Quality of the Internet

[IKnowNot]

AngelicKnight

Ya know friends, this is kinda sad...We have a rather deep societal observation in front of us, and instead of discussing it we're arguing the difference between "tool" and "process".

You are on point. But before I discuss this, first and foremost: Again, I respect Mr. Yeo, and agree totally with his sentiments.

Let me briefly say this: I did not attempt to steer this discussion prior to this because this is an open forum. What I said was said, and I stand by it.
I think we can finally agree on this point; Communication is a tool: methods of communication are processes which yield their results.
I do not fault or criticize discussion concerning this issue, especially in this venue.

I did attempt to prompt further discussion on this topic, that I am guilty of.

And yes, the post I referenced was long, necessarily so, IMHO.

For those that did not bother or were too lazy to read in its entirety the posting that I referenced, I will elaborate a bit, and also speak to it.

From What Happened to the Internet? A consequential reflection by Douglas Yeo

There was a time - not so long ago - when those with knowledge were respected for having gained that knowledge and their sharing their knowledge was a gift that was gratefully received by those with less knowledge. This has been the case with teachers and students throughout time and each of us functions in both roles - teacher and student - for most of our lives. Everyone knows more about something than someone else. But each of us always has more to learn.

MsMittens:

I do remember a time when there was respect online, that it was earned through knowledge (and you had to dig deep and long for it); and there was great joy at being able to pass that on to others in their endeavours to dig deep and long. Perhaps I'm feeling cynical these days.

Not cynical, just feeling and reacting to the effects. It is now time that the online world came-to-grips with reality, and we accordingly. Respect must and can only be earned, something that appears in this modern day to be forgotten and discarded. This has to change.

One of mankind's greatest needs is to be needed, to be wanted, to be heard, to be significant.

A, nay, the driving force of the Internet today, along side of monetary gain.

Too much of the evolution of the Internet has been left to acquisition of monetary gain and proliferation of common sentiment, ( is this former V.P. Gore’s true legacy? )
Integrity, knowledge, and honor have been left by the way side.

My intention of bringing attention to the posting sited was to bring to this forum the insightfulness of an extraordinary individual.

I came to realize a long time ago that although people view the world in vastly different ways, I believe that the world would be a much greater place if everyone could view it from the perspective of an artist’s and teacher’s perspective. That is my goal, to help make this come true ( thus my sig )

Edit:
BTW, Semper Fi !!

[nihil]

IKnowNot,

I think we can finally agree on this point; Communication is a tool: methods of communication are processes which yield their results.

I strongly disagree with that, as I feel that you have it the wrong way round ( a 180)

As I see it, the hierarchy is thus:

Environments (Universes)
Objectives
Processes
Procedures
Tools

So, I ask myself the question "what is the Internet?".............. I would say that it is an "environment"............ of itself it is not capable of right or wrong, good or evil, or of any human attributes. It is "just there", rather like planet Earth.............

Now, people use the Internet for a variety of reasons............ these I would call "objectives"

The way in which they do this, I would describe as "processes", which are detailed by, or sub-divided into "procedures"

At the bottom of the food chain we have the mindless "tools" which just do whatever you make them.

That leads me to my final premise (for this post):

"Tools neither evoke nor provoke responses" ............... "actions", "processes". "events" do that".

Communication can take many forms, that is, use many tools...........example:

1. I phone you and invite you to come out for a beer.
2. I project an 84mm mortar round at your position.

Semper Fi

[Simplicity]

To add to what AngelicKnight quoted, a large number of political documents and correspondence are stored virtually. The idea of a paper trail is being lost among the speed and ease of an e-mail. The effects are quite similar to that of the Internet material disappearing, but even the information that is not accessible on the Internet is affected merely by the virtualization of, well, almost everything. Events leading up to larger events will be lost. The days of "so-and-so sent a letter to so-and-so which led to such-a-conflict" are being lost.

[Ouroboros]

To add to what AngelicKnight quoted, a large number of political documents and correspondence are stored virtually. The idea of a paper trail is being lost among the speed and ease of an e-mail. The effects are quite similar to that of the Internet material disappearing, but even the information that is not accessible on the Internet is affected merely by the virtualization of, well, almost everything. Events leading up to larger events will be lost. The days of "so-and-so sent a letter to so-and-so which led to such-a-conflict" are being lost.

Not really, considering the time before the "computerization" of the world. You still have your memory, correct? The need for a 'paper trail' is only important in legal matters, IMO. For time out of mind, traditions, histories, and legends have been passed as oral traditions and stories, including build-ups to enormous events. What has changed is the political polarization of EVERY event, and the subsequent uproar about them. Personally, I still take account of every important part of my life (and that includes 'news' events), and recount them all on occasion. If we allow our lives to be 'bookmarked' and eventually forgotten because we slip into this disposable society mindset, we are doing ourselves a great disservice.

O

[nihil]

Well,

The internet is a child of this disposable society. It is temporary and ephemeral, unless individuals choose otherwise.

But there is nothing new there?.............. books are lost and go out of publication........magazines, newspapers, films, radio and TV shows likewise.

Telegrams, telexes, facsimiles, letters, postcards, ............... all have their sell by dates?

What matters is do you care? and if so, what are you going to do about it?

Where are the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? the Faros of Alexandria, the Colossus of Rhodes?............... all were wonders of the Ancient World, yet are utterly lost.

The great American philosopher George Santayana made what I would call a very telling observation, when he said that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat the past.

The internet is nothing special, and nothing worth preserving per se. Like all communications environments it will evolve with technology and social forces. The question really has to be about the material content?

The only danger that I see is that some things might get lost because nobody bothers to preserve them in a more permanent way.

However, given that humanity seems hell bent on denuding and destroying its environment, who gives a rodent's rectum about the internet?

EDIT: Here is one that I did save a few classics out of:

http://www.satirewire.com/index.shtml

For example:

http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/australia.shtml

That is almost 6 years old

[Ouroboros]

Well,

The internet is a child of this disposable society. It is temporary and ephemeral, unless individuals choose otherwise.

But there is nothing new there?.............. books are lost and go out of publication........magazines, newspapers, films, radio and TV shows likewise.

Telegrams, telexes, facsimiles, letters, postcards, ............... all have their sell by dates?

What matters is do you care? and if so, what are you going to do about it?

Where are the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? the Faros of Alexandria, the Colossus of Rhodes?............... all were wonders of the Ancient World, yet are utterly lost.

However, given that humanity seems hell bent on denuding and destroying its environment, who gives a rodent's rectum about the internet?

I am of the "get the hell off of my lawn" variety of people. Where we have been is a precursur (sp?) to where we are now. It is unfortunate that the younger members don't appreciate a wide view of human history, but would rather confine themselves to a more 'modern' history in regards to architecture, politics, and worldview.

Colossus of Rhodes, FTW.

O

[cdkj]

I would have to agree with nihil on it being a process. Communication focuses on how people produce and process messages, and how their message options and decisions affect others' thoughts, attitudes, and behaviors.Communication Tools are IM,email.etc.

[MURACU]

I am sure this conversation was being held when Guttenburg tried to destroy the power of the clergy by allowing everyone to have a printed copy of the bible. I expect the internet to have less of an effect than the printing press as it is just the logical extension of radio and television.