hydrogen gas fuel cells

[Egaladeist]

" A truck modified to rely heavily on hydrogen gas drove 2,650 miles from California to Washington, D.C., and arrived Friday, according to the Army. "

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/inde...-army-fuel.xml
Hydrogen-cell truck makes X-country trip

" The U.S. Army's Tank Automotive Research Development and Engineering Center, SunLine Transit Agency and Southwest Research Institute retrofitted a standard Class 8 commercial truck to use a fuel cell auxiliary power unit that runs on hydrogen gas to power the engine's electrical functions. "

[Aspman]

Doesn't matter what the fuel is they'll still tax the **** out of it over here.

I have to pay £3.90 for an (Imperial gallon) of diesel last month it was £4.15.
Thats $6.41 per US gallon.

In addition we have road tax, VAT at 17.5% on the purchase of the car, VAT on all servicing, Tax on car insurance and hidden speed cameras round every corner.

I've got to commute about 70 miles a day, there is no public transport option to take and I can't move closer to my work as I work south and my partner works north.

*****s me off big time.

[jinxy]

Hydrogen fuel cell technology has been around for years. It keeps rearing it's head then disapearing

The first fuel cell was built in 1839 by Sir William Grove [1]

Some enterprizing taxi drivers over here were running there cars on used cooking oil. It didn't take long for the tax man to stamp his feet.

[1] Referance: http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/hydrogen.htm

[Egaladeist]

Hi jinxy/Aspman,

I don't think it's really meant as an alternative fuel source,,,they learned that lessen with propane autos...remember when clean-burning propane was going to replace the oil industry...
and yes...fuel cells have been around a long time....but not practical use applications.

I think they're primarily looking at it's military application.

Eg

[Aspman]

I think the Germans (though I'm not sure) have buses running on hydrogen. Not fuel cells just burning it. It was probably a prototype.

I've read that it's relatively easy to build hydrogen burning combustion engines using current technology. It's just the price of producing hydrogen and providing safe storage.

It think H2 engines are probably the way things will go in the end. Wind/wave plants providing the electricity to crack water would need to be used to get round the current evironmental problems.

[jinxy]

remember when clean-burning propane was going to replace the oil industry...

Thats sort of the point I was hinting at. If the fuel cell idea was followed through with, it could have replaced oil long ago. Cars have been converted to run on fuel cell technology before, way back in the 70s (probably earlier than that). There is far to many vested interests involved.

[RoadClosed]

remember when clean-burning propane was going to replace the oil industry...

That would be difficult, considering propane is a byproduct of refined OIL. Ya need oil to make ze propane.

[MadBeaver]

The big problem with Hydrogen-Cells is that it takes more juice to produce the hydrogen than what is produced by the cells. IMO the way to do it is like aspman said. You use hydrogen as a way to store energy from wind mills, solor panels, and any other eco-energy source.

[Egaladeist]

Hi RoadClosed,

That was the point...the oil industry is too involved and diverse...

http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm
ANWR Feature - Products Made From Oil

Heart Valves, Parachutes, Antiseptics, Denture adhesive, Credit cards, Aspirin, Shampoo, Toothbrushes, Toothpaste, Anesthetics, Dentures, Vitamin capsules, Antihistamines, etc...

propane cars were meant to replace gas cars as a cleaner-burning fuel...to combat city polution...but because the oil industry has a piece of everyone's pie, and always has it's eye on it's bottom line, it essentially killed the idea.
Toothpaste is an oil-based product too...but they make alot more money selling gas than they do selling their products to toothpaste companies...they have a vested interest in propane but not as much as they do in gas.

Eg

[Striek]

It takes more juice to charge a battery than what you get out of it. Air conditioners produce more heat than they remove. This is the problem with storing enrgy; some is always lost. With oil, however, the process of converting the energy into a stored and portable form has been done over millions of years, thus saving us humans the work.

Alternative energy sources WILL be the norm sooner or later, make no mistake. There is a finite amount of oil left on this rock. I would imagine that prices will keep giong up until we reach a break-even point where the investment in hydrogen cells will pay off more than the continued use of oil. I fear, however, that this point will arrive too late and a major world energy crisis will result. Imagine all the third world countries who simply don't have the technology to use fuel cells.

As far as converting cars to hydrogen, the world faces two major problems. First and foremost, the world is controlled by oil. IMHO it is really that simple. He who rules the oil, rules. Since oil is a luxury which can only be produced in very specific locations, it is only a matter of military power to take control over that oil, and therefore the world as a whole. So long as the production of a major world energy source remains confined to a few major hot spots, it will always be easy to control. Those with this control therefore have a vested interest in keeping oil as a major energy source. The conversion to hydrogen would mean that, given the technology, anyone, anywhere, could produce the world's main energy source, resulting in a massive global power shift (I would not be surprised if suddenly the world lost interest in the middle east). This shift would also obselesce the entire world oil industry, putting hundreds of millions out of work, turning rich countries into third world squalor, and in general, causing a major economic (and possibly political) revolution of biblical proportions.

Second, where the hell would you fill up? Theroetically, I could buy a kit and build a hydrogen powered car within a few months. Unfortunately, with no place to refill the gas (or hydrogen) tank, this would be rather useless to me. The infrastrcture we have for petroleum has been built over decades. I would imagine that a similar hydrogen infrastructure would take a similarly long time to develop.

But the world will run out of oil sooner or later. Make no mistake about it. It's only a question of when. Despite the wishes of the power elite, and the difficulty in building alternative infrastructure, there is simply no choice in the matter. It will happen.