I'm trying to catch up on some of these points ( never discuss politics or religion by the way )
tonybradley:
First, I think I am getting senile, I thought a while ago I read that you were a staunch Democrat, and a contributor to the Democratic party. Must have been someone else I guess.

Anyway, I think you did make some VERY valid statements, probably the most sense so far ( except for Tiger Shark ):
I don't like the government being allowed to do things that circumvent the Constitution or our laws in the name of national security. Too much is going on in secret behind closed doors in the name of national security. Too many agendas that have nothing to do with national security are being stamped "national security" and put on the express lane through congress in back rooms where we the people and the press don't get to have any say- because its "national security".

I am all for having national security and having the government do what they need to do to ensure it, but you can't just hijack the whole government system and bypass the checks and balances that have kept things balanced for over 200 years and automatically assume that just because a politician says something is a "national security" issue that it should automatically get the green light.

They are supposed to represent "we the people" and I think they have an obligation to keep us informed of what they are doing and why. Some things must be kept secret in the interest of national security- but we need someone to mediate that label and use a little more discretion regarding which actions and legislation are worthy of that treatment.
moxnix
Illegal search and seisure (when in a motor vehical) is now acceptable, where as even 30 years ago it would have caused a major disturbance in our population.
This is totally untrue. If fact, the pendulum has swung the other way. There has been exceptions for the warrant requirement for the automobile because of its mobility, etc. for years and years, but some states are now taking it upon themselves to place limits on these searches. This has been prompted by an unbalanced number of arrests of minorities being found to have contraband in their vehicles. ( no comment on this )

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Politicians understand something that is missed by many. That is that people forget !! For the most part, people understand the NOW. Like it or not, Clinton rode on the planning of Bush Sr. as far as the economy goes, rode it into a second term. By the time Bush Jr. took office, the policies of the previous administration had taken root and severely crippled the economic well being of the nation. I am not saying that Bush Jr.'s policies are good, just that he inherited a mess, and it will take years to correct ( if he does it right ). And who knows who wil be president when that time comes.

tonybradley,
We'll go down a whole new road about whether or not the right to bear arms was really intended the way the NRA professes.
You were correct not to touch this one. In all the statistics concerning deaths involving firearms did they break it down to legal and illegally obtained firearms??

Maybe I should add this to my profile, but I am a certified NRA Pistol instructor. Best not to touch this one. If you want to, first check out the statics available and what they actually mean. Then the legislation that was past in Jersey by the Democratic Governor concerning gun control and technology that has not even been invented yet!!! Also, search the news archives about the deals he allegedly made with the NRA and then reneged on as soon as he won the election.

I am very pleased to see the opinions of people from outside the U.S. Concerning this topic. I personally would never neg someone for speaking their mind on a topic such as this ( unless they disagreed with me ). Truthfully, I think these opinions are important, and may indeed open some eyes.

I still go stand by my original post,
It has been my observation that the laws sway like a pendulum. The "Patriot Act" is just the pendulum swinging one way, as does society, in response to specific issues which were caused by the pendulum being too far the other way. Too bad we can't find the middle ground and stick to it !!