Originally posted here by Alcatraz
People follow leaders. Look how many followed Hitler in World War II. I doubt all those thousands believed in what they were doing, and if they did, I don't think they realized it. And even if that, I don't think they thought they had much choice.
Very true, however allowing the desire to follow a leader to override your ethics, morals, and beliefs is a very bad thing. What religion has said that it's ok to kill some people? I don't recall those teachings anywhere, but then again, I haven't experienced all of the world's religions...

I totally agree! But these things happen, and then the religion is blamed for the actions of those who disgraced it. If you don't want to like something, as many people choose to dislike Christianity and such, its easy to sieze an example like the crusades and say, "This is Christianity." Well it's not, and the people who say that are just hiding behind an illusion.
That's terribly amusing. You're saying that a group of 'officials' of a religion condoning a war as long as it's in the 'name of all that's good and pure' ([insert religion here]) doesn't count as a holy war and should not be held against said religion?

I'm sorry, I fundamentally disagree with that argument. Christianity as a whole endorsed the crusades. If it were simply a small group of people speaking for a whole religion (as many terrorists are) then maybe I could see your point. Unfortunately in Christianity's case, a very large majority were in favour of 'retaking the birthplace of Christ' by force.

I do agree that people who simply say "This is christianity" and point out the Crusades, the Inquisition, WW II, etc., are all very silly, because there is more to every religion than just that. Rather unfortunately christianity created an environment where those who sought political power were able to obtain it quite easily, and this lead to a lot of bloodshed. I'm certain that Christianity was responsible for the 'dark ages', and indeed the Catholic church was responsible for stunting scientific achievement for many hundreds of years.
It became all too easy for those in power to say "in the name of god, we should vanquish the evil enemy <insert name here>". Look at Middle Ages Europe; Wars were a daily occurance, and most, if not all, had the full support of the churches.

Christianity did not order the crusades to happen, men did. The religion was simply there as justification, and in my view, when people let religion be their justification for war, they are already lost.

Face it: Christianity has been used as the justification for many horrific acts, and when someone looks at the bad that's gone on in the name of Christianity, it's quite easy to see that it's all bad. I'm sure after September 11th quite a few people felt the same about Muslims. I've heard many people who were normally sane, intelligent people break down and become racist bigoted Anti-Muslims since 09/11, and it pains me to see people blame a religion where it's obvious a small group was to blame.

Originally Posted by PhirePhreak:
Interesting... people aruge with me but not with Alcatraz...
I didn't disagree with what he said until now. Even now, I don't fundamentally disagree with what he's saying, I'm just clarifying things a bit...