Ok been out here a few years see all you fresh faced young people I do admire so much. Fact is though I begain my journey out here when a program was run with punch cards. So I find myself at the end of this youthful knowledge you all have, cause those punch cards gave you a better edu then I had. So we turn to those wonderful hunks of papers those degrees, I recall when people looke at Novell stuff and said OK to the vendor we can work with it let us tweak it and we did and they came up with the CNE, M$ not to be out done came up with the MSCE, MSP, all their stuff none would have been had if it were not for the actual workers with college degrees made theor crap work. Ok rant over point is we now have Linux so what cert can be issued? LCP (Lunix Certified Profissional), or LCNE (Linux Certified Network Engineer) and then face the fact that your degree means nothing after you spend 20 years to re-pay the loans, cause you do not have some private sector company you pay bug bucks to (also a loan to repay) to get a job. Facts is Industry the software industry has undermined this country big time costing billions in faulty products that the people they sell to become sold on the idea no one knows about their product unless the ceretify them. Me I am for not some private secotor for profit corp but a public agency where the fees for testing support the program, not a hunk of paper from a company saying I know what I do. Got a BS joke in my day was a B*ll S**t degree to face the world in computer science. No science to it now days exploited programmers no job security and the bottom line are the share holders profit. Fact is over 40 would not waste my time for another hunk of paper much less from M$ so I sit look over openings all of you will sit where I do one day. Good luck seems my generation screwed up.