thanks bimmer, but I did see that post and that's why I went with sygate. Those files were not left on my system. I did find though that the truevector and mini log where looking for files only after I used norton win doctor. I searched out the files and deleted them. Still to no avail I could connect to my ISP, have them verify it, but could not communicate, not even ping. I reinstalled zone and whalla! Oh, and I did a norton uninstall which does a pretty good job of locating all associate files.