Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs in the needed quantities?

[Moira]

Good grief, this thread has grown since I last saw it

People can easily raise their tolerance to take LD50 doses and hardly feel them. The danger lies in coming off the stuff for a while, not realising your tolerance drops swiftly, and OD'ing on the same dose you'd hardly have felt a week ago.

True, 8mg of codeine phos is hardly (well not at all) felt. Dihydrocodeine isn't codeine phosphate, it's rather like the UK equivalent of vicodin, but there isn't the tylenol/paracetamol/acetamorphin (sp) content as a "filler". Dihydrocodeine is pure dihydrocodeine tartrate, ie hydrodocone to all intents and purposes. We can buy tablets that contain 8mg codeine phos or even 8mg dihydrocodeine OTC here, but they all contain substantial doses of paracetamol. The reason dihydrocodeine can become such a problem is that there is nothing to stop you taking large amounts - if it had some paracetamol (tylenol) in, then there'd be a natural barrier to overdoing it, ie you wouldn't want to risk an overdose. Yes, you can attempt to get rid of the tylenol content in tablets that contain both substances, but you're rather playing with fire - not something I'd try because I would never be certain it had worked. I don't have the equipment to do gas chromatography / mass spectrometry tests.

gore, tricyclic antidepressants have actually worked very well for me on the occasions I've needed them. And I've experienced those "two days of hell" believe me. I have to take painkillers for rheumatoid arthritis, and after a flare up subsides, I have on occasion just stopped dihydrocodeine more or less stone dead - and it's not funny.

LD50 for dihydrocodeine is 500 mg (the stuff is gauged in higher measurements than vidocin, ie one tablet contains 30mg), though some people would put that nearer 400 mg. Like I said though, tolerance can build to ridiculously high levels, as it can with benzos - which is why I try to take as little as possible, as it only wastes the precious stuff

As I said all along, the biggest problem with opiate use is wanting more. I find it incredibly addictive, whereas I don't think whatever circumstances I found myself in, I would ever become an alcoholic. I just don't like hangovers.

In the UK we used to be able to buy codeine cough linctus, and also Dr Collis Brown, but nowadays that's been stopped. The cough medicine you can get OTC contains pseudo codeine (ie stuff that isn't actually codeine at all, and is proportionately useless). Codeine linctus actually worked but you'd need a script for it now.

Yes, it's shocking how people in real need often find themselves almost criminalized for wanting dihydrocodeine or other strong pain medication. I don't think that addiction is the most important consideration in either termanilly ill patients or anyone in chronic/severe pain. Fortunately, I have a doctor who agrees with me. He's told me that he hates to hear his receptionists tell anyone ringing in for a repeat prescription, that their medication "isn't due". His view is, if they've rung up to request it, then they need it, and whether or not it's due doesn't come into it.

Interesting to see the mention of codeine to cure a headache. A frequent side effect of codeine in large doses is a "rebound headache" and I've experienced on quite a number of occasions a migraine as a result of taking dihydrocodeine for joint pain.

Edit I will upload an interesting video by Penn and Teller, called Bullshit - The War on Drugs. It does last 29 minutes but is well worth watching. I'll post the link when I have it, as it will take some time to upload.