Let the finger pointing begin

[westin]

I remember that, but I think it was "air traffic control" rather than autopilot

Heh. That makes more sense. :-P

[nihil]

There is going to be a lot of finger pointing here, but I don't believe that computer systems were at fault................

People can generally tell how things are running based purely on the look and sound of the machines they're working on. The people in little comfortable booths with computers are generally lead-men which well... lets put it this way, some are actually out there helping while others are in their booths.

That is oh so true!

The guys had several "kicks" before the big one................they were just good little company bunnies looking for their bonus..............11 guys died, and that should not have happened!!!

I do remember 31/12 at 24.00 hrs..............so I am about 120 feet in the air dipping this cyclohexane tank..............the company guy says "keep low boss, or they will see you from the control tower"..............I says "why would that be a problem, I'm the bloody auditor!"

"Ah! we're supposed to wear breathing apparatus"...................

John Wayne has been dead for several years now...........time for a culture shift?

I am afraid that the oil industry has this "gung-ho" macho image which seems to suck its workers in?

[gore]

I'm with the lawsuit. Bout time someone calls them out on all those "leaks" LOL OMG..... The Ocean is supposed to be blue and they turn it black with oil, which makes that funny again because the original BSOD was "Black Screen of Death" and for all the sea creatures down there, THAT'S WHAT THEY SEE! .... Man, I should have read this earlier, I've had a screwed up week. Well, two really.

Remember the good old days when Microsoft had on their web site for Windows NT that you should reboot every 6 weeks to "Clear out all Memory Leaks" ? And then they took it down when Linux got to be a real competition to it?

I'm wondering which version they had. Then again, I don't care, it's funny. They're blamed everything from parts to lazy cheap Corporate people, all of which were probably true. But this, WOW! "Sir, the machine stopping us from destroying the Ocean is running Windows and you told me to ignore that jerk on AO that Windows shouldn't be trusted on anything critical what do I do?"....*Phone call to Microsoft later* "Reinstall the ****ing OS!?!?!? We CAN'T!"....

I've had to call them ONCE. I've called Microsoft, ONCE. And that is indeed what I was told, and it was about a year and a half ago.

[nihil]

Hmmmmm,

because the original BSOD was "Black Screen of Death"

Those were the days of "green screen" (or orange), but they were monochromatic (B & W) rather than colour. I honestly cannot remember, but did you get the little blinking cursor in the very top left of your screen?

Remember the good old days when Microsoft had on their web site for Windows NT that you should reboot every 6 weeks to "Clear out all Memory Leaks" ?

Windows NT (4.0) was quite good at handling that as I recall............just M$s partners in crime, who wrote the apps, were not.

This is not a computer issue..............that kind of safety equipment works on direct links through control channels running embedded systems at best. Basically unmanned fire and burglar alarms. The BOP failed............they knew it was defective and leaked...........but they went onwards?

Hell, no more than 6 months earlier they were told to stop drilling because the BOP failed its test. This was at 10,000 psi................so they re-tested at 6,500 psi and it passed......... that's why the FEDs are in there

I've had to call them ONCE. I've called Microsoft, ONCE. And that is indeed what I was told, and it was about a year and a half ago.

I have called them 4 times in my life...............3x to report bugs and once to scrounge a copy of DOS 3.3 on 5.25" floppies. That came next day, complete with manual..............(no charge) I guess that is why I don't knock Microsoft........... they still have a few good people left?

Cheers

EDIT:

There are currently around 27,000 abandoned oil bores in the Gulf of Mexico............the other week a tugboat hit one............I saw the pictures.........brown garbage spewing at least 100 feet in the air....several are leaking all the time............time for Federal legislation here?............. and you know how much I hate "Nanny State" ?

The real problem is that nobody monitors them; and once the guys have given up on the well they just don't care?.............where is the responsibility?

[morganlefay]

As stated previously...a poor workman blames his tools....only an idiot would blame the OS.

The machine was unstable...not due to the OS...but to the poor configuration of the machine...and or a hardware issue. The machine was regularly crashing 6 weeks before the disaster .....somebody dropped the ball...and it wasnt MS.

Oh and BTW...I regularly work with MS...and am currently using their professional services for an implementation and migration of a legacy database.

To use a blanket statement like they advised you to reinstall the OS shows your total lack of experience working with their product and arrogance of youth.

I have had very good experiences with their server applications support...plus they have excellent resources such as their newsgroups and KB.

MLF

[nihil]

Well, if the evidence given at the hearing was correct that computer was used to control and monitor drilling.

From what I can gather they were capping off the well and were due to leave the site in a few hours. That means they had finished drilling and that computer wasn't doing anything.

I must say that I find it strange that they didn't just replace it?.............if it were in any way critical I am sure that they would have. It is also odd that they sent an electrical engineer rather than an IT person to look at it?

[morganlefay]

well from my experience working with engineers a several different sites....

they know everything

MLF

[nihil]

Been there!

I guess someone thought that if they got an IT guy in then the answer would be "replace" or "reinstall and reconfigure", which would have cost them drilling time.

It is obvious that someone there knew how to reboot the thing, and that someone decided to go with that rather than get it fixed?

Given that the operation was costing $42,000 an hour, you would have thought they would have had a redundant machine ready to take over?

I don't know who the project manager was but they certainly need to brush up on their business continuity and contingency planning.

[SnugglesTheBear]

The machine was unstable...not due to the OS...but to the poor configuration of the machine...and or a hardware issue.

Don't forget poor maintenance as well!

To use a blanket statement like they advised you to reinstall the OS shows your total lack of experience working with their product and arrogance of youth.

harsh morgan.... ouch >.<
Gore does have a point though, *nix is better =P but that is just my opinion. I have worked on and with m$ products and they typically have a very convoluted design honestly. Just think about the way their GUI is laid out. If you have to go 5 or 6 pop up windows deep by constantly clicking the next "advanced settings" button to finally change one configuration, (this was a VPN configuration setting, I wanted to set up a split tunnel connection) then something is wrong with your GUI design.... terribly wrong. I find this is how Microsoft is with all their products, services, and support. You can get what you want, you just have to weed through incredibly redundant crap.

[gore]

Pfft ouch nothing, I'll simply ask what I did about 7 years ago something I saw in "20 Years of Berkeley Unix" which made me wonder who would answer what:

MLF, in the 70s in Germany, they were using Unix on Kidney Dialysis Machines. If your life was truly at risk BECAUSE OF THE OS, not the software, would you REALLY tell the Doctor you're OK with the Windows machine?

Think about that, if it turns Blue, so do you.


EDIT:

Arrogance? Me calling them and Habib telling me he can't help and to reinstall the OS is MY fault? Wow, do you work for Microsoft? If some guy or girl answers the phone and tells me the issue, which, I have not only explained, and given every detail about, can't help me, and say I have to reinstall.... Yea, totally my fault. Pffft. Lack of experience my ass. Some moron who managed to find the start menu and not drool on the machine enough to kill it or him (An MCSE) is an idiot and I'M to blame? Right.

As for workman and tools; If someone hands me a broken hammer and I can't pound a nail, I'm not an idiot, I'm certified for tech support at Microsoft apparently.

And I just realized the word play in that... You seem to make a broken hammer work fine, would it be from those "Pound Head Here" signs I used to see a few years ago when the Hospital I was in was using Windows NT? I mean, after all, being handed a broken hammer and being told to pound a nail isn't going to work unless you "really use your head" as you so rudely put it, but, I, being one of those "Arrogant Unix Bastards" would probably think the idiot is the one pounding the nail with their forehead instead of a working hammer.