals is wrong. If it is a legal construct, which allows several advantages over living as a de facto couple, then it should be available to homosexuals. I don't know why these points are so hard to concede.

Question on marraige, is it a religious instatution or a secular one? if it is a religious one, why do Ihave t obuy a licenese, and why do I get special advantages under tax and insurance laws. If it is religious all legal advantages and disadvantages (includeing legal devorice) should go away.

On the other hand if it is a purly legal contract between two adults then why can't two gay people get married, restricting marraige by gender (if it is a social/legal contract) is discrimination and illigal.

If it is both, well then the US instatution of marrige is unconstitutional as it breakes the seperation of church and state.

No-one's bothered addressing this except for rcgreen. I think it pretty much perfectly summarises why legal marriage for homosexuals should be an option in light of your separation of church and state.

[rcgreen]

adultery is legal while homosexual marriage is not.

No, adultery is not legal, at least not everywhere. In fact you may
find that simple fornication between unmarried people may still
be illegal in some places.

But the issue of homosexual marriage isn't about whether people
will be harassed for homosexual conduct. It is about money.

Many people in the US recieve health insurance benefits from their
employers. Traditionally, these benefits apply to spouse and children.
Free health benefits for homo partners amounts to a lot of money.

You can see why the discussion gets heated.

[aze]

The way I see issues such as the gay marriage, is that the topics get blown out of proportion. Everyone has to live in fear that their comments are politically incorrect. This is a nation of freedom, the freedom to make comments about only straight, catholic, Caucasian males, anything else will be treated as a biased comment. We would all be better off just looking at issues like gay marriage and coming to a rational decision quickly to the best interests of the general population. I personally have no problem with gay people or their want to be married, as long as they don’t flaunt it around in people's faces.

Just my 2 cents

[THE RADICAL]

Probably the most sensible part of a very nonsensical post. Considering that a great deal of your post was false, could this not then be the case?

Lol, I didn't think it was non-sensical at all (whatever that means, probly something bad tho). I think that I was just trying to make a point that you obviously disagree with and are further trying to discredit me by saying that I am somehow false? I think your just mad because the only thing that you found in my post that you stood a fighting chance of debating for was when I said...

Surely you will of course claim that these laws of kindness are not soley religious and we're founded under common principle and ethics

In that post, I was simply stating what I believed to be true and what I believe will happen to our nation if idealists such as yourselves get ahold of it. I find people like you to be hipocritical in nature and I am going to express it whether you like that or not, and I KNOW I am right. It's pretty funny though, I obviously hit a nerve just like that 'Jim' guy with a few and it resulted in a string of posts. Another thing that I find surprising is the fact that your reply, powertoad5000, was much like CBS's, ludicrous, and retarded .

Could this be the case? Yes, I think it might be???

Anyway, looking at some of the other posts it still seems apparent that people are still ardent that the presence of religion in our nations laws has been absent. So I then turned to the mother document.

The Declairation Of Independence...

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

I also agree with you keenzel,

I believe there are over 50, maybe more than a couple hundred references to the Bible in the constitution.

Also RoadClosed,

I never saw bballad's view's as being liberal. Bballad are you a stinking lowbelly crawling, god killing, socialistic liberal ?

Bballad is taking a liberal stance on this argument sense he fits the criteria for it. Along with a few other people here who refuse to accept the truth.

--Take Care

[Swampy_ finger]

QUOTE:" What do gays think about other gays in jail"
Mike Tysonn

[devilmech]

Originally posted here by allenb1963


Does that constitutional "right" allow you to (pardon the pun) force your opinion down the throats of those who do not agree with it? I think not.

Before you go too far in forming your opinion of me, you should know that I have several relatives who are gay that I love and respect very much. I have yet to see them get "up in arms" over the "gay rights" issue because like rest of us, they realize that they have to play the hand that life has dealt them. You live in a country that was founded on BIBLICAL principles. DEAL WITH IT.

And before you go too far in forming your opinion of me, you should know that I am not "up in arms" over the "gay rights" issue. I also do not get where you think that I am forcing my opinion down your throat. I DO play the hand life has dealt me. That hand might not be so great at times, like the time my father -who's a minister - disowned me upon finding out I was gay, or the time I spent 4 days in the Intensive Care Unit at the local hospital because I was seen perusing the gay magazines at the bookstore. Yes, I've dealt with it. I realize what kind of country I live in, and what it's founded on.

I also realize that until I don't have to fear harassment or injury because of who I am, that there is a need for me to show other people that they have nothing to fear from myself, and the majority of other gay people out there.

So, until that time, I will continue to explain these facts to everyone who shows an interest, SO DEAL WITH IT>.

Originally posted here by THE RADICAL


It states clearly that we are founded as...

'one nation, under god'

Actually, if you do some research on that, the 'under god' bit wasn't added to our Pledge until the 1950's

Originally posted here by THE RADICAL




The Declairation Of Independence...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Where does that reference to the Xtian god anywhere? Hell, all those guys sayin we were created by aliens, by that statement, are endowed by said aliens with their unalienable rights, not some big invisible guy in the sky who gives you a golden house and a lollipop if you say you love him.


Never been big on lollipops myself