Existance

[Matty_Cross]

As I sit here, in my pitiful existance, reading fortune as I usually do *linux does have such fun games*... I does come across this interesting quote, spewed forth from the mouth of this wonderful toy...

A man said to the Universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the Universe,
"the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane

Now, last night, myself and a few peoples got very drunk, and discussed many things, such as love, religion and *shudder* politics... all of which, for some reason *not sure why*, verged on the topic of humans...
me with my view that human kind is nothing special, that we are all just a bunch of self serving fools, blinding ourselves with our delusions of self importance, causing human kind to walk around with an bart simpson attitude *I AM SO GREAT, I AM SO GREAT, EVERYBODY LOVES ME, I AM SO GREAT* banging our proverbial pots and pans....

and conversely, we had the oposition, who was quite disgusted by my outlook on life, the universe and everything... stating that we are indeed 'special', that there is some greater purpose in life *although they weren't able to tell me why they believed in this greater purpose..*.. that there was something we were intended to do...

but my problem with this is that, if I am to conform to such a belief, that a greater power has a purpose for me.... something I must acomplish in my life time... does that not make me a puppet.. .does it not make you a puppet?

I'm starting to ramble, so I'll just get to the damn point...

Do you believe.. that your existence... is meaningful?

[thesecretfire]

It has meaning because you live in it, you exist in it. It is up to you, not others to decide wether or notyour life "has meaning". You might look at someone who seems to be "wasting their life", but if they find meaning in what they do, isn't that enough? I think it is, I mean, you don't have to cure a disease affecting millions to have a meaningful life.

[Matty_Cross]

That's a very good answer secretfire...

I should've made my question a wee bit clearer... I was asking whether you *me points into the crowd* find your existance to be meaningful...

I see people every day, who when you ask how they are, they say still alive *in a none too happy tone* or *my personal favourite* I'm awake, what more do you want....

in the group I was with that night, I noticed that of all the people who were there, 1 of them believed that their existance had a meaning....

What I'm trying to ask is that do you feel that you have a purpose, that you actions will actually mean something, that people will notice the things you've said, done and accomplished in your incredibly short lifespan...

I find that personally, I have none of these things... I don't believe that being human makes me special, if I was a mouse, I'd be the same.... I know that when I expire, like meat left out in the sun, never reaching my 'best before date'.. that it will have amounted to nothing... all the dedication one puts into what they percieve to be their purpose in life, amounts to nothing when ol' Grimmy comes and takes you to see the boss....

I was really wondering... how many other people feel this way? and their reasons for such feelings...

[hot_ice]

Well, I don't really believe that there is someone of a greater power looking down on us to make sure we do what they want. I think it's just life and is evolving slowly in no planned order. We exist and we live our lives how we want them, affected by what we do and what other people do, I don't think it has been previously planned.

I watched 60 Minutes on TV just about 30 minutes ago and they were talking about the risk of meteorites wiping out millions of people. Anyway, when they said how billions of years ago, the dinasours (and nearly all other life forms) were all wiped out by a meteor, it made me think. Was life evolving in the wrong way, so someone of greater power said, this isn't what I had planned, I'll erase it all and start again, see what happens? Hmmm...it's interesting, but I mostly thing that a meteor simply hit earth by chance and that it had nothing to do with the supernatural, or some higher power or anything like that.

I somewhat believe that EVERYTHING happens for a reason. Let me give you an example.

Example: When I first got my car (about one year ago), I parked it at uni, came back and it was getting towed away. It got taken to the council car pound and to cut a long story short, it cost me $330 altogether. Anyways, to make myself less pissed off and upset, I just said to myself that it happened for a reason, such as, maybe if I had gone home (rather then to the council to pick up my car) I would have had a car accident or something. So I always try to put a positive spin on it.

Well, I dunno if that had anything to do with your topic Matty, but aw well, I blabber on a bit, don't mind me.

I'll just end it here, I forgot what the topic was...

Greg

[rcgreen]

This debate seems to come out of the
theory of evolution. When Darwin first
published his theory, Christian dogma was
the unstated assumption behind most
people's view of their existence.

The debate broke out immediately,
with critics saying "If you teach people
that they evolved by random chance,
they will draw the conclusion that life
has no meaning. It is a philosophy
of despair."

That's my opinion. Your feeling that your
life "has no meaning" is a product of your
education in evolutionary dogma.

[detector]

- If one thinks he is worthless and nothing but a fancy blob of advanced protoplasm + time and luck then one is going to act out that belief system.
rcgreen - you said it better anyway.

[chsh]

Interesting discussion Matty!

I'm sort of on the fence on this one, and my answer would swing either way depending on how I interpret your use of the word 'special'.

They way I see it is that I'm here, and if I spend all my time worrying about whether or not I'm doing something correctly, I'm never going to actually do anything productive. I live, I experience, I try to help others when I can, and I try and CREATE a meaning for my life. I personally don't think that any meaning is just handed down to you making you 'special' (in a sense). I think that a meaning for my life will come from my living it, not from my believing that I'm special.

Originally posted here by hot_ice
I watched 60 Minutes on TV just about 30 minutes ago and they were talking about the risk of meteorites wiping out millions of people. Anyway, when they said how billions of years ago, the dinasours (and nearly all other life forms) were all wiped out by a meteor, it made me think.

That is factually false. Maybe nearly all LAND-BASED life was wiped out (which it wasn't btw), but water life would have been far less affected and there is far more of that than there is land-based life.

[Alcatraz]

I think, scientifically, we do have a purpose. Why else would we have evolved? Survival is the purpose of all life forms, but there's not really a logical reason for that. I mean, who cares if there isn't, wasn't, and never will be life?

But Matty, that wasn't really your question, was it. It's do humans have a purpose, one that's different from other animals. I think we do, why else would we have the mental capacity that we do? But what is that purpose? Damned, if I know...

[thesecretfire]

Originally posted here by rcgreen
[B] "If you teach people
that they evolved by random chance,
they will draw the conclusion that life
has no meaning. It is a philosophy
of despair."

Dispair? If everything is happening for a reason, then it leaves limited possibilities. If god exists, then it means that there is always something controlling life, making it flow one way or another. Take away god, and the universe becomes filled with infinite possibilities, an inconceivable number of paths and come into existance and die before anyone knows that they're there.

Why are you here? Who are you? Interesting questions, because it's impossible to give a good answer. God is many people's answer to the question of who and why, but for me, this wasn't enough. Although "Why not?" provides an interesting line of thought, you may never be able to answer why. The search can make you a better person, just as religion can, and I think that this, at least, is enough of a reason to try.

[preacherman481]

Yes, Matty, I feel my Christian faith gives my life meaning. The Bible teaches that we are on earth to glorify God and to enjoy him. I believe (based on the Bible's teachings) that God created us to have fellowship with him. One day when the Lord Jesus Christ returns, those who have placed our faith in him will be able to most fully understand and enjoy the purpose we were created for. To me, being a Christian give my life meaning because I can see where it all began (God's creation) and where it's all headed (the Second Coming and the resurrection).