Hell- we didn't need any rights anyway, right?

[etruscan]

Tiger Shark ... everyone has his/hers own opinion (oh by the way, before I forget.. I'm originaly from Czech Republic ..now living in NYC... and I was 2 blocks from WTC)... Earlier today I was really angry because it seems that you are defending Bush blindly...

All I know is that for ME, the argument isn't about Rep vs. Dem, Clinton vs Bush, Yugo. vs Iraq, or any of the other vs.'s. The argument is about doing the right thing. We all live on this planet together. We (you and me) and more importantly ppl in power (like Bush) have to consider the entire humanity in their actions. We all have to understand that although it is neccesary to strive economicaly in capitalism, we must act and live socialy in our everyday lives. I get chills every time Bush mentions God, is it really Ok that the most powerfull man on the planet believes that he's on mission from God (look at the suicide bombers) GWB who had 2 DUI's and used cocain (yes i read right wing papers) is a president. a black man in his position would be in jail.

since we beat this thread to dust and i don't wanna get baned all that i can say in conclusion is.. GWB is a protestant white cowboy from Texas... he's too bias, too rich and too pompous to run the most powerfull country in the world. and you can bet that me or those like me will never care if are plowing a guy in the ass, smoke pot, drink in public, run around naked, kill yourself, practice budhism or hack a stupid pussy NYT page and then tell them about it w/out anyone getting hurt...

and by the way just because Saddam is an a-hole doesn't mean we should step down to his level. It would be easier for governemt to cut profiteering deals w/ Saudis and destroy the "so called terrorist region" economicaly .. BUT that' not Texas style ..is it?

[Cyanosis]

Originally posted here by KorpDeath
Although I don't think Lame-o should be a scapegoat for the gov't. I think everybody here needs to take a deep breath and think rationally.

That and you're lucky you're alive now and not when Teddy was the preisdent, you'd be shittin' in your shorts with some of the stuff he did in office.

Well yes, but hey, it would have sucked if we were under the rule of Ganghis Kahn. We are built on the bill of rights, and just because baby Bush had something happen during his presidency, doesnt mean he has the right to strip us of our rights as Americans.

Watch now, right after he is reelected, he will instate the Draft. Watch. 80 Billion dollars to fight the "War on terrorism"? Someone needs to man those guns, and since people are coming to their senses and realizing that blowing up a part of the world wont do any good, Baby bush will need to appeaze the military companies that need fresh 18 year olds to man the flanks and fight in a baren waste land for some fat **** who sits back and makes money off of every American flag sold by the grieving parents because their son came home in a can.

I am angry because I am in that area, I am 18, what Bush decides to do effects me DIRECTLY. Its easier to curse him from home. It wont be so easy to curse him when I am stuck in some hell hole getting grenades thrown at us by people we will never know. And what if I die? What happens to my dreams? What happens to my family and what happens to what I could have done for the world? War is hell, not a profit.

[etruscan]

yeah the draft... let me tell you... i was in the army for 2 years during the communism but then we had the revolution so i didn't have to stay another 2

thank god we were just cleaning tanks and preparing for the next parade for UssR officials...who didn't really care... the entire communist system was vaccum

but how can you expect any young man in this country......listening to Jay-Z ... to go get killed for oil or for "iraki ppl" or whatever

[Cyanosis]

I pay 2.00 at the pump and yet I am supposed to go fight Exxon's war? Let them throw cartoon tigers at it and leave me the hell alone.

[Tiger Shark]

Etruscan: Glad to see that your 2 cents has become worth something.... Your first posts were a little extreme..... Now I think we are seeing the real you......

You said a few things about yourself in your posts, allow me to:-

1. I am British, holding only a British passport.
2. I have lived in various places in the USA for 15 years, (legally, I might add..... Just in case I get accused of something awful.....<s>).
3. I cannot vote because I am not a US citizen, I don't see being British as a disadvantage.
4. I am an Athiest, there is no god or supreme being in my world.
5. I spent 10 years in the military, 5 of which would be considered special forces here and 5 crewing helicopters.
6. I cleaned tanks and scrubbed floors just like you.
7. I believe in doing the _right_ thing.

So, you see, we are very alike in many ways..... I just see things from a different perspective.... Maybe because I am older than you, (that's a guess but I have $5 says I'm right).....

Bush isn't evil, his father wasn't, Reagan wasn't, Nixon wasn't. Neither were any of the democrat presidents inherently evil. Clinton wasn't _evil_. Clinton was/is the worst example of a US president in the history of this great country.... but he wasn't evil per se..... He was self serving, uncaring and had a personal power/financial agenda that caused him to do things that - in the final analysis - were un-American .

But when the dice finally fall it was the actions of Clinton that have caused the actions of Bush..... You cannot get away from that. Thus, the current erosion of privacy and rights, while it is probably unconstitutional, will continue forth until the environment created in the past is fixed, Then, it is the duty of the American people to reverse those laws that remove their constitutional rights or remove the elected officials who refuse to remove them. If they chose not to reverse the laws or are duped by other self serving politicians into not reversing them then they deserve what they get and I will leave this country.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are the finest examples of humans trying to live as humans that history has ever witnessed. Considering the age in which they were written I don't think that you will ever see more finely crafted documents for their fairness and longevity. Many Americans have forgotten what it is to have had such well crafted documents helping them to manage their lives - or they no longer understand or care what those documents stand for. Unfortunately for them the realization will come when the politicians from both sides have flushed them away in their grasp for ultimate power.

That's my 2 cents.... Take it for what it is worth......<s>

[moxnix]

But when the dice finally fall it was the actions of Clinton that have caused the actions of Bush..... You cannot get away from that. Thus, the current erosion of privacy and rights, while it is probably unconstitutional, will continue forth until the environment created in the past is fixed,

Tiger Shark, You are right, but also wrong. The erosion of the Bill of Rights and the loss of inherently American rights, began a long time before Clinton.
It began, not long after the death of JFK. Every administration since then has added to that erosion. Some of the very items that the Revolutionary War were fought over, is now an accepted fact. Double (sometimes triple ) taxation is prevalent. Illegal search and seisure (when in a motor vehical) is now acceptable, where as even 30 years ago it would have caused a major disturbance in our population. John Doe warrents are now issued daily, and some even perpetually, which would have caused outrage 30 years ago. And that is just some off the top of my head.
None of this can be laid on the feet of anyone president or administration. All of them since Kennedy are at fault, even if they just let what was already there slide by.
This is not the same country I spent two tours in Viet Nam for.
And that is my 2 cents (hell used to be when I was a kid I could have gotten a post card [pre-stamped] and a piece of candy for that 2 cents)
Moxnix

[webwurm99]

Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
Yep..... It's all Bush's fault..... He's despicable..... Everything he does is devious and designed to put down his citizens or enhance his and his cronies power abroad........ Anyone want to buy some swampland in Florida or a nice little bridge in New York?

Of course, his predecessor and his wife, (the most dangerous woman in American Politics), were utter angels..... Hell, they never did anything wrong and they care about us. They care about us just the same as Billy Boy cared about the HUD chap at his funeral - coming out laughing with his buddies until he sees the camera and - whoops - there's the tears.

Bush may not be perfect but he's a hell of a sight more genuine than Comrade Klinton and his attack wife Hillary.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
Bush is genuine? One word for you Enron. How about the money that was promised to the victims of 9/11? Where is it?

The thing is we all know Clinton was dishonest but he did a hell of alot for this country, period. The only thing Lil Bush has done is line the pockets of his rich ass friends and family, try and finish daddys war, and play 9/11 as much as possible to get more votes.

Honestly though i dont believe Lil Bush even knows what the patriot act is about. I think hes clueless but has advisors so he just goes with the flow. People tell him how much good this crap will do for "national security" and it gets rubber stamped.

[etruscan]

first of all: being illegal in US isn't awful... no American would ever, EVER, hold a job for $4 per hour cleaning Orthodox Jewish houses, working in sawing factory for 15 hours a day 7 days a week, cleaning Wallmarts and KeyFoods during the night or Tarring the roof of a house in a middle of the summer...

I see the greatest sacrifices in illegal immigrants. Alhough I have a Green Card, I am humbled by seeing the lines of Mexicans on 38 St and 8Ave in Manhattan waiting for someone to pick them up while they are living in dozens in one apartment.

Tiger Shark... point taken!!! BUT

action is action... it is doing, it is making, creating... (I'm not defending Clinton)

what you are saying is that the US gov. has the opportunity to do something totally evil and because they are taking it, it's somehow the previous admin. fault...heh

as far as un-American goes... like i said before... it's not about America; it's about the whole world.. and the world doesn't care about bill's blow job... no one in NY that i met cares about it.. but we do care if someone like Ashcroft (basically a Nazi) is a AG...

American duty... west coast and east coast made America succesful.. but the problem is that the greatest # of ppl are in the middle (protestant, white, middle class) who simply are too isolated from the rest of the word....

i still shiver when i read the constitution and the bill of rights... but Bush is changing it... grammar is volatile and interpretation depends on individual judges...and Bush is appointing them

[webwurm99]

just for the record ive cleaned Wal-marts floors i got 6 dollars an hour i worked 12 hrs per day and got paid for 10 then at about 6:00 am I would rush home so iI could take care of my kids so my girlfriend could go to her crappy ass job. and that wads last year dont tell me **** about immigrants and how hard it is for them to make it I live this crap every day try it then talk!!!!!!!

[PoSer]

Klinton sold us out and now bush is bashed for it... this is how life work in politics. Many time the new comer is blamed for the mistakes of the former…but wait wouldn’t that mean that the later could take credit for the work of the former…if Clinton had spent the resources necessary to catch bin laden then 9/11 would have been prevented, but on the same note if carter had back the Israelis then the hole middle east would be different (do some research before you bash me for that statement) so now what we have left will probably lead to WW3 and I say that for once we are starting **** for a good reason. So neg me if needed but this is one issue that I feel very strongly about as I serve my country everyday of my life and I feel pride about what I do I believe it was once said “that the tree of freedom must be watered in the blood of patriots” so hear me now after serving during the klinton weakness and serving under Bush I feel no fear for my rights and much pity for those that cannot see wear we are headed we will once again be the nation that we were after WWII strong proud and in control of our own destiny.